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Dolomite Donating Member (689 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 03:15 PM
Original message
Wisconsin needs your help!
As some of you may or may not know, Wisconsin Governor Jim Doyle vetoed a controversial piece of gun control legislation a few months back called the Wisconsin Personal Protection Act (SB214). The following two posts contain a couple of the reasons I think this law is a good idea – please read them and rip me to shreds as you see fit!

The veto override vote is scheduled to be held this Wednesday, January 21st, 2004. I would ask that everyone that reads this to take a moment and contact the following Democrats in our State Assembly with a brief e-mail asking them for their continued support of SB214. This helps even if you are from another state – because - come on – who doesn’t love tourists?

Since they are constantly being swamped with e-mails, feel free to include a brief message, but all they’ll probably read is the subject – so I recommend just placing “SB214 – PLEASE VOTE TO OVERRIDE!” in your e-mail’s subject line and then add your name and address into the message’s body. THANKS!

Representative Wayne Wood
rep.woodj@legis.state.wi.us

Representative Terry Van Akkeren
rep.vanakkeren@legis.state.wi.us

Representative John Steinbrink
rep.steinbrink@legis.state.wi.us

Representative Amy Sue Vruwink
rep.vruwink@legis.state.wi.us

Representative Marlin Schneider
rep.schneider@legis.state.wi.us

Representative Gary Sherman
rep.sherman@legis.state.wi.us

Representative Barbara Gronemus
rep.gronemus@legis.state.wi.us
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Dolomite Donating Member (689 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. Will Wisconsin go the way of Vermont and Alaska?
Will Wisconsin go the way of Vermont and Alaska?

Currently citizens of Vermont and Alaska are allowed to legally carry concealed weapons without any sort of permit. Vermont has always been that way – Alaska has just recently done away with the idea of a carry permit for resident’s altogether.

Here’s how the State’s existing 130 year-old concealed carry law will eventually deliver the identical power to the unrestricted carry of concealed weapons everywhere in Wisconsin…

It was just months ago in July that the Wisconsin State Supreme Court had before it a case involving a Milwaukee merchant charged with carrying a concealed weapon. The merchant, Munir Hamdan, runs a grocery in the inner city of Milwaukee. The store had been the victim of several robberies. One day on a routine license inspection, he was asked if he kept a firearm in the store. He responded that he did, and that he carried on his person for the purpose of defense. Dyas following that inspection, police officers returned, found that Mr. Hamdan was indeed carrying a concealed weapon and charged him as such. The judge of the county court that arraigned him apologetically fined Munir the amount of $1.00 and admonished Milwaukee’s District Attorney for wasting the courts time with cases like these. Munir sought appeal after appeal until finally the case went before the Wisconsin Supreme Court . In the State vs. Munir Hamdan, the Wisconsin Supremes looked at our own State constitution, which states:

Article I, Section 25: The people have the right to keep and bear arms for security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose.

And contested that against the Jim Crow-era law that Mr. Hamdan was charged with violating:

Chapter 941.23 - Carrying concealed weapon: Any person except a peace officer who goes armed with a concealed and dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.

They wrote in a 6 to 1 majority decision that “application of the CCW statute effectively disallowed the reasonable exercise of Hamdan's constitutional right to keep and bear arms for the lawful purpose of security.” (State v. Hamdan, p.4)

Knowing full well this could have thrown out Wisconsin’s current 130-year-old concealed weapons prohibition altogether, the majority opinions were written by the Justices to address Munir Hamdan’s “right” to carry a concealed weapon specifically for his stated purpose: self-protection while conducting business in his store. The Wisconsin Supremes voiced their view that to deny someone the right to be armed - concealed or otherwise – for the defense of oneself while running one’s business was a patent violation of the State’s constitution as it is written.

Well, that addresses people who own their own business, fine – but what about you in your own home? Now this has bothered the Wisconsin Supremes for quite a while: Technically any person with a firearm socked away in a drawer, or even locked up in a gun safe, is violating the existing concealed weapon’s law (because the weapon is concealed from the view of anyone in the area, see?). That’s because there were no gun safes when the law was written and there is no exclusion in the law regarding private property!

