Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Gura reply brief in McDonald v Chicago

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU
 
oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-29-10 05:49 PM
Original message
Gura reply brief in McDonald v Chicago
http://www.chicagoguncase.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/08-1521rb.pdf

Another hit in the boiler room.

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
virginia mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-29-10 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. LOL, Chicago, and Daley, are so overmatched....ROLFMAO!!! NT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
X_Digger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-29-10 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. Wow, are we sure Gura doesn't hang out here?
This one struck me as rather powerful (and oddly familiar..)

"The fundamental flaw underlying Respondents’
approach is their erroneous conception of rights as
something granted by the Constitution when judges
deem it suits public policy. See, e.g., Respondents Br.
11; Mayors Br. 2, 30. The Second Amendment, like
the First, grants nothing. These secure pre-existing
rights against the federal government."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. There are a few DU'ers that could easily be him.
Though modest, they know who they are and I for one am grateful for their knowledge, hard work and patience in this forum.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GreenStormCloud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-29-10 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. Gura really takes the Chicago lawyers to school.
"A paper based on little more than a Google
search should not be used against decades of detailed,
disciplined scholarly work by some of the Nation’s
leading legal historians."

That should leave a mark.


"In endorsing the SlaughterHouse line, Respondents
endorse decisions that “have been thoroughly
discredited,” NAACP Br. 12, and “that are rightly
regarded as among the most misdirected in the history
of the Court.” NAACP Br. 13. From the moment
it issued, the press, Members of Congress (including
those who enacted the Fourteenth Amendment), and
legal commentators generally agreed SlaughterHouse
was wrongly decided, even when applauding the
error. Richard Aynes, Constricting the Law of Freedom:
Justice Miller, the Fourteenth Amendment, and
The Slaughter-House Cases, 70 CHI.-KENT L. REV.
627, 678-86 (1994) (“Constricting”).
Yet Respondents suggest that the Slaughter-
House Court was “in a uniquely advantageous
position to discern the meaning of the Privileges or
Immunities Clause” owing to its historical proximity
to the framing. Respondents Br. 60. This view ignores
SlaughterHouse’s failure to discuss the framing, and
the fact that the Court bitterly divided 5-4. The
dissenters, too, lived through the ratification."


"Erroneous precedent should be overruled,
not tortured further to achieve politicallydesirable
results."


Go for it. Overturn Slaughterhouse.

Gura is awesome!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TPaine7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-29-10 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. Devastating!
Gura makes a point I have long made on this site:

Respondents err in assuming that the 1868
Framers’ conception of the right to arms was necessarily
limited or altered by the Second Amendment’s
militia preamble. Respondents’ focus on the Second
Amendment’s ratification history is simply irrelevant
here. Even were Heller wrongly decided, the relevant
inquiry in this case concerns the original intent and
public meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment.
And even if that Amendment’s Framers and their
public erred in interpreting the Second Amendment
(or Article IV, or anything else), their understanding
nonetheless defines the content of the Amendment
they enacted.
No serious question exists that the
Fourteenth Amendment was designed to secure the
right to arms against state infringement.
Constitutional
Law Professors Br. 28.


Here's what I said, trying to explain this very point:

Regardless of what Madison and the rest of the Bill of Rights' Framers meant, there is another issue. The Constitution can be legitimately modified by amendment. And the fourteenth time that the Constitution was amended the Second Amendment was affected.

...

You see, the Framers of the Fourteenth Amendment are right by definition. If next year an Amendment were ratified that said that the Third Amendment means only that soldiers may not be quartered in citizens’ homes in times of peace during leap years,—and thus quartering during peace is legal most years—that would be the new meaning of the Third Amendment. It wouldn’t matter what Madison or the original signers meant.

...

It seems to me that whatever the Second Amendment originally meant, it now means that there is a personal, individual right to keep and carry arms, enforceable against the all of the states—Illinois, New York, and California included.

Source: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x229712


Sure, we word it differently. He speaks of the meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment, I speak of the new meaning of the Second Amendment as enforced against the states by the Fourteenth, but the bottom line is the same. Even if Heller were wrongly decided, and even if the Second Amendment originally applied only to on duty militia members under total state control, the Fourteenth Amendment still changes the status of the right to keep and bear arms.

Another gem I was really impressed with:

The Second Amendment’s framers assumed that
the People’s ability to act as militia, preserved by the
ownership of self-defense weapons, “is necessary to
the security of a free state.” U.S. Const. amend. II.
The constitutional text thus reflects the Framers’ conclusive
judgment that the right to arms is essential to
“ordered liberty,” were that the selective incorporation
standard.


This is a devastating brief. I really hope the Court doesn't sidestep the "privileges" and "immunities" clause. It's time to remove the blot from America's judicial history, the long line of sophistries and lies that have supported unconstitutional gun control and other abominations.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Outstanding, makes you wonder if
Daley et al just copy/paste Bradyisms because they figure that's more than enough to sway the United States Supreme Court.

Simply makes me wonder how in the world the moonbat laws these crooks have in place have stood for so long.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TPaine7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Contempt. For. The. Constitution. And. Individual. Rights.
At all levels of government.

Simply makes me wonder how in the world the moonbat laws these crooks have in place have stood for so long.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-30-10 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. After over half a century of using the 14th Amendment as a bulwark of civil rights...
legislation and court cases, some "civil rights" advocates have catastrophic memory loss when it comes to the right to keep and bear arms. That has never ceased to amaze me, and reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of not only the 14th, but also the entire purpose of the Constitution.

This is where "conservatives" have a legitimate bone to pick with so-called liberals: Amendments (and cases which flow from them) are cited only when it serves a government policy deemed "desirable;" if an amendment gets in the way, ignore it or declare it "obsolete" or "dead letter."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue May 07th 2024, 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Guns Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC