Resident Shoots, Kills Burglar

[The Straight Story]

Resident Shoots, Kills Burglar
Sorrento Man Says Man Was Breaking Into His Shed

Brett Lee Canada, 23, of Mount Plymouth, was shot and killed, authorities say.

SORRENTO, Fla. -- A Sorrento homeowner on Thursday morning shot and killed a man who was trying to break into a shed on his property, according to police.

The homeowner told police he discovered someone trying to break into the shed at about 6:30 a.m.

Police said he opened fire, killing Brett Lee Canada, 23, of Mount Plymouth.

Canada was arrested in August on burglary and theft charges, according to the Lake County Sheriff's Office.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/21662263/detail.html

[arcadian]

1. Cue the gun nuts applauding this vigilante act in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...

[anonymous171]

2. Yes, he should have helped the man open his shed. How inconsiderate.

[arcadian]

3. Bwahahaha!

You are right on cue!!! Classic... simply classic.

[tkmorris]

4. Yes because that was the only other choice he had

I'm not taking a side on this one but I am sick to death of the ridiculous remarks that masquerade as "debate" from both gun rights activists AND the anti-gun crowd. We'd all be better off if everyone would stop making completely absurd comments and simply discuss the issue like adults.

[anonymous171]

6. You are right.

But how do you respond sensibly to someone who considers the defense of personal property to be a "vigilante act"?

[arcadian]

8. Following your logic, let's take this to it's conclusion.

How about if you yourself can't defend your personal property from theft then you don't deserve it.

[anonymous171]

11. I never implied that

I don't see what you are trying to say here. All I am trying to say is that a person has a right to defend themselves and their property. Was this a "vigilante action?" No. Was it a morally permissible action? Unless he was personally threatened by the man, I would say no. People are worth more than property.

[arcadian]

14. I'm saying that.

"All I am trying to say is that a person has a right to defend themselves and their property." What you are saying is that a person's life is worth less than say an Ipod. I'm saying that the flip side to your argument is that "fuck it, if people are going to take the law into their own hands and be judge,jury and executioner, then I say fuck it, throw the law out and if YOU can't defend your property from burglars and thieves then you have no right to that property." I mean you do advocate the law of the jungle don't you? You said so in your post.

[uppityperson]

16. YOu have a "right" to kill someone stealing your lawnmower?

"a person has a right to defend themselves and their property. "

I agree that people are worth more than property.

[anonymous171]

22. No, you have a right to defend it. So you can't just blow their head off for touching your mower

But you can point the gun at their head and order them off of your property. If they violently resist or threaten your or others' persons in any way then killing them would be OK, since it would be self-defense.

[arcadian]

25. So, you would kill somebody over a lawn mower?

You know they have anger managemet classes you can take, probably online.

[anonymous171]

26. I said you could order them off of your property, not kill them.

Killing is only permissible if it is committed in self-defense.

[PavePusher]

58. No, but you could legally shoot them if they threatened your life...

in the act of stealing your mower. Once they decide that the mower is worth more than your life, you are free to reciprocate.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

17. That's the dumbest thing I've ever read.

[arcadian]

24. You must not get out much.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

40. Apparently I have just missed much of your work.

[petronius]

36. It's funny when a jack-in-the-box pops up to make fun of others for being

jacks-in-the-box... :rofl:

[arcadian]

41. Mencken? really?

Is that racist one of your heroes?

[petronius]

48. I like the quote, Jack

What an odd and tangential question...

[arcadian]

69. When somebody makes jerky comments about me I usually check out their profile.

To see what they are all about.

[AtheistCrusader]

83. This isn't a vigilante act:

"Sgt. John Herrell, Lake County Sheriff's Office spokesman, said Biel had been victimized by recent burglaries and had lawn equipment stolen from his 25130 Spring Hill Ave. yard in Sorrento.

As a result, Biel set up an alarm system.

The alarm went off about 3:30 a.m. Thursday.

When Biel peeked outside, he saw the silhouette of a person in a fenced-in area near his lawn trailer.

Herrell said a family member called 911 as Biel went outside to investigate. He shot the suspected burglar when the man came at him in a threatening manner, Herrell added.

