Boy Kills Bear That Wouldn't Leave Family's Front Porch

[rd_kent]

DRIGGS, Idaho — An 11-year-old Idaho boy fatally shot a black bear on his family's front porch after he said it wouldn't leave.

The boy was at his home near Driggs, just west of the Idaho-Wyoming border, with his younger sisters last Wednesday when the bear showed up. He says he couldn't shoo the animal away, so he went and got a gun and shot it.

----------
Glad he was instructed on the proper use of that firearm........



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/15/boy-kills-bear-that-would_n_358602.html

[joeybee12]

1. Glad? Are you nuts?

The bear was not threatening...just call the park service/rangers and they can remove it...no need for this senseless killing...

[Craftsman]

3. Bears can go from 0 to killer in nano seconds, I would have shot too.

[joeybee12]

7. Yeah, and going indoors wan't an option?

God, how eaily you all justify your bloodthirsty natures.

[Craftsman]

12. Because meat taste good.

I hunt deal with it. And if I would have been this kid I would have freezer of meat for the winter and a new rug.

[HALO141]

58. meh... Not so much bear meat. Kinda nasty IMHO. n/t

[PavePusher]

60. Depends a lot on what the bear's diet was...

and how you prep it. Much like any game animal. I've had both ends of the bell curve.

[X_Digger]

21. 200-300lb bear vs door or window.. guess who wins?

The kid had already tried to scare the bear away, it was obviously not afraid of people.

[Patchuli]

35. Hello, earth to joeybee!

Do you not think that going indoors was also an option for the bear??????? 3 little kids?? Thank goodness the boy had the presence of mind to take care of it. Perhaps we would have called the ranger and held the gun at the bear, but if the bear wanted in, the front door wasn't going to stop him. They will rip their way into automobiles for packs of gum. Honestly, you don't know about bears, do you?! I think better the bear than the kids.

[TheWraith]

5. This is rural Wyoming. Even if the park service would respond, it would likely be hours.

During which time there was no guarantee the bear wouldn't become threatening. As I said, an adult would have the luxury of waiting, since they have the strength to better control a big gun. That boy though took the only shot he would be likely to get.

[joeybee12]

9. He tried to shoo it...stupid kid...go indoors, if he had time to "shoo the bear"

he had time to get inside...no common sense whatsoever...probably his parents are trigger-happy as well.

[Craftsman]

13. Most adult black bears are 200+ pounds

Ol' Yogi can get in the house if he wants. If he is not running off he is threat.

[rd_kent]

15. "trigger happy" , "blood thirst"....you have a knack for the hyperbole, don't you?

[AtheistCrusader]

22. Do you live in some decommissioned ICBM silo or some other sort of bear-proof bunker?

Because seriously, a determined black bear can probably take down the door, let alone come through a window on a normal residence.

They often do, in fact, because they smell the food you have in your kitchen or pantry.


Killing the bear might not have been necessary, but is hardly shocking.

[rd_kent]

14. I am so very happy that you are able to know what was happening on that porch

and that you are able to better tell us all how to handle a situation that you were not involved in. Thanks for your input.

[GreenStormCloud]

17. Driggs is NOT in a national park. Why would you call the park service? N/T

[X_Digger]

20. You're a city boy, I'd guess?

This is a rural area, wildlife control who knows how long away, with a black bear big enough to knock a door down in 30 seconds..

Clue for ya.. animal control shoots black bears most of the time, especially if there are reports of 'problem' bears, and time of year.

Dropping a bear into new territory at this time of year is a recipe for more 'senseless death'. Either they end up fighting with other bears in the territory where they're dropped, or they don't have time to find enough food in this new territory and a place to den, therefore they'll starve or maul someone because their hunger is making them even bolder.

[proteus_lives]

26. You're kidding right?

That bear could have reared up and smashed through a door or window.

The kid did the right thing.