The Wisconsin Supreme Court has, for the benefit of the majority of home owners in the state, with Hamdan provided for an “affirmative defense” in the unlikely case an over zealous law enforcer chooses to prosecute a person for possession of a concealed weapon in their own home. This is only an “affirmative defense” - it doesn’t mean that you won’t get arrested for having your Grandfather’s old .22 stuffed away in the back of your bedroom closet; it just means that your lawyer will probably be able to get the charge dismissed. Eventually. Now, I’m sure that while there are a myriad of views on gun ownership on the Democratic Underground, nobody here would disagree that it is far safer to have guns locked up when not in use than to leave them out in the open (just to adhere to the very letter of the current concealed weapons law).

So, what about the right of the individual concealing and carrying a weapon out and about in the general public?

Well, before Hamdan, doing that was clearly a misdemeanor offense. However now it appears that with the “affirmative defense” presented via the Hamdan decision, that as long as a person is not in the process of doing anything that could violate any other Wisconsin statute (peddling drugs, driving while intoxicated, etc), they apparently have the constitutionally guaranteed right to defense and may carry a concealed weapon whenever and wherever they choose. Scary isn’t it? Because while I believe that the right “to keep and bear arms” is just that, a right – the carrying of a concealed weapon out among the general public wherever one chooses is not.

Here’s what Chief Justice Shirely Abrahamson wrote in of State v. Hamdan (keep in mind that this was the sole dissenting opinion in this landmark case):

“anyone who must walk home from a bus stop every night after work through a high crime neighborhood can surely argue that his or her need to exercise the right to bear arms is high, concealment is necessary, and that his or her interests in self-protection substantially outweigh the State's interest in regulating concealed weapons… The number of individuals who can fit under (this) umbrella is large.”(State v. Hamdan, p.87)

And under this umbrella is where the people of Wisconsin stand – somewhere between the Governors’s veto pen and Vermont. The Wisconsin Supreme Court Justices have indicated that the day may come when they’ll have no choice but to rule that Wisconsin is to join the ranks of Vermont and Alaska in allowing any resident to a carry concealed weapon wherever and whenever they choose. The Supremes asked the Legislature to address this issue once, nicely – and that exactly is why Senate Bill 214 was reintroduced in Madison so soon after this decision.

. It was highly irresponsible for Governor Jim Doyle to hope that the Wisconsin Supreme Court will continue to defend this State’s archaic concealed weapon prohibition over and over again as they continuously watch it fail real world application.
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Dolomite Donating Member (689 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. The Current Mental Health Loophole
The Current Mental Health Loophole

On page 2 of the engrossed SB214, the version vetoed by Governor Doyle, Section 7 provides the Wisconsin Department of Justice a conduit to check for “an involuntary commitment history record check” while performing background checks on individuals purchasing a handgun as well as those applying for a concealed carry license.

Currently that specific information is not used when performing a background check during the mandatory 48 hour handgun purchase waiting period required of Wisconsin residents whenever they purchase a handgun through a licensed dealer.

The WI Department of Justice is making zero effort to follow Federal law by making this information available on firearm background checks. In fact, under the watch of the former Attorney General (and current Governor) Jim Doyle, this important piece of information was allowed to go unused. WHY?

The question is simply this: WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND supports a veto of a law that would “red flag” those who are involuntarily committed to a mental health program when they buy a handgun???
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
3. Um, no we don't...
That law was just one in the long line of right wing nonsense bills that are being sent to Doyle this year to get his certain veto. Others include a 'defense of marriage bill', etc...

We don't need a CCW law in WI. As someone that works in the taxi industry IN WISCONSIN, the last thing I want to see is even MORE people out there drunk with weapons in their pockets.

If you want to help out the right-wing fringe that's been trying to hijack the WI state senate and assembly, go ahead and support an override. Otherwise, I think Doyle is right.

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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Great post
and right on the money.
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Dolomite Donating Member (689 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Thanks for reading my posts (n/t)
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mmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I agree
100%
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Thank You, htuttle!!!!
Ssomeone needs to stand up to the gun lobby and their GOP lackeys.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. On what are you basing your assumption?
I mean the assumption that the bill in question would result with more armed drunken cheeseheads in public than you already have.

No state that issues permits allows people to carry weapons while consuming alcohol. If you have hard data to show that fair-issue carry laws actually result in an increased hazard to taxi company employees or anyone else please show us.

If you don't have data to support that then please explain how a person breaking the law by carrying an otherwise permitted weapon while intoxicated is more dangerous than any other drunk carrying a gun illegally.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. It Stands to Reason...
...that anyone with a permit to carry has more of a chance of having a gun on his person when intoxicated than a member of the general population. That alone makes them more dangerous.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Another answer based on fear and assumptions but no facts
Edited on Mon Jan-19-04 04:59 PM by slackmaster
That ranks right up there with "I don't have any numbers but it's just common sense."