Herrell said investigators found bolt cutters at the scene and the suspected burglar dressed in a black hoodie and gloves,; he was lying in the fenced-in area when deputies arrived."


Now, if that is true, this isn't vigilante justice. If it's false, and the investigators have ways of figuring that out, then what you claim MIGHT be true.

[Libertas1776]

5. What the hell is the justification for shooting

and killing someone who was breaking into a shed. At the very least, he could have kept him at bay with his gun until the police arrived. Unless the guy lunged at him or attacked him in some way, which the article doesn't say, I see no justification.

[arcadian]

7. It's best not to ask.

This thread will only end in flames and tears.

[slackmaster]

56. The story doesn't provide any information that suggests there was a valid reason IMO

Which of course would be the homeowner having a reasonable fear of death or great bodily injury.

It says he hasn't been arrested, but that does not necessarily mean he won't be arrested later.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[arcadian]

10. Yeah man, he deserved to die.

I hope after the home owner shot him he woke up his 5 year old kid and let the kid shoot the burglar one more time... you know? To build character.

[Norwood]

13. Yea woulda been much better if he killed the homeowner and then his kid right?

[arcadian]

19. Hey man, I agree, with you.

He should have woke his kid up, then they could have had some sort of paleo-lithic ceremony where the dad slices open the burglar's rib cage, rips out his heart and let's the kid take a big ole bite out of it as a rite of passage into manhood. Fuck that dead guy, he was a sacrifice.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Katya Mullethov]

67. You cant do that

Blood born illnesses are rife amongst oxygen thieves .

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

18. He should have been aware of the possible outcome of his criminal behavior. He is to blame.

[arcadian]

21. Well, we know what your reaction would have been if you had been the first responder.

Let the burglar bleed out, right?

[Norwood]

29. And if the burgler decided to assault or kill the homeowner and his family

You would be there to pin a medal to the burglars chest and tell him to run quick. One less gun owner to worry about right?

I'm just using your logic in this situation.

[arcadian]

31. This doesn't qualify as a home invasion.

The home owner should be brought up on manslaughter charges at the very least.

[uppityperson]

32. However, he was not doing that. At that point, yes, could use force, but not merely

breaking into a shed.

[U4ikLefty]

39. I see you shut his ass up...lol!!! n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

44. Nope, he's quite mistaken. Criminals should be aware of the risks of their behavior.

As should anyone who engages in risky behavior. That doesn't mean I have less of a duty to provide a high level of care to a criminal or to a teenage skateboarder who trys some crazy ass stunt.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

50. Looks like I shut both your asses up....lol!!! n/t

See how stupid that is to do. No charge for this lesson.

[U4ikLefty]

84. loser, now in the gungeon...not worth my time. n/t

[Katya Mullethov]

92. I am

May I have this dance ?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

42. He would have gotten the best care I could have given him.

I have treated many criminals who have been shot, they all got the best care I could give. As did the convicted child molester that I transported from prison with chest pain.

[arcadian]

72. I'm sure they do...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

82. Thanks.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sudopod]

38. Wait, wat?

"Read the comments after the story at the link - evidently, the thief had prior convictions for burglary, and came after the homeowner when he was discovered."

Ok, good to know. It was self defense rather than shed defense, which is reasonable if sad.

"Anti gunners are ignorant and sexually disfunctional bigots."

Wait, what? O_o

[Norwood]

12. When you try to break into someone else's home, don't be surprised if the owner shoots at you

Oh yea the poor burgler. What kind of world do we live in where you can't go into a neighbors shed and help yourself to his things. For shame!! Shame on you Mr. Homeowner!
</ :sarcasm: >

You gotta be kidding me....you reap what you sow going onto someone elses property without permission. I myself would have no problem pulling the trigger on someone who breaks into my home. I don't know if they're armed or what they're there for. Trying to scare them off could cost you your life if they happen to be packing heat.

[uppityperson]

23. What kind of a world do we live in where it is acceptable to kill someone for breaking into a shed?

I'd rather replace my lawnmower than kill someone, but hey, guess I'm a "ignorant and sexually disfunctional bigot", right? Being intolerant of killing someone for breaking into a shed and all. Yup, sounds like a "ignorant and sexually disfunctional bigot" all right.

[Norwood]

27. If you're on property thats not yours without permission

You're taking your life into your own hands. Put yourself in the owners shoes, you dunno what someone breaking in has planned. In this situation I personally think shooting the guy for breaking into his shed was a bit much, but its his property and was his choice to use lethal force.

[arcadian]

28. Bull shit.

Property rights don't give you carte blanche. The law differs from your opinion.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[anonymous171]

35. I love Stand Your Ground laws. nt

[arcadian]

37. Family can still file a civil case against the homeowner for unlawful death.

[proteus_lives]

52. Wow, you really want to punish this guy.

Why?

Because he defended himself?

Used a gun to do it?

[metalbot]

59. No - this happened in Florida

Since this happened in Florida, the shooter is protected from civil liability for a shooting that a grand jury rules as justified, especially one that takes place on the shooter's own property.

[arcadian]

71. Did Wayne Lapierre send up the Bat signal or something/

[GreenStormCloud]

60. Not in Florida. They have Castle Doctrine.

If this is ruled as a justified homicide, the family gets to bury the dead goblin, and that's all they get to do. Lawsuits in justified homicide cases are forbidden to the family.

http://www.gunlaws.com/FloridaCastleDoctrine.htm

[X_Digger]

61. Something I learned in CHL class..

Castle doctrine (in TX at least) doesn't prevent the family from suing, but it does stop them from recovering damages. The point being that you can't deny people access to the courts, but you can limit damages recovered. (That was the only question I missed on my CHL test.)

[GreenStormCloud]

68. You are correct, but the practical effect is the same.

Since most of the families of dead crooks won't have the money to hire a lawyer to sue, they will have to get a lawyer who will sue on consignment. Since recovery is forbidden, it will be really hard to find a lawyer who would take their case.

[arcadian]

70. Bullshit. A person can bring a civil case against somebody for anything.

It's up to the court whether it has merits.

[metalbot]

74. Well, not really. Read the law...

Summary from Dallas News (regarding the Texas law that was based on the Florida law):

"The new law will also provide civil immunity for a person who lawfully uses deadly force in any of the circumstances spelled out in the bill. Police and prosecutors can still press charges if they feel deadly force was illegally used, legislative sponsors said."

Here's the summary from Wikipedia:

"Immunity from civil lawsuit
In addition to providing a valid defense in criminal law, many versions of the Castle Doctrine, particularly those with a "Stand-Your-Ground clause", also have a clause which provides immunity from any lawsuit filed on behalf of the assailant for damages/injury resulting from the use of lethal force. Without this clause, it is possible for an assailant to sue for medical bills, property damage, disability, and pain and suffering as a result of the injuries inflicted by the defender, or for their next-of-kin to sue for wrongful death in the case of a fatality. Even if successfully refuted, the defendant (the homeowner/defender) must often pay thousands of dollars in legal costs as a result of such lawsuits, and thus without immunity, such civil action could be used for revenge against a defender acting lawfully.
The only exceptions to this civil immunity are generally situations of excessive force, where the defender used deadly force on a subdued, cooperative, or disabled assailant. A situation meeting this exception generally invalidates the criminal "castle defense" as well. In addition, someone who uses deadly force in self-defense is still liable for any damages or injuries to third parties who were not acting criminally at the time of the defensive action."

So yes, you can be sued, but since you are immune from having to pay except in special circumstances, no lawyer is going to pursue these.

[GreenStormCloud]

75. And the court has to follow the LAW.

And the law in many states give immunity to the shooter if it is justified homicide. Yes, the family can file suit, and watch as the case is tossed out. No contingency lawyer will touch it.

[AtheistCrusader]

80. You mean FILE it? Sure.

But in some states, you wouldn't even have to show up or hire an attorney or anything to get that crap tossed out.

[AtheistCrusader]

79. Not in Texas. Probably not in Florida either, but I haven't seen all the relevant state laws.

Can't you research anything before you post?

[Gumbo]

64. Depends on the state

In Texas, deadly force in the protection of property is considered justifiable homicide.

[AtheistCrusader]

78. Au contrare.

In SOME STATES the law differs from BOTH your opinions. In SOME STATES, you can, and others you cannot.

