Bad Driver? In Debt? Proposed NYC Law Would Ban You From Owning a Gun

[oneshooter]

Under proposed revisions to the police department's handgun, rifle and shotgun permit procedures, the NYPD can reject gun license applicants for a number of reasons, including:
If they have been arrested or convicted of almost any "violation," in any state; having a "poor driving history"; having been fired for "circumstances that demonstrate lack of good judgment"; having "failed to pay legally required debts"; being deemed to lack "good moral character"; or if any other information demonstrates "other good cause for the denial of the permit."

"Now the fees are going to be much less and they're going to have a relationship to the amount of administrative costs that are involved, and in that way it will withstand the Constitution and the court challenge that most people expect will be coming down the road," Vallone told FoxNews.com.
The current $340 fee for all pistol licenses would be lowered to $70 for a premises license and $110 for a carry license. Rifle and shotgun permits would drop from $140 to $65. Costs for license renewals would also be significantly reduced.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/10/23/nyc-proposal-renders-bad-drivers-debtors-unfit-guns/

Lower fees good, the rest is begging a lawsuit.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

[Pavulon]

1. The rest is a start to the bribe you have to pay to get the permit

or if you are black or otherwise non-white, you are just fucked..

Maybe they can do a full ssbi background check, poly, ask your 8th grade teacher if you ditched class...

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NewMoonTherian]

3. What's with the legislative non sequiturs lately?

I'm hearing about a proposal here in Oklahoma to revoke hunting licenses and season tickets to our college football games for not having health insurance. It's getting really wild out there.

[SteveM]

21. "You vill adhe-r-r-e to Corporate Order!" (slaps crop on boot) "Vunderstand?"

I've been an incorrigible uninsured professional leftist for years, now. Jeez, if I could afford health insurance at 62, I would move to Costa Rica. Meantime, I'll still get my deer in Texas or that foreign pretender state, Florida.

[spin]

4. The average Joe will not be able to own a gun but celebrities already can ...

Lifestyles of the rich and packin': High-profile celebrities seeking gun permits on the rise
Monday, September 27th 2010, 4:00 AM



Never fear J.Lo - your husband Marc Anthony is one of dozens of celebrities authorized to carry a concealed weapon in New York City.


David Wright is often armed with a bat - and he has a permit to keep a gun in his penthouse.


Robert De Niro carries a gun in the movies, and he's licensed to carry one in real life.


J.Lo and her 2-year-old twins can rest easy at night: Daddy is packing heat.

Singer Marc Anthony is one of dozens of celebs, millionaires and high-profile athletes authorized to carry a concealed weapon in the city, records show.

And the number of A-listers who have guns is growing.

"We have seen an increase in celebs seeking their own permits," said John Skylar Chambers, a lawyer who has helped New Yorkers get gun permits for more than 20 years.

***snip***

Other big names licensed to carry a gun include actor Robert De Niro, shock jock Howard Stern and supermarket mogul John Catsimatidis. Billionaire Donald Trump and his son, Donald Jr.; celebrity lawyer David Breitbart, and artificial-heart inventor Robert Jarvik can also carry steel, police records reveal.

Mets third-baseman David Wright has a permit to keep a gun in his city penthouse. Martha Stewart's daughter, radio host Alexis Stewart, also has a permit.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/09/27/2010-09-27_celebrities_seeking_pistol_permits_on_the_rise_in_the_city_lifestyles_of_rich_n_.html#ixzz13cY2CeAT

[SteveM]

22. Some say race isn't the issue. I say it's class. Which correlates to?

Another one of those "hidden GOP memes" which creates "race" as an issue, to do a "wedgie" on progressives, cleverly reverse arguments, and everything? ...god, that rope was good.

[Remmah2]

5. How about failing to pick up after my dog?

He is an assault dog after all.

[Glassunion]

7. Assault dog?

[Callisto32]

6. The "premesis license" eh?

Sounds like that flies in the face of Heller/McDonald.

[one-eyed fat man]

8. Here’s what the proposed rules say, in relevant part:

§ 3–03 Grounds for Denial of Permit. An application for a rifle/shotgun permit may be denied for lack of good moral character or other good cause, pursuant to section 10–303 of the Administrative Code, based on the following reasons:

(a) The applicant has been arrested, indicted or convicted for (any) a crime or violation except minor traffic violations, in any (jurisdiction,) federal, state or local jurisdiction....

(g) The applicant has a history of one or more incidents of domestic violence (note that this doesn’t require a conviction or even a finding by a court by a preponderance of the evidence, just presumably the administrative officials’ own evaluation).

(h) The applicant has a poor driving history, has multiple driver license suspensions or has been declared a scofflaw by the New York State Department of Motor Vehicles....

(j) The applicant has been terminated from employment under circumstances that demonstrate lack of good judgment or lack of good moral character. (There goes Eliot Spitzer)

(k) The applicant has demonstrated an inability to safely store firearms, such as through a history of lost/stolen firearms.