...anyone with a permit to carry has more of a chance of having a gun on his person when intoxicated than a member of the general population.

That makes sense only if getting drunk is something that happens to people randomly, and that having a permit necessarily means that a person will be carrying a gun all the time.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Do you consider yourself...
...more dangerous with car keys in your pocket if you are intoxicated?
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Yes, I Would
Because with keys at my disposal, I would be more likely to drive while intoxicated. And some with a CCW who gets drunk whild carrying just may pull out the gun when he's unable to think clearly.

Of course, this it completely academic in my case. Because of the prescription medications I am currently on, I cannot drink alcoholic beverages at all.
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MrSandman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Would you feel safer when intoxicated if ...
you had car keys but no license? Closer analogy.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Since I No Longer Drink...
...it would be academic in my case.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. I've been drunk lot's of times...
...and I had car keys in my pocket. Guess what? That's right where they stayed.

I've also gone out drinking with a gun. Of course the gun stayed in the car because the law in Michigan says no guns in bars. When my wife drove me home the gun was unloaded and put in the trunk, per MI law.
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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. And in any case...
Don't you trust yourself to make the right choices?

Or at least trust in your ability to prevent yourself from making the wrong ones?(like getting a ride to wherever it is that you would be hypothetically be intoxicated at?
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. I Don't Trust The Choices Made By Others
Why should my life be put in danger just because someone wants to carry a damn gun?
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. You will notice
the case for Wisconsin is expected to be influenced by "enthusiasts" from other states, for no reason other than a fetish....

Nice bit of "honesty," eh? Wonder how many have sent e-mails claiming to be a citizen of Wisconsin who were not.
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alwynsw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. Fetish?
Nothing magical about my firearms. Nothing sexual either.
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MrSandman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. I worry more about others who make the choice
to DUI.
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RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. Sad way to live a life...
"I Don't Trust The Choices Made By Others"

You claim to never have been the victim of a crime (if I recall correctly)but still want to ban guns. It doesn't add up.
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
24. I have no studies to quote
Just life experience and logic.

But if you don't think that this law will increase the likelihood of of a drunk with a gun in his pocket -- then buddy, I can be certain that you don't live Wisconsin. Ever been here around deer hunting season? Do you think that people DON'T drink while (or before) they are out there hunting?

Interesting, also, how you take this whole 'Law and Order' angle on it. As though permitted gun owners find it unthinkable to break the law. Ironic, since among the opposition to this bill are The Wisconsin Chiefs of Police Association, The Badger State Sheriff's Association, The Wisconsin Sheriffs and Deputy Sheriffs Association, The Wisconsin District Attorneys Association, The Wisconsin County Police Association, The Association of State Prosecutors, and The Wisconsin Troopers' Association. Out of 72 county sheriffs, only 3 were in favor of this bill.

Here's a quandry. The bill in question allows businesses to post a sign (which must be followed up verbally, apparently) prohibiting weapons on the premises. When I am driving a taxi (which I don't do much anymore, but I occasionally still hit the road), I have this thing about having a stranger sitting behind me with a gun. I just don't like it. And the law says (both currently, and in this bill) I don't have to put up with it, so I can tell the person, "You can't have a gun in the cab." However, city regulations ALSO say that I can't just turn down a person for taxi service unless they are abusive, too drunk to walk, or a few other fairly defined conditions. And what if they say no? They have a gun!

Am *I* supposed to carry a piece to protect myself against passengers? Gunfights in the taxi? Well, that's no good. I actually used to carry a Walther for awhile (illegally), during the late '80's after several taxi drivers were murdered. It was no help, and probably a real hinderance toward my safety, since I all too often felt 'armed', and took risks I wouldn't have otherwise.

I (or rather my taxi) was shot at three times during the course of my career in Milwaukee, and in not a single one of those cases would a gun have helped matters any. Pull over on 14th and North and return fire? What? The one time I was held up, the person was already sitting behind me with a gun to my head. Too late for quickdraw. I finally got rid of the damned thing.

So no. I have no studies or hard data to speak of. Just my experience. And in my experience, if you are so afraid you feel the need to carry a gun when you are walking around in public in Wisconsin, it might be safer for all of us if you just stayed home....