Washington is an example where you cannot kill to protect property, Texas would be a state where you can. Other states have various shades inbetween.

[slackmaster]

57. Please don't jump to a conclusion that the shooting was justified

The fact that the shooter has not been arrested does not necessarily mean he won't be arrested later.

[Ichingcarpenter]

20. Gun forum please n/t

[Merchant Marine]

43. What, can't handle the reasoned debate?

[Ichingcarpenter]

45. This belongs in the Gun Forum

Debate it there..... there are plenty of stories like this there.

I'm alerting again.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

47. And breaking the rules again it would seem.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

46. Whhaaaa! What is it with weak minded people on DU nowadays.

[Ichingcarpenter]

49. Now the personal attacks

A weak mind is like a microscope, which magnifies trifling things, but cannot receive great ones

I know where your microscope is always pointed.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

51. They started in post #1.

[eqfan592]

62. Coming from the person who's so affraid of discusion about firearms...

..in the GD forum that she reports such discussions, and apparently has done so multiple times. A microscope, indeed.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[LostInAnomie]

53. Oooo... I can hear the gun nuts fapping off right now.

"I'm a Rambo too! I'm a Rambo too!"

*beads of sweat building on forehead*

[eqfan592]

63. Yep, that's exactly what's happening.

No, wait, no it's not. Only a fucking moron would actually believe that. You're not a moron, right?

[rd_kent]

73. Yours is the MOST asisnine post yet. Well done.

You managed to include ALL the rhetoric in a single sentence yet add nothing constructive to the conversation. Have you been practicing?

[spin]

76. If I found someone breaking into my shed...

which is actually a workshop and garage with several valuable motorcycles inside, I would call the police and stay on the cell phone.

I would then load my 12 gauge double barreled shotgun and a .38 cal snub nosed revolver, wake my son in law for backup with his .40 Glock and walk outside to hold the robbers until the police arrived.

I would shoot only if the robbers attacked me. Chances are the view down the two barrels of the coach gun would discourage that.



I'm not Rambo nor do I wish to play one on DU. However, I'm not a fool.

If you know you might have a fight, bring a shotgun.

[eqfan592]

77. I love those double barrel shotguns!

What model is that? I've had my eye on a stoeger coach gun for some time.

[spin]

87. The base model, nothing fancy...

12 gauge without screw in choke tubes and double triggers.

Some of the reviews I had read were critical and said that often the wood was inferior and not properly finished, the trigger pull was extremely heavy, the barrels would not break open easily, Remington primers were often too hard for the weapon causing failures to fire and the recoil was very oppressive.

I went to a local gun store and examined the coach gun he had on display. The wood looked good, the triggers broke smoothly and at a very reasonable weight and the weapon opened easily. For all I know the reviews were right, and he had merely fixed any problems or selected the best sample to put on display.

The price was right so I bought the firearm and tested it. The recoil was stiff but manageable with 2 3/4" 00 buck. All the ammo I tried, including Remington, worked fine. I had purchased a recoil pad, but decided not to use it.

I bought the shotgun as a home defense weapon. I have absolutely no desire to ever shoot anyone.

Many years ago I had a double barreled side by side pointed at me in Mississippi. I was driving down a back road in the country when it suddenly ended up in a guys side yard. I was in the process of turning around to leave when the home owner ran out and drew down on me.

He said, "What are you doing in my yard, boy. Are you pooching my chickens?"

Those two barrels looked like trashcans to me and I swear I could see the shells at the opposite end of the barrels.

I politely replied, "No sir, I was just driving down the road and I ended up in your yard."

He said, "You better get your ass out of here boy."

I said, "Yes sir." and left.

That lesson stuck with me. A pump may also be great defense weapon because of the noise it makes when you rack it. While there is no doubt that that is a fact, it also reveals where you are at. A side by side shotgun tends to make you polite and cooperative when you find yourself at the wrong end of the weapon.

A shotgun is a great weapon to use to hold some idiot until the police arrive. It's faintly possible that some brave fool might try to take my handgun from me. I would then have to shoot him. It's far less likely that the bravest fool would try to grab a short shotgun pointed at him from fifteen feet. Chances are he will comply with my orders and we will peacefully wait for the cops to cuff and stuff him and take him off the jail. We won't bother to discuss the results if the bad guy does attack me.