[Bonobo]

2. Was it this guy?

[dairydog91]

27. No. It was someone far more dangerous.

[TheWraith]

4. He made the right choice.

As an adult, I probably would have refrained from shooting the bear until and unless it directly became a threat to people or animals. However, a kid that young would have only one real shot before the situation got out of hand. He did it right.

[Arctic Dave]

6. Yep.

[joeybee12]

8. Yeah, don't tell your kid to go indoors in such a situation..

...shoot first, show common sense later...oh wait, common sense apparently has no place here.

[TheWraith]

10. So you prize the life of a common bear over that of a few children?

You have that much of a hate-on for the idea that maybe guns might be a neccessary part of life in some areas?

[WI_DEM]

11. If a big bear is hungry enough don't you think it could get inside too?

In the end, however, it's a shame that people are invading the bear's space forcing them to come into somebody's house. But the 11 year old did what he felt he had to do. Sounds like it was just him and his sisters at home.

[JonQ]

24. Any place where people can live

at one point had large predators that were displaced.

Difference between rural and urban areas in this regard is that urban areas have already successfully exterminated all the large predators in their proximity, rural areas have not.

[taurus145]

33. Not always

Read the news from CO lately? Bears seem to be all over Boulder.

When I lived there, we once had a black bear that got disoriented and wandered almost into Scottsdale from Payson (AZ). Strange stuff happens with animals.

[friendly_iconoclast]

34. EVERYONE here lives where large predators were displaced,

except for the ones who live where they still exist.

[rd_kent]

16. Judging by your posts, you are correct, common sense has no place in your arguments.

Hyperbole, armchair quarterbacking, and gun grabber rhetoric apparently do though.

[GreenStormCloud]

18. Are you a vegetarian? N/T

[friendly_iconoclast]

19. Maybe you shouldn't post while channelling Tim Treadwell.

Just a suggestion, mind you...

[taurus145]

28. Let me guess

You live in an urban area, your closest commune with nature has been in a developed park or developed area of a National or state forest, you're either vegan or vegetarian with leanings towards condemning those who eat meat, you think Birkenstocks are rugged footwear...

In short, you have no idea about rural life other than what you've see on television and read about in magazines, by authors who "roughed it" with a support staff of dozens nearby in case a hangnail rears its ugly head.

You obviously have no clue about actual life in a rural area.

There's an old joke about bear bells - the kind rookies wear to ward off bears while in the woods. "How do you identify bear scat? It's the poop with the little bells in it."

[biermeister]

30. I think this sign sums up your post pretty well

http://board.jokeroo.com/funny-pictures/126745-bear-warning.html

[taurus145]

Yup!

Thanks!

[Patchuli]

36. I'm pretty sure the kids WERE INSIDE

and didn't want the bear INSIDE. You really cannot think that the bear would not break in for food, do you? Please, your naivety is pitiful. I'm a city girl but I do have common sense about bears. He/she was a threat to human life.

[HALO141]

59. Your last name isn't Treadwell by any chance, is it? n/t

[spin]

23. Bear invades home in Boulder County, dies after 10 shots...

It took three rounds from a shotgun, five bullets from a handgun and two shots from a rifle to kill a 120-pound, juvenile male black bear that broke into a Boulder County home early Monday.

The bear break-in was the fourth time in a week hungry bears have gotten into Boulder County residences, all while the residents were home. That has wildlife officials urging residents to take precautions and bear-proof their homes.

Brenda Fischer's barking dog woke her about 2 a.m. Monday. When she went upstairs to investigate, she found a bear in the kitchen of her home on Poorman Road, between Sunshine and Fourmile canyons.

Fischer quickly returned downstairs to wake her two children and her husband.

"As soon as I knew there was a bear inside the house, I went to gather up both our weapon and our ammunition, because they are in two different places, and went to place myself with the weapon between the family and the bear," said Paul Fischer, Brenda's husband.

"As soon as I moved to try and make a place for him to get out, he charged me," Paul Fischer continued. "That's when I shot him, and he kept charging me. I shot him a second time, and he kept charging me. I shot him a third time, and he was finally disoriented enough for me to get away."

The Fischers escaped through a bedroom window, leaving the wounded bear inside the house.
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_12927288?source=rss emphasis added

[spin]

25. Bear invades home in Boulder County, dies after 10 shots...

It took three rounds from a shotgun, five bullets from a handgun and two shots from a rifle to kill a 120-pound, juvenile male black bear that broke into a Boulder County home early Monday.

The bear break-in was the fourth time in a week hungry bears have gotten into Boulder County residences, all while the residents were home. That has wildlife officials urging residents to take precautions and bear-proof their homes.

Brenda Fischer's barking dog woke her about 2 a.m. Monday. When she went upstairs to investigate, she found a bear in the kitchen of her home on Poorman Road, between Sunshine and Fourmile canyons.

Fischer quickly returned downstairs to wake her two children and her husband.

"As soon as I knew there was a bear inside the house, I went to gather up both our weapon and our ammunition, because they are in two different places, and went to place myself with the weapon between the family and the bear," said Paul Fischer, Brenda's husband.

"As soon as I moved to try and make a place for him to get out, he charged me," Paul Fischer continued. "That's when I shot him, and he kept charging me. I shot him a second time, and he kept charging me. I shot him a third time, and he was finally disoriented enough for me to get away."

The Fischers escaped through a bedroom window, leaving the wounded bear inside the house.
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_12927288?source=rss emphasis added

[eqfan592]

29. Reading some of the replies over at huff-post was interesting.

It's fascinating to me how shockingly ignorant and arrogant so many so-called "enlightened" people really are.

[RamboLiberal]

31. I can't fault the kid on this

Maybe some you naive DU posters here would rather this had happened.

ASPEN, Colo. - Wildlife officers are looking for a bear that forced its way into a home in the Rocky Mountain ski resort town of Aspen and attacked the homeowner, and may have been behind other break-ins this summer.

The unidentified woman suffered deep scratches to her back and chest when the bear struck at her late Monday but she didn't have to be hospitalized, said Randy Hampton, spokesman for the Colorado Division of Wildlife.

Hampton said the bear forced its way in through French doors that were closed but not locked. Based on how it entered the house and its description, officers believe the same bear may have entered and tried to break into other homes in the area. They plan to euthanize the bear if they find it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32468263/

BOULDER, Colo. -- A Boulder County family that has watched bears roam through their neighborhood for the last 10 to 15 years got an up close and personal visit from a bruin early Monday morning.

The family told Boulder County deputies they were awakened when Sienna, the family's Russell Terrier-Shepherd mix, started barking. The family saw that a bear had entered their home after ripping off the screen door and was rummaging through the pantry.

-----

Brenda's husband, Paul, said he was trying to give the bear room to maneuver out the house.

"As I was trying to do that, the bear charged at me. I had the shotgun and I shot it and it kept charging," Paul said.

-----

This was the fourth time in five days a bear has broken into a Boulder County home in search of food.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/20191447/detail.html

[DU GrovelBot]

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[depakid]

37. Dumb fuck

All you needed was this:



Now you have a carcass to dispose of- rather than a bear who's run off for good.

The again, you could jerk it and get trichinosis... yum.

[Merchant Marine]

38. Coming from our resident Australian Bear Expert...

You sure love to post about things you know nothing about, eh? Bears are deadly, territorial predators, and can be exceedingly dangerous when they're desperately hungry. Bear Mace can easily aggravate a desperate animal. Plus the kid already tried to scare it off.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dairydog91]

40. Ah, our wildlife expert from the land of that most savage of bears: The Dreaded Koala Bear

Bear mace has a maximum range of maybe 30 feet, and I think it's optimal range is maybe 15-20 feet. That's terrifyingly close to an animal that can reach pretty good speeds over short distances (And 15-20 feet is certainly a short distance). A gun offers much better stand off capability. You can also shoot through the window or the door, and you don't have to hit the bear in the eyes or mouth to incapacitate it.

Edit: I also love how you avoided the article about the bear that busted into the home.

Edit2: A couple bears wander through my neck of the woods on a routine basis. I've never shot them; they are scared enough by humans that banging some pots was enough. The coyotes, on the other hand, will launch mock attacks when I walk the dog (They barrel out of the woods maybe 50 feet ahead and behind me, and then run circles around us). They're getting too used to eating people's pets, and they will get shot whenever they pop up.

[depakid]

41. Fear, fear fear- Kill!

And no science nor responsible experience.

Cracks me up. As it does others who've spent any time actually among these critters, for sure.

[PavePusher]

42. "You're not only a frady cat, but post stupid things as well"

Heh. Have you ever noticed how dark your cookware is?

Perhaps you should wash it....

[depakid]

43. Sorry- edited out the faidy cat bit- though it does apply

You're afraid of coyotes! LOL!

Why? Because they do what coyotes do- they eat small animals that they can catch.

Well, duh.

That's what coyotes do... and together they make a scary sound, Like a pack of wild headhunters.

Ever heard it?

[dairydog91]

44. Yes, they might eat my dog, as she's too small to defend herself.

And, I might add, overconfidence is generally pretty stupid. Some of these suckers are big for coyotes: Small German Shepherd size or so. A good size pack could kill a human if they wished to do so, and I have no idea whether these particular animals have been socialized to fear humans enough. They'd probably "only" try to snatch my dog, but, hey, I like the dog.

[depakid]

47. Make sure she's inside then- as well any cats

at night.

Coyotes are the consummate opportunists.

Bears on the other hand- they're hungry, bumbling animals.

No sense in wondering about which wild animal is "smarter" -animals species are as smart as they need to be to survive.

Bumbling about and being big- but not too big, with a nose that rivals any dog works for today's bears.

That's why they're here.

People generally don't need to shoot them, any more than they do raccoons.

[taurus145]

50. Afraid, no. Respect, definitely.

They're feral pack animals. I've seen them bring down full grown cattle - mine.

Rabies is not uncommon with them, as with many wild animals.

C'mon, kids, let's go pat the nice foamy coyote.

[friendly_iconoclast]

52. "They eat small animals that they can catch". Like, say, children or hikers:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x264383

I think she was bigger than an 11 year old boy, wouldn't you agree?

[Katya Mullethov]

56. The organic approach

If you dont like bearspray with environmentaly unfriendly CO2 aerosol propellants , or toxic lead bullets with the resulting noxious gas emitted by primers and gunpowder........ .

See clip # 1 at right for Grizzly .
http://soundboard.com/sb/Timothy_Treadwell_Soundbo.aspx

[PavePusher]

54. Huh. I guess someone won Darwins anti-prize...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=264383&mesg_id=264383

[taurus145]

57. I don't know much, but I do know this

The U.S. National Park Service probably has more experience with and probably employs more bear experts than just about any organization around.

One of their requirements for many park ranger in Alaska and other states is that they are willing to carry and use firearms to stop bear attacks. Carry is not an option it is a job requirement.

If bears are so peaceful and not dangerous in the least, why on Earth would the NPS require those firearms?

[friendly_iconoclast]

53. He's forgotten more about thylacines than you'll ever know, pal.

Have a little respect...

[spin]

45. Might be a lot of edible meat on that carcass...

I hear bear meat is very tasty.

I know that wild boar boar and venison taste fantastic.

[dairydog91]

46. I heard that it's greasy as hell.

Maybe that particular person didn't prepare it right. And I agree on venison, it's delicious and makes for great home-made sausage.

Snake, however, will always be regrettable.

[depakid]

48. Greasy, gamey and often ridden with parasites

If someone's hunting bear for meat- then let's just say they're pretty hard up.

More like they think that they're "cool" for bagging one.

With a rifle from afar.