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MrSandman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. When I feel "armed" I find myself taking fewer risks
Knowing that if anything escalates, I will have to defend it legall, civilly, and morally. Avoid, Diffuse, Defend.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Thanks for a thoughtful and honest reply
:toast:
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Dolomite Donating Member (689 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-20-04 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. This is very interesting actually...
”I actually used to carry a Walther for awhile (illegally), during the late '80's after several taxi drivers were murdered. It was no help, and probably a real hindrance toward my safety, since I all too often felt 'armed', and took risks I wouldn't have otherwise."
- See, this is a perfect example of why I’m for this bill. I’d feel the same way if I had absolutely no idea how to drive a car and someone dropped me right behind the wheel of a giant Chevy Caprice.

You equipped yourself with a gun, but you neglected to equip yourself. I can empathize with that. You never had anyone qualified sit you down and explain the what, why, when, and how of legal and ethical self-defense – that’s a bad place to be in (I know). This bill would require just that – and a whole lot more.

But if that ain’t enough to convince somebody - just think – after the next case similar to State v. Hamdan – the Supremes are likely to rule the current Jim Crow-era concealed weapons law unconstitutional. That means anybody that can own a gun can carry it concealed (ala Vermont and Alaska). Whereas the PPA spells out places where permit holders cannot carry a gun - no place would be off limits, thousands upon thousands of untrained people will be able to forgo the background checks and training and pack wherever they please. I wouldn’t think anybody on DU would want that!

The PPA closely controls who gets the permit. It spells out training requirements much more severe than half of the other States. It’s revocable. It’s accountable.

”I have this thing about having a stranger sitting behind me with a gun. I just don't like it.”
- Fair enough. Can I ask how you keep people with weapons out of your cab currently? Are off-duty Law Enforcement personnel not welcome as well? Of all the people that get into your cab carrying a weapon – the man or woman who’s undergone a background check and received the required training would be the only ones I would have zero problem turning my back on.

"I (or rather my taxi) was shot at three times during the course of my career in Milwaukee, and in not a single one of those cases would a gun have helped matters any."
- That is indeed horrible, but I’d be reticent to allow past experiences to abruptly predetermine the outcome of any further situations I may have in life. I wouldn’t want to hobble myself of an opportunity to protect myself at another time. Further more, I would feel it a violation against another human being if I were to limit their choices to legally and ethically defend themselves. And remember, nobody can force anybody to carry any sort of weapon if they don’t want to. Funny how sometimes people that are against this kind of thing base an argument on a imagineary scenario of what will happen when a concealed carry bill forces them to carry an object which they hate(not saying you're doing that at all - just something I've encountered in the past quite often).

”Out of 72 county sheriffs, only 3 were in favor of this bill.”
- I wonder if I could ask where you garnered that little tidbit. That’s certainly the kind of headline the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel and The Capital Times would be trumpeting every single day (if it were only true). The Sheriffs are going to be making a ton of moo-lah from these permits - money that, as specified in the bill, cannot be taken away from their usual annual budgets.

They’re making noises about this bill because they like being the only ones that can carry concealed. They won't say in public that they don't TRUST the citizens they've sworn an oath to serve & protect because they’re fond of their rather cushy privileged position. In turn they rely on making up stories about how a background check is going to take 12 hours to complete (which is funny because the Sheriff’s aren’t required to do the checks – they just place a phone call to WI DOJ). They complain about the dangers approaching a vehicle during a traffic stop due to the fact that the driver may have a weapon? Well, believe me, they approach every vehicle right now assuming everybody has a weapon anyway. This bill won't change that.

And what about the current Mental Health Loophole that SB214 will close?!? Doesn’t it bother anyone that, if the veto override fails tomorrow, individuals ordered into involuntary commitment will continue to not get “red flagged” when they go to purchase a handgun?

It bothers me!

Call or e-mail the Legislators listed above and let them know you want this common sense bill passed tomorrow!
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #29
45. A couple of points of clarification
Edited on Fri Jan-23-04 01:37 PM by htuttle
A) I'm not against the Second Amendment, RKBA, assault rifles, etc... I don't care what sort of weapons people have in their homes. If you want to keep an RPG in the basement, fine. Just don't try to bring it into my cab (and I can guarantee that if this bill passes, all of the taxi companies here will be posting signs to prohibit passengers bringing weapons in their cabs). So you will probably have to a) not take taxis if you have a concealed weapon or b) break the law by not telling the driver you have one, and bring one into the cab against the posted notice. I'd also be willing to bet that most bars in town will do a similar thing, though there should be little reason for someone to be in a bar wearing a concealed gun, right?

