I-580 in Oakland remains closed following shootout

[MichaelHarris]

The protracted gun fight between CHP officers and a well-armed drunk driver on Interstate 580 Saturday night quashed what could have been a deadly mission by the man facing his third strike, officials said....Byron Williams, a 45-year-old Groveland resident, was found with a pistol, a shotgun, the rifle,....Williams has an extensive criminal history with at least two felonies....Byron was extremely upset over the U.S. political climate, often ranting at the TV about how his rights were being taken away by the government.

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_15545846?source=most_viewed


45-year-old parolee, described by his mother as angry at left-wing politicians, opened fire on California Highway Patrol officers on an Oakland freeway

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/18/BAG71EG92P.DTL#ixzz0u5rAcFQG


Wonder what the rifle was, I can probably guess.

[sharesunited]

1. How did he get his guns? Oh that's right. Easily. Thanx 2nd Amendment!

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sharesunited]

4. About the Spokane attack on the mother and two sons?

I erred. They would have all died if a gun had been used in that case.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sharesunited]

6. Honest error. And don't defend guns. It's bad karma.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sharesunited]

9. A right to have bullets enter our bodies? Stick with something more wholesome.

Clean air and water for example. Covered in the bill of rights?

[proteus_lives]

12. Deflection-fail.

A right to keep and bear arms.

Enshrined since the beginning.

Would you give the right to vote if some nice man in a uniform/suit promised you would be safe?

[sharesunited]

14. Sounds like you are getting ready to do battle with the government again.

Been there, done that. It was called the Civil War. Never again.

[proteus_lives]

15. Once again, deflection-fail.

The Civil War had nothing to do with what we're talking about. Try and stay on topic.

What other rights would give-up to be "safe"?

[sharesunited]

17. The Civil War was the Aberdeen Proving Ground of the 2nd Amendment.

It determined with finality that the so-called right to keep and bear arms, which the framers saw fit to include for the sole purpose of appeasing skeptics of a federal government, had been rendered obsolete.

Justification righteously vaporized.

Never again.

[proteus_lives]

19. You're hilarious.

"It determined with finality that the so-called right to keep and bear arms, which the framers saw fit to include for the sole purpose of appeasing skeptics of a federal government, had been rendered obsolete."

How so?

This going to be good.

[cowman]

21. rendered obsolete

it seems to me that the 2nd Amend is stronger than ever.

[spin]

16. Bad karma comes from misusing weapons, not defending their existence ...

Good karma might allow you to successfully defend yourself with a weapon if attacked by an individual intent on inflicting serious bodily injury or killing you.

[sharesunited]

34. Does this apply to nuclear weapons too?

Just wondering how far you are willing to go to re-label bad good.

[Hoopla Phil]

45. Ha Ha Ha. Gotta pull the canard out I see.

[spin]

48. Nuclear weapons are weapons of mass destruction ...

firearms are not.

Weapon of mass destruction

A weapon of mass destruction (WMD) is a weapon that can kill and bring significant harm to a large numbers of humans (and other life forms) and/or cause great damage to man-made structures (e.g. buildings), natural structures (e.g. mountains), or the biosphere in general. The scope and application of the term has evolved and been disputed, often signifying more politically than technically. Coined in reference to aerial bombing with chemical explosives, it has come to distinguish large-scale weaponry of other technologies, such as chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear. This differentiates the term from more technical ones such as chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear weapons (CBRN).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapon_of_mass_destruction

[sharesunited]

61. A pistol with a large clip brings significant harm on large numbers of people and property.

I want to find you on the right side of limiting this hand power.

[rrneck]

63. Why would anybody care what you want? nt

[Hoopla Phil]

65. Yep, that's why cops use them.

Do I really need the sarcasm tag?

[spin]

67. A weapon of mass destruction is several orders of magnitude higher than a firearm ...

Comparing a firearm to a nuclear weapon is a far worse comparison than comparing a blowgun to a 105 mm howitzer.

It might be like comparing a toy boat ...



To an aircraft carrier.

