Daughter shot as mother fires on man during argument

[onehandle]

BURLINGTON, N.C -- A mother faces assault charges after police say she accidentally shot her daughter.

Investigators say 45-year-old Sheryl Troxler was arguing with a man Friday evening over damages to her car. During the argument, police say she went inside, got a gun and fired once in the direction of the man who was leaving the scene.

Troxler instead shot her 23-year-old daughter.

http://charlotte.news14.com/content/local_news/triad/628240/daughter-shot-as-mother-fires-on-man-during-argument

[proteus_lives]

1. Ban mothers. It's the only way we'll be safe.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

2. I agree with your assesment of the situation...

n/t

[rrneck]

3. Unrec for pointless propaganda.

[divideandconquer]

4. Truth=Propaganda in NRA world

These disasters happen to typical gun owners all the time.

[rrneck]

5. Pointless post with non sequitur. nt

[safeinOhio]

11. Great, I'm with you on banning all

stories about shootings like this one and all "armed citizen" stories about guns saving the innocent home owners too. Like both sides aren't guilty?

[rrneck]

16. Aw, I really don't mind 'em.

Although I would rather there be a whole list of items in one post rather than spamming the board with them.

It doesn't hurt for people on both sides of the issue to be reminded of the real world purposes and consequences of guns. But there should be some discussion about the issue. Anything less is just spam.

There are intelligent people on both sides of this issue but any attempt at discussion just devolves into insipid boilerplate waaaaay too much.

Such is life on the internets.

[AtheistCrusader]

21. Useless anecdotes at best.

At worst, flame bait, from both sides.

[TheWraith]

30. "Flamebait" describes it perfectly.

There is absolutely NO statistical value to anecdotes. You just end up with people claiming that all gun owners are murderers (I'm not kidding, someone said that in another thread) or other such unproductive bullshit discussion.

[cowman]

6. Happens all the time

show us the proof or STFU

[Straw Man]

7. "These disasters happen to typical gun owners all the time."

Source? Stats? Or is it something you just know is true?

I belong a club that has over 100 "typical gun owners" in it, and nothing like it has happened to any of them. Ever.

[marybourg]

8. The ones it HAS happened to no longer belong to gun clubs. nt.

[Straw Man]

9. The ones it HAS happened to...

no longer belong to gun clubs.

So are you defending the "typical" and "all the time" assertions? If not, what exactly IS your point?

[safeinOhio]

12. accidents do happen

Every year there are some key contributions to the death and injury tolls in the United States. The leading one is car accidents, but next in that line is gun injuries. The death toll from gun injuries has gone down slightly since 1989, but when you look at the statistics below, you would understand the growing concern from parents and people in your communities about guns. This will help show you just as my next pages will, the importance of gun safety and being a responsible gun handler and owner.
 
As each year passes on, a minimum of around 35,000 people die from gun injuries in the Untited States. But those are just the deaths, a little over three times as many people are injured and hospitalized from guns. When you narrow this down to a specific group, of the 35,000 deaths, 85% of those deaths were white males between the age groups of 10 to 34 years old. The most common age in that age group was 19 years old. For the estimated (3 times as much as 35,000deaths) 105,000 gun injuries in a year, 56% of those injuries occur in a home and are reported to be accidental injuries. But of those 105,000 injuries and 56% that occur in homes, 34% of those injuries are with victims 17 years old and younger.

http://ericwalczak0.tripod.com/id10.html

I'm sure this kid got his stats from somewhere. I didn't check the footnotes.

[Glassunion]

13. He did not post his sources. As far as accidental firearm injuries go.

His numbers are a bit off. I will update later when I am not driving.

[X_Digger]

14. Poisoning is #2..

http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html

All 'intents'
Motor Vehicle, 44,128
Poisoning, 40,059
Firearms 31,224

Even then, if we're talking about accidents..

'Unintentional'
Motor Vehicle, 42,031
Poisoning 29,846
Suffocation, 5,997
Drowning, 3,443
Fire, 3,375
Struck by / against, 832
Firearm, 613

[Glassunion]

15. Beat me to it. Here are the numbers by year for ages 0-19 same source.

1999 214
2000 193
2001 182
2002 167
2003 151
2004 143
2005 173
2006 154
2007 138

[safeinOhio]

20. So, those #s are for deaths?

Possibly 3 x that for nonfatal injuries?
Can't say accidents don't happen.