B) I didn't form my opinions about concealed weapons due to being 'scarred' by a robbery. If I had been 'damaged' psychologically by a robbery, I would have to find another line of work than the taxi business. I've known plenty of drivers who have had that happen to them after getting robbed -- I'm not one of them. My opinions on CCW have been formed over the course of many years, and have changed over time. It's more a matter of me not seeing the need for it, and therefore not seeing the rationale for the increased risk, than having any ethical/philosophical reasons against it.

C) Licenses or no, I can bet you that even if the CCW law passes, taxi drivers will be forbidden to carry weapons by city regulations (as they are now, we aren't even supposed to have a tire iron in the front seat) and/or company rules. This is the case in most areas with CCW laws. While it seems they trust all sorts of people with weapons, they always like to treat taxi drivers like criminals right off the bat (how many other non-security-related jobs do you have to get fingerprinted and mug-shotted for?). So the profession which has been rated the most dangerous in the country, and the one most likely to have guns pointed at us, will STILL be forced to go unarmed and unprotected, save for our wits... Fat lot of good the CCW law will do here. That is why I see it as only increasing our risk.

D) Finally, I want to add that the most uncomfortable thing about carrying a gun illegally was NOT being worried about having to use it or not (or knowing when to use it or not), but rather being worried about getting caught with it. I found this to be a strong deterrent toward carrying it any further (this was the reason I stopped carrying one). I had to babysit the damned thing, always having to be aware of whether it was visible or not. What a huge hassle. If I had a license for it (and if it were legal for a taxi driver to carry one), I would have felt perfectly comfortable with it.

That is all.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
7. packer fans with concealed weapons....
just kidding. since i`ve spent the last 11 years vactioning in wisconsin maybe i should speak-up and e-mail them.
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Dolomite Donating Member (689 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Packer fans with concealed weapons...
Edited on Mon Jan-19-04 04:22 PM by Dolomite
...permits are all over eastern MN and northern MI! :thumbsup:
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alwynsw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
39. Pecker fans?!?
I thought sex threads were banned!
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beevul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. I wish WI luck.
This afterall does not force anyone to carry concealed weapons, just gives them the option.


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funkyflathead Donating Member (723 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
20. Good luck!
I believe in CCW.

If someone wants to use their gun for harm, they will do it law or no.
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Township75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-19-04 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
28. Good Luck WI! Hopefully you join the rest of the states that respect...
their residents.

I bet it goes on to become law, and the people never vote to repeal it.
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Dolomite Donating Member (689 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
30. UPDATE FROM MADISON
- Before vote could be taken, minority leadership called for a closed door caucus of indeterminate length.
- Senator Russ Decker (D) publicly stated today that he has been threatened with losing a committee seat if he casts vote to override.
- WI Leaugue of Women Voters reporting that legislators are receiving calls 5 to 1 in favor of the override. (madison.com)
- Around 3:00PM, crowd estimated to be at several hundred gathered outside the door of the Democratic Caucus. Pro-freedom chants made. Patriotic songs belted out.
- Possibility of minority leadership hiding behind closed doors until the Governor's State of the State address begins tonight.
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alwynsw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Cowardly behavior
Get out of the cloakroom and cuss, discuss, and vote. This won't go away.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. Wonder how many of those "calls"
are from people nowhere near Wisconsin?

Here's the Milawukee Journal-Sentinel's account....

"For the governor's veto to be overridden in the Senate, four of six Democrats who voted to legalize concealed weapons last fall must again join all 18 Senate Republicans and vote for it. In the 33-member Senate, a two-thirds vote is required to override a governor's veto, which the full Legislature has not done since October 1985."

http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/jan04/201679.asp
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alwynsw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. See post #37
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
34. Legislature over rode the veto this AM
CCW in Wisconsin appears to be a done deal.

I just heard on the radio that the legislature chose to over ride the veto this morning rather than embarrass the governor with an over ride as he made his state of the state speech yesterday.

Democrats voting for the over ride asked for the delay as a courtesy.

That's one more state to add to the growing list with legal CCW.

Pretty soon all the anti CCW people will just have to move here to Chicago to feel safe from gun violence. No CCW in Illinois and no handguns in Chicago. Must be safe, right?