[Merchant Marine]

51. What about people hunting with bows or muzzleloaders?

They not "manly" enough for you?

[spin]

55. I checked on the internet forums...

and many people felt that bear meat was great. For example:

My friend Terry killed a black bear a few days ago and he gave me a nice roast from one of the hindquarters. I had no idea how to prepare it, and truthfully did not expect to like it. I really wanted to taste the meat and considered several recipes, but decided that I would just season it lightly and put it on the barbeque. I seared it on both sides just like you would grill a steak, and then allowed it to cook on a low fire for a little longer. When I felt it was done I cut it open and found it had just a little pink in the middle, just like a good steak. It was really delicious. I was very surprised. I have always heard that bear meat was "gamey", greasy, and sweet, but that was not the case. The meat had no gamey or sweet taste, and it was not greasy. The raw meat had a greasy feel to it, but the cooked meat was just like beef. It was really wonderful!
http://www2.huntinfo.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/003365.html

I may get a chance at bear meat as I know a couple of hunters who hunt black bear. After eating venison and wild boar, I'm willing to try bear meat. Of course I intend to thoroughly cook it to avoid Trichinosis.

Trichinosis, also called trichinellosis, or trichiniasis, is a parasitic disease caused by eating raw or undercooked pork and wild game infected with the larvae of a species of roundworm Trichinella spiralis, commonly called the trichina worm. There are eight Trichinella species; five species are encapsulated and three are non-encapsulated. <1> Only three Trichinella species are known to cause Trichinosis: T. spiralis, T. nativa, and T. britovi. <1> The few cases in the United States are mostly the result of eating undercooked game, bear meat, or home reared pigs. It is more common in developing countries where meat fed to pigs is raw or undercooked.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichinosis

[taurus145]

49. You use that shit on the wrong bear

and you'll be bear shit tomorrow.

I'll trust my .300 wby mag.

BTW. Visits to the zoo don't count for real bear encounters.

[Euromutt]

61. Research indicates bear spray is highly effective, actually

See: Smith, T. et al. "Efficacy of Bear Deterrent Spray in Alaska," Journal of Wildlife Management, Volume 72, Issue 3 (April 2008) pp. 640–645 http://www.wildlifejournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.2193%2F2006-452

We analyzed 83 bear spray incidents involving brown bears (Ursus arctos; 61 cases, 74%), black bears (Ursus americanus; 20 cases, 24%), and polar bears (Ursus maritimus; 2 cases, 2%). Of the 72 cases where persons sprayed bears to defend themselves, 50 (69%) involved brown bears, 20 (28%) black bears, and 2 (3%) polar bears. Red pepper spray stopped bears' undesirable behavior 92% of the time when used on brown bears, 90% for black bears, and 100% for polar bears. Of all persons carrying sprays, 98% were uninjured by bears in close-range encounters. All bear-inflicted injuries (n = 3) associated with defensive spraying involved brown bears and were relatively minor (i.e., no hospitalization required).

According to a column in Field & Stream (http://www.fieldandstream.com/articles/hunting/2008/12/use-pepper-spray-instead-guns-stop-charging-grizzly), Smith's research into use of firearms against bears found that bullets managed to "stop bears' undesirable behavior" about 2/3 of the time, and that it took an average of four shots to stop a bear.

See also this article by Smith in Alaska Magazine: http://www.alaskamagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=601&Itemid=446

That said, however, it's one thing to opt for bear spray when you're on the bear's turf, hiking or hunting, and you just have to keep the critter off you until you leave. When the bear is on your front porch, and seems to be so habituated to humans that it won't leave, it may be too late to try to limit yourself to non-lethal options.

[taurus145]

64. It works pretty well, but

I don't want to risk being one of the 2%.

At the risk of opening a huge can of worms; there's a reason cops carry pepper spray, tasers and firearms. When used correctly, only the firearm works every time to stop the problem.