[Hoopla Phil]

11. Maybe you missed this one:

Williams has an extensive criminal history with at least two felonies

There are laws against him having the guns that I don't recall anyone on this forum contesting. Do you?

[Zoeisright]

20. Exactly. I am so sick of gun whiners protecting their precious killing machines.

And that's ALL guns are. They serve NO other purpose, unlike cars or kitchen knives.

[cowman]

22. Blah blah blah

whatever. your side lost get the fuck over it and quit whining about it.

[proteus_lives]

33. +1000

[X_Digger]

23. Mine must be defective.

Lots of holes in paper, a few tin cans, even a bowling pin or two.

Heck, by the numbers, it must mean that a majority of guns are defective.

80M gun owners with 300M guns.

1-2.5M defensive gun uses (90% of which don't even involve discharging a weapon, much less killing someone.)

~200,000 crimes were committed with guns (a majority of which don't result in death), ~10,000 homicides.

And yet, they serve no other purpose?

[shadowrider]

71. Mine too

Drove 450 miles yesterday and not once, not once did my weapon jump up out of the center console, remove itself from the holster and begin firing at innocent passersby.

Maybe I need to take it in for a refund?

[rrneck]

24. Who are they designed to kill? nt

[Hoopla Phil]

29. Criminals? That's what a cop buddy of mine tells me anyway.

[Francis Marion]

36. Live your creed:

If you call the cops to help you out, insist that they come unarmed.

[spin]

47. So hunting, target shooting and self defense are not worthwhile ...

uses for firearms?

I live in a very poor county in Florida. Many of my neighbors hunt deer and hog to supplement or totally supply meat.

My daughter used a "precious killing machine" to stop an attacker forcing his way through a sliding glass door in our kitchen. She didn't kill the intruder, she pointed a large caliber revolver at him and he ran. There was a burglar alarm blaring away and a 60 pound Black Lab in the house.

I have fired handguns at pistol ranges for 40 years as a hobby. I met a lot of interesting people and found the sport challenging and rewarding. I punched a lot of holes in paper targets, but none of my firearms has ever killed a living creature.

Your hatred of firearms is irrational and based on emotion.

[SteveM]

57. Was that an Evinrude bogging down in the hydrilla? p-YOU. nope.

[turdsinthepunchbowl]

32. short rights

gun ownership is (among other things) a hedge against the notion that rights are inherently protective/inalienable
the decay of arms at the hand of entropy is far more predictable than the decay of 'legal rights' via redefinition and justification due to 'extraordinary circumstance'

to believe that notional rights grant real protection is unicorn-thinking:
see Oscar Grant case
see 'free-speech zone'
see suspensions of habeas corpus

BTW I am pretty sure that the photo is of the PD's guns. The suspect was armed with a rifle, a shotgun, and a pistol - there are at least three rifles in the photo.

[slackmaster]

44. Apparently sharesunited is not familiar with California's strict gun control laws

The only legal way to acquire one here is through a federally licensed dealer, and all sales require background checks.

But that's not surprising. sharesunited doesn't even understand the difference between a gun and a knife.

[gateley]

2. Good God! How terrifying! Glad none of the officers or passers-by were harmed,

and that for once, the guy will live so we can find out what the hell was going on in his head.

[friendly_iconoclast]

8. "Wonder what the rifle was, I can probably guess."

An AK-47 bought from some white extremist, or a dude from Moscow, Idaho?

[Hoopla Phil]

10. Williams has an extensive criminal history with at least two felonies

So the answer is more restrictions on the law abiding that the criminals will ignore?

[proteus_lives]

13. Shhhh! Some people hate to hear that!

[sharesunited]

31. No, the answer is fewer guns and less ammo generally. Make them scarce.

Trying to discern between whom shall and shall not have them is futile.

[Hoopla Phil]

39. This gun control law failed so the answer is more gun control. FAIL

And let's not forget that pesky 2A thing. Making guns difficult for the unorganized militia to get does nothing to stop the criminals from getting them and using them in crime.