[taurus145]

89. I like the coach gun

Had one save my butt a few years back. Let's just say some very nasty people showed up on my front porch wanting to "get even" over a disciplinary action I instituted against their son/brother. The disciplinary action involved a maximum security inmate. I was a corrections captain.

Mine has the exposed hammers. I'm a traditionalist.

[Norwood]

54. Very nice, I see most of my posts where removed. God forbid theres a dissenting opinion huh?

[AtheistCrusader]

81. If you post within the rules of the forum, you won't get deleted.

'dissenting opinion' lol

[rd_kent]

90. Your posts were removed because they broke the DU rules.

And because they were stupid.

[slackmaster]

55. It's a shame that a young man would resort to breaking into a someone else's shed

There must be more to this story, but it's probably a sad one.

[burrfoot]

65. Does anybody have

information that the criminal threatened the homeowner?
If he lunged/ran towards the homeowner, then I think it's a clear case of self defense. If the guy was shot for breaking into the shed...in my opinion, that's not worth killing someone over. Call the police, if he kid gets away you file an insurance claim and get new stuff.

I realize the castle doctrine probably applies here, but if it was me personally, I wouldn't shoot for breaking into a shed. Where is the imminent threat to life and limb?

Again, if the criminal did something threatening, it's a whole different story.

[eqfan592]

66. Somebody posted in the comments section...

...of the article that there was evidence that the person did try to go after the homeowner after the homeowner tried to chase the thief off. But I don't think there's been anything official released about it.

[ZombieHorde]

85. Judging only by the OP, this sounds like a case of murder to me. nt

[metalbot]

86. Even by the OP, how could it be murder?

Florida law clearly allows people to use deadly force to protect property. A homicide took place here - a human killed another human, but murder implies that the killing was illegal, and there seems to be nothing in the OP to imply that it was.

If on the other hand you are arguing that he shouldn't have killed the guy because it was just a burglary, we'll have to disagree on that. I've known people who were transformed into nervous wrecks as a result of burglaries. They no longer felt safe in their own homes. They worried about every ring of the doorbell after dark. Burglaries aren't just the theft of property, they are an invasion of the place where you are supposed to feel safe - and that's a crime that people have a right to prevent with deadly force.

[ZombieHorde]

88. subject line

"If on the other hand you are arguing that he shouldn't have killed the guy because it was just a burglary, we'll have to disagree on that. I've known people who were transformed into nervous wrecks as a result of burglaries. They no longer felt safe in their own homes. They worried about every ring of the doorbell after dark."

No one's home was broken into in the OP.

If someone is going to have a nervous breakdown (wreck) because another person stole some stuff out of their shed, then they probably should not own firearms. I have had a person break into my car, which was right next to my house, and I was still mentally stable afterward. I just assumed someone really needed money.

"Burglaries aren't just the theft of property, they are an invasion of the place where you are supposed to feel safe"

This statement does not make any sense. Are there places where ordinary citizens are not supposed to feel safe?

[metalbot]

91. Murder is a crime by definition, homicide is not

"No one's home was broken into in the OP. "

Burglary is burglary. When you are breaking into a locked building to steal something, it's burglary. And under Florida law, you can use deadly force to stop a burglary on your property.

"I have had a person break into my car, which was right next to my house, and I was still mentally stable afterward. I just assumed someone really needed money."

Really? They needed money? Far more likely, they needed drugs, and the way to get them was to take things from your car, and sell them to get drugs. Hopefully the next person who needs money for drugs will limit themselves to your car, and not decide that they could get more for your TV than they could your car stereo. Hopefully they won't be so strung out that if they do decide to break into your home, they'll at least wait for you to not be home.

"This statement does not make any sense. Are there places where ordinary citizens are not supposed to feel safe?"

I would submit that there are millions of Americans who don't feel particularly safe in their own neighborhoods. I'd submit that millions of Americans work jobs in which people are killed or injured every year. When they get home, they want to feel safe. You're lucky that these don't apply to you. For many people "An Englishman's home is his castle" still rings true.