[Euromutt]

65. I see your point, but what we don't know...

...is what percentage of the people who used--or tried to use--firearms to stop bears got hurt. And I'm afraid I'm not willing to pay to read the whole study. However, given that the number of effective stops was markedly lower with guns (67%) than with bear spray (92%), it strikes me as plausible that a higher percentage of the people who used guns suffered injury.

Though that having been said, we also do have to take into account that there is wider variety in firearms than there is in bear spray, and some people using guns may have been using insufficiently powerful weapons. (Cue that old joke about the guy saying he was going to take a .357 revolver to Alaska for bear protection, and the Alaska hand telling him to file off the front sight so it wouldn't hurt quite as much when the bear shoved the gun up his ass.) For all I know, there may a couple of specific types of firearm--e.g. a short-barreled .44 Magnum revolver (like the Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan http://www.ruger.com/products/superRedhawkAlaskan/index.html), or a lever-action rifle in .45-70 with an 18.5" barrel (like the Marlin M1895G http://marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/bigbore/1895G.asp)--that are more effective than bear spray, while smaller caliber handguns lack sufficient power and bolt-action rifles lack speed, just to give a hypothetical example.

[taurus145]

66. I was thinking rifles

Black bear country, no grizzly: .300 mag

Grizzlies around: .375 H&H or larger

Handgun choice for either: .500 S&W

[NotGivingUp]

71. Thanks for this information. Very helpful! n/t

[GreenStormCloud]

62. Bears, like humans, are not all alike in how they respond to pepper spray.

Most bears will be deterred, some will merely get pissed off.

http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF12/1245.html

In the 16 cases Herrero and Higgins looked at in which pepper spray was used against brown bears in sudden encounters, 15 brown bears turned away after receiving a direct blast to the eyes and nose. Three of the sprayed brown bears ended up attacking and injuring the sprayer anyway, but Herrero said it didn't appear a face full of pepper made the bears any more aggressive than they normally would have been.

Of 20 brown bears sprayed while searching for human food, garbage, or just appearing overly curious, Herrero and Higgins found all 20 stopped what they were doing, and 18 left (only two of those 18 came back later).

Blasted black bears didn't seem as affected by the spray, especially those with a taste for garbage. Nineteen of 26 black bears sprayed while acting curious or searching for human food and garbage stopped what they were doing, and 14 of 26 bears left the area. But six of those 14 came back.

"The spray appears ineffective as a means of deterring black bears that are strongly conditioned to human foods and garbage," Herrero said.


Looks like you don't know as much about bears as you claim to. 12 of 26 black bears that were sprayed didn't leave.

[friendly_iconoclast]

63. Looks like our 'expert' on black bears did his research at Jellystone Park

It seems he has "no science nor responsible experience"

[east texas lib]

67. It's the vegamite!

It affects the higher reasoning areas of the brain. Deadly stuff!;-)

[GreenStormCloud]

68. Is that anything like Vitameatavegamin ?

I wonder how many will catch that referance?

BTW - I saw the original episode the first time it aired.

[taurus145]

69. Ask Ethel

n/t

[GreenStormCloud]

70. When a black bear goes bad.

http://www.dailyitem.com/0100_news/local_story_302231649.html?start:int=15

SUMMARY:

A 400 lbs black bear lost his fear of humans and began to kill and eat livestock, including in pens close to people's homes. Children narrowly missed encounters with the bear. For 14 months the state did little. The county conservation officer set a trap, baited with donuts, but the bear refused and continued to kill and eat goats, domestic rabbits from cages, calves and other livestock.

Finally, a farmer shot the bear as it was eating one of his goats. He used a 30-06. He has been fined $168.50 for illegally killing the bear. Other farmers took up a collection for his fine.
------------
Once a bear loses its fear of humans, it can become very dangerous. The bear on the porch appears to have lost its fear of humans.

[taurus145]

72. One more reason

farmers and ranchers continue to practice the three S's; Shoot, Shovel, Shut Up.

edited for bad typing