When you get an idea that takes guns out of the hands of criminals with infringing on the unorganized militias rights I'll be happy to lend an ear to your idea. So far I haven't heard one.

[sharesunited]

62. Control only as expressed as supply.

Fewer. Capiche?

[SteveM]

58. Shares has spoken! Amen!

[shadowrider]

72. Hey, I look forward to SU's posts

sometimes it's the only good laugh I get all day.

[PavePusher]

18. "Wonder what the rifle was, I can probably guess."

Why does it matter?

Is there some type that is more dangerous than another type?

[Historic NY]

25. heres a photo

[MichaelHarris]

26. thanks

my guess was dead on.

[Straw Man]

27. "my guess was dead on."

Why don't you tell us what your guess was and what you see in the photo? Or shall we just take your word for it?

[Hoopla Phil]

28. It was an easy guess. Just guess the most common sporting rifle currently being sold.

It's the law of averages.

[MichaelHarris]

35. take my

word for it

[Hoopla Phil]

40. Yeah, I'm sure that is worth a lot. Remember this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x270147

[Tejas]

66. LOL!

LOL, I caught on to you, finally put a cover over my keyboard :rofl:

[rrneck]

42. You have a credibility deficit. nt

[oneshooter]

53. Why? n/t

[PavePusher]

49. And is there any significance to the type of rifle used? n/t

[Paladin]

60. That's About All Our Resident Gun Enthusiasts Care About When These Things Happen.

They certainly don't register any concern for the victims of these brutal incidents, because they look upon such bloodshed as a fair trade-off for their ability to acquire as big and varied a collection of firearms as possible.....

[Tejas]

64. "They certainly don't register any concern for the victims"

Yep, I can feel the "concern" just gushing through the OP like water spilling over Hoover Dam.






not

[PavePusher]

68. Care to address the question? n/t

[Glassunion]

51. Guess again...

Read the article and then look at the picture.

I'm afraid your guess is still up in the air.

[benEzra]

55. Your guess about what the police were armed with? (n/t)

[Glassunion]

50. Are those the shooter's guns? I don't think so. Read the news story again.

Me thinks those are the officer's weapons collected as evidence.

[benEzra]

54. Ummm, those look like the guns of responding officers, propped where the officers stopped shooting.

I see at least two AR-15 type carbines, and what appear to be two tactical-style shotguns. Reports say the guy was armed with a handgun, a shotgun, and a high-powered hunting rifle and it doesn't appear that he was the one using a bridge railing as cover.

[marybourg]

30. I guess we're going to have to get used to these multiple shoot-

em-up stories every Sunday nite from now on. Used to just be the wild west 'til the U.S. Marshal came to town; now it's the whole gun-toting country.

[benEzra]

56. Except that the U.S. violent crime rate is at its lowest level in decades.

I believe murders are down by nearly half since the 1980's, though you'd never know it from MSM fearmongering.

[AtheistCrusader]

37. Hey, whatever happened with crazy guy with an AK in moscow idaho?

You ever follow up on that with any corroborating news or evidence?

I'd like to know what this felon was doing with a bulletproof vest and multiple firearms.

[MichaelHarris]

38. many times

[Hoopla Phil]

41. You claimed to many times. But you never did. Take a look, there is none posted.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x270147

[rrneck]

43. Produce some evidence or STFU. nt

[proteus_lives]

46. They always slink away.

[SteveM]

59. The cat crept into the crypt....

crapped, then crept out again.

[proteus_lives]

69. Ha! good one.

[slackmaster]

52. The Mercury News article answers your question

"...a high-powered hunting rifle, a pistol and a shotgun."

HTH

[Nomorehannity]

70. You say you can "probably guess" what rifle it was? What a ridiculous statement.

What difference does it make what the rifle was? If it was a "deer" rifle, and used effectively, there would have been dead officers. You seem to be implying that it was a rifle that you have arbitrarily decided is "evil," yet if it was, the media would have gleefully reported as such.

EDITED TO ADD: it has been established that the guns in the picture were the cop's. Fail.