I can think of lots of accidental injuries and deaths that I know of personally due to firearms. Many involved "experts". I would think there are less accidents as time passes because of technology and laws. Hunter orange laws helped, for one thing. More people keep weapons locked in safes now than 30 years ago. When I was a kid, I'd never heard of trigger locks. Double action semi-autos seem safer to me than the old singles. Also seems modern handguns are less likely to go off when dropped.

[Glassunion]

27. Very true...

The CDC also has non-fatal accident data as well. But you must keep in mind, and I can speak from first hand experience that "Firearm" related injuries are not always a case of bullet leaving firearm and striking someone.

When I was first training my wife how to safely handle firearms, before we talked about aiming, stance, etc (there was no ammunition in the room)... My first lesson to her was on how to handle them safely. She was doing very well, and was flawless in handling our rife, and revolvers. When it came time to handle the pistol she also did quite well. However, when we were going through the process of re-assembly of it, the web of her thumb became caught in the ejection port. She said that it was not my fault as she skipped a step, but I do blame myself. It should not have happened. It required a trip to the hospital and 4 stitches. And yes it was a firearm related injury.

It was a hard lesson that my wife and I learned that day. Today, she can now field strip, re-assemble and load that same pistol in the dark.

Also, I must say that women do learn faster then men on how to safely handle and fire a firearm.

[gravity556]

28. Sorry, don't mean to hijack..@Glassunion

Tell her not to feel bad-I've been around guns and shooting since I was 6. I had one of the Springfield Armory micro-compact 1911s. I had it all put back together, and I saw a bit of fluff sticking to the side of the magwell. Not thinking what I was about to do all the way through, I stuck my right thumb into the magwell. Since I have giant monkeypaw hands, I naturally tripped the slide release from the inside. I believe those little 1911s have something like a 30# recoil spring-that gun was locked on to my thumb like a soccer mom grabbing the last Coach bag at a 90% off sale.

It is also very, very difficult to extricate yourself from that situation one handed. Fortunately, no blood was spilled, and my neighbor helped me get my thumb back before I did any permanent damage..

And the mother in the article was outside the law the second she went back inside for a gun-no immediate threat to life and limb? No reason to use a firearm. Murder is already illegal.

[AtheistCrusader]

24. You probably should. About half are suicides.

Most of the rest are homicides. Accidental shootings are a relatively tiny percentage, and have been declining since the 50's. From a safety standpoint, shooting sports, even for teenagers, is statistically safer than most highschool activities, like cheerleading.

[mvccd1000]

10. Who is a "typical gun owner?"

My dad has never had one of these disasters, but he has twice had poor, innocent, hard-working people lurking outside his store in a closed, dark strip mall at midnight after he finished up and was preparing to leave with the day's cash receipts.

Pulling his holster and gun off his belt and setting it on top of the cash bag while he pretended to make a quick phone call resulted in said persons finding somewhere else to wait.

Since he's never had an incident or accident, much less a disaster, with his pistol, I guess that makes his experience more typical in his world.

Having (but not using) a gun = no robberies.
Not having (but needing) a gun = two possible robberies.

You'll have a hard time convincing most sane people that they don't deserve the right to deter crime or defend themselves if it occurs.

[AtheistCrusader]

22. Really? 80+ million americans happen to shoot their own children all the time?

[KansasVoter]

17. LOL.....coming from you!

[rrneck]

19. Pfffft.

But thanks for playing.

[KansasVoter]

18. If the man she was talking to had a gun it would really have been popular here.

[AtheistCrusader]

23. We generally cheer self defense.

Hard to root for a situation like this. The charges against 'mom' say it all. She had no lawful justification to fire AND she didn't even shoot the person she meant to.

Immoral, AND illegal.

[Straw Man]

26. If the man she was talking to had a gun...

...it would really have been popular here.

I'd be interested to know why you think so.

[Nomorehannity]

25. Notice she is not a carry permit holder and broke the basic rule of gun safety

Even though you don't need a permit to go to a church and you shouldn't need a permit to carry your own gun, this woman was not among the hundred thousand or so in her state who went to the trouble of getting a permit. Clearly she had no idea how to operate the tool. She violated the basic rule of being sure of your target.

[slackmaster]

29. I believe you have to have a permit to buy a handgun in North Carolina

So she probably did have one, not that it did any good.

[PavePusher]

31. You must have either a purchase permit or a carry permit.

Purchase permit does not allow public carry.

http://www.ncdoj.com/getdoc/32344299-a2a7-4ae5-99fd-9018262f64ac/2007-NC-Firearms-gun-Laws.aspx