Unless of course you're a career criminal with 30 arrests and break into a home in Wilmette.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. And Another State Goes Stupid
*** shaking head in disbelief ***
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. The GOP and bad government
are synonymous.
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alwynsw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Hurrah! or for you Civil War re-enactors Huzzah!
Edited on Thu Jan-22-04 02:43 PM by alwynsw
What am I saying? Wisconsin Civil War re-enactors are YANKEES! My gggranddaddy was with Hillyard's Legion (later absorbed into the 59th Alabama).

On the serious side, bowing to the anti RKBA crowd: yes I called an emailed in support of this bill. I did not masquerade as a damn Yankee. I did point out that I am quite fond of the Dells, Ho-Chunk, the greyhound track, THE MIGHTY PACKERS and that I spend quite a few dollars in WI on a fairly regular basis.
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Dolomite Donating Member (689 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. Sorry DonP! Not quite a done-deal ... ... ... ... ... Yet.
(but soon, SOON - the entire State of Illinois will be completely surrounded by pro-CCW states! Muh-ha-ah! Muh-ah-ha!)

The Wisconsin Personal Protection Ammendment now has to go to the 98 member Assembly. They are convened until next week at which point regular floor business will be interrupted and the last veto override attempt will begin. These 7 Democrats voted for the bill last year before it got vetoed. I’m hoping that they’ll vote the same way again next week!

Please encourage your friends and families to do the same!

Representatives Wayne Wood (D) - Janesville (888)947-0044
rep.woodw@legis.state.wi.us

Representative Terry Van Akkeren (D) - Sheboygan (608)266-0656
rep.vanakkeren@legis.state.wi.us

Representative John Steinbrink (D) - Pleasant Prairie (608)266-0455
rep.steinbrink@legis.state.wi.us

Representative Amy Sue Vruwink (D) - Plover (888)534-0070
rep.vruwink@legis.state.wi.us

Representative Marlin Schneider (D) - Wisconsin Rapids (888)529-0072
rep.schneider@legis.state.wi.us

Representative Gary Sherman (D) - Port Wing (888)534-0074
rep.sherman@legis.state.wi.us

Representative Barbara Gronemus (D) - Whitehall (888)534-0091
rep.gronemus@legis.state.wi.us

Remember folks, if this bill fails two things happen:
#1 - The Mental Health loophole that Governor Jim Doyle ignored during his years as our State's AG will continue to allow unfettered handgun access to persons that have undergone involuntary commitment, and ,
#2 - The State Supreme Court may decide on it's own that the current Jim-Crow-era concealed carry law violates the State Constitution. Overnight this would remove all restrictions on all concealed weapons – anybody could carry anything anywhere they felt like.
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Thanks for the corrrection
So even after they have the votes it still has to go back to the assembly?

Hmm, that's what I get for relying on broadcasters and websites for information. They made it sound like it was already voted on and a done deal. Sorry.

Good luck up there. I may change my legal residence to my uncle's place in Eagle River, so I can qualify for the reciprocity benefit when I travel.

Nice job all you cheddarheads. I know what a long hard road it's been for you.

When you go to your first CCW classes have a brief moment of silence for those of us still trapped south of the cheddar curtain.
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. And When That Happens...
...Illinois will be an island of sanity in a sea of stupidity.
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Dolomite Donating Member (689 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Illinois... an island of sanity in a sea of stupidity
When it happens, you should see if you could get "Land of Lincoln" replaced with that beaut!
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DonP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. My proposal for our new motto
Land of Lincoln is getting kind of old and doesn't really reflect the character of the state anymore.

With four of our former governors, including our most recent Ryan, going into the Fed slammer my new proposed State motto for Illinois is:

"Will the Defendant Please Rise and Face the Jury"

Long for a license plate though, even when the former governor is making them.

Yeah, we are so sane. That's why Chicago is such and incredibly safe place to live, as far as gun crime goes.

Why don't all of you anti CCW folks rush on over to live in a state and city where you don't have to ever worry about your neighbor going crazy with a concealed weapon.

You're safe, CCW is against the law so don't worry. Ignore the murder rate. It has nothing to do with gun laws anyway. Trust the Chicago police to protect you. They have a great record for that you know. (I was in Grant Park in '68 and still have a scar from their "protection".)
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TyroneStryker Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. Please tell us
What states you consider "smart"
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