(l) The applicant has failed to pay legally required debts such as child support, taxes, fines or penalties imposed by governmental authorities....(about that overdue library book)

(n) Other information demonstrates an unwillingness to abide by the law, a lack of candor towards lawful authorities, a lack of concern for the safety of oneself and/or other persons and/or for public safety, and/or other good cause for the denial of the permit.

In evaluating incidents or circumstances pursuant to this section, the License Division shall consider all relevant factors, including but not limited to the number, recency and severity of incidents and the outcome of any judicial or administrative proceedings.

Just start at the top. Any arrest will do. No conviction required. Even if you are found not guilty at trial you can be disqualified because you had been arrested. If that and Helmke's adulation don't qualify as chillingly Orwellian what does?

* parenthetical comments added

[shadowrider]

16. We've always been at war with Oceania n/t

[SteveM]

23. And they should add (o) for "Odor, auto-induced, in the State's police agencies."

[friendly_iconoclast]

9. You can see the proposed rule changes for yourself at:

http://www.nyc.gov/nycrules

Warning- it is in *.pdf format, so you will need a reader

[Glassunion]

10. FTS! nt

[Glassunion]

11. I just read the full text. Some questions.

So besides the fact that you would be ineligible if you were arrested without a conviction whatsoever. Which is complete bullshit.

5-10 (b) The applicant has been other than honorably discharged from the Armed Forces of this country.
Would this include administrative discharges?

5-10 (c) The applicant has or is reasonably believed to have a disability or condition that may affect the ability to safely possess or use a handgun, including but not limited to alcoholism, drug use or mental illness.
Define "reasonably believed". Would this mean that if I wear a "legalize"(I would not) t-shirt when I apply for my permit that I could be denied?

5-10 (h) The applicant has a poor driving history, has multiple driver license suspensions or has been declared a scofflaw by the New York State Department of Motor Vehicles.
Where is the line? 1 speeding ticket... 10 speeding tickets?

5-10 (j) The applicant has been terminated from employment under circumstances that demonstrate lack of good judgment or lack of good moral character.
How the hell would they even get this information?
Where is the due process?

5-10 (k) The applicant has demonstrated an inability to safely store firearms, such as through a history of lost/stolen firearms.
Again, define "through a history"... Would that be 1 firearm? 10 firearms?
This tells me that if I have ever been a victim of robbery in my home, I'm the problem and should not be allowed to posses a firearm.

5-10 (l) The applicant has failed to pay legally required debts such as child support, taxes, fines or penalties imposed by governmental authorities.
Would this include debts that are in dispute?

5-10 (n) Other information demonstrates an unwillingness to abide by the law, a lack of candor towards lawful authorities, a lack of concern for the safety of oneself and/or other persons and/or for public safety, and/or other good cause for the denial of the license.
So if I enjoy skydiving could this be spun into a lack of concern?

3-03 for lack of good moral character or other good cause, pursuant to section 10-303 of the Administrative Code, based on the following reasons"
Are we talking about good legal morals or good personal morals? Considering it is followed up with the word character I would be left to assume it would be personal morals.
So, who would be the individual who determines if an individual has a good moral character? What is the measuring stick they use to gauge moral character?


I do like that they removed all of the notary requirements and just stuck to requiring that they be affirmed in writing.

[rrneck]

12. "...a lack of candor towards lawful authorities..."

Well, allow me to be perfectly honest right now if I ever find myself living there:

Fuck you and the blind bow legged goat you rode in on you authoritarian wallet sniffing civil rights revoking exclusionary ideologically tone deaf arrogant self involved armadillo fucking sons of bitches.

[PavePusher]

14. That.... was true Art(tm). I bow to the Master. ;>) n/t

[Up Quark]

15. That sentence is a thing of beauty.

:D

[Euromutt]

17. Well, they can't fault you for lack of candor, anyway (n/t)

[shadowrider]

18. Well now, why don't you drop the cherry covered comments and tell us how you really feel

:woohoo:

[jazzhound]

20. Such a wonderful post I e-mailed it to a couple of my

liberal RKBA supporting friends!

Bravo sir.........bravo!!

:applause:

EDITED TO ADD: Stephen Colbert had me in stitches tonight ----- and now, this! How the hell am I supposed to get to sleep tonight?

[Taitertots]

13. They need some pseudo legal basis for denying anyone who isn't rich, white, or politically connected

Because denying applications to minorities, the poor, and political opponents without stated cause was obviously discrimination. Now all they have a whole list of alleged malfeasance they can deny them for.

[spin]

19. And the end result is still discrimination.

Explain to me why Marc Anthony has a license to carry a concealed weapon in NYC. Does being a very talented singer make you a better person than some individual who is merely a working stiff and lives in the less attractive areas of NYC?


Never fear J.Lo - your husband Marc Anthony is one of dozens of celebrities authorized to carry a concealed weapon in New York City.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/09/27/2010-09-27_celebrities_seeking_pistol_permits_on_the_rise_in_the_city_lifestyles_of_rich_n_.html#ixzz13hJ92LFU