TEXAS: 2008 Crime Report - Firearms Used In Only 1% Of Domestic Violence Cases.

[GreenStormCloud]

"The most common weapon involved in family violence
cases was physical force through the use of
hands, feet, and fists (strong-arm), which accounts
for 78 percent of the incidents. The Texas Family
Violence law considers the use of threats and
intimidation to be serious enough to report and,
thus, 9 percent of the reports were listed as involving
no weapons. Knives or cutting instruments (4
percent), blunt objects (3 percent), firearms (1 percent),
and other (5 percent) account for the
remaining cases. Considered as other weapons
were motor vehicles, poison, explosives, fire,
drugs, unknown, and miscellaneous weapons."

It breaks down as:
Firearms 1%

Knife 4%

Blunt Object 3%

Other 5%

None (Verbal threats) 9%

Strong arm 78%

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/pages/crimestatistics.htm
------------
Getting those women away from the abusers and arming them will protect them for the 99% who don't use guns, and give them an even chance against the 1% that do. Guns are not the problem in domestic violence, abusive spouses are the problem. By the time it gets to the abuser using a gun he usually has a police record already and can't legally have a gun. If he has one (Likely he does.) it is already illegal. Taking guns away from the rest of us does nothing to help any of those women.

[depakid]

1. The problem is lethality- and yes, keeping guns out of abusers' and suicidal hands

does save lives. Like these ones:

Robert Beiser threatened his wife, repeatedly telling her he planned to buy guns, in the weeks before he fatally shot her and then killed himself at the office where she worked in Tualatin, according to a man Teresa Beiser was dating during the Beisers' separation.

Robert Beiser was a "Jekyll and Hyde," according to Mike Klettke of Portland, who was Teresa's bodybuilding partner and, he said, her boyfriend.

"When the separation and the divorce started coming into play, he became more hostile and lots of fights ensued and more threats were made," Klettke said. "He kept telling her he was going to buy some guns.

Robert and Teresa were attempting to move on, and Robert had gone on dates with other women, Klettke said.

Even so, Robert continued to react to Teresa with hostility, and she felt trapped, Klettke said. "She felt boxed in, and felt like she didn't have a choice unless she wanted to uproot and go into hiding."

Teresa Beiser also told another friend recently she was scared of her husband, who had bought several guns upon learning his wife had filed for divorce.

Thom Bowser, a personal trainer at the Clackamas-based Health Habit gym and friend of Teresa Beiser, said she was alarmed by her husband’s recent gun purchases.

“She was scared," said Bowser, who told Teresa to report her concerns to police. "She definitely had big concerns about him."

More: http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/11/post_27.html

Or like this guy from today:

Caldwell County man shoots and kills wife

http://www.wcnc.com/news/Caldwell-County-man-shoots-and-kills-wife-70120317.html

Though of course, sometimes the tables turn:

Shot Husband Climbed Out Bathroom Window To Escape Wife

The Villages is supposed to be a quiet place where people go to retire, but Thursday night it was the scene of a shooting and a standoff. The woman accused of shooting her husband is in jail and she won't be allowed to bond out.

The woman said she was fed up with her husband trying to control her, so she shot him.

While 51-year-old Denise Textor faced a judge, investigators searched her home for answers and a weapon. She is charged with attempted first-degree murder after shooting her husband.

“They've been married 17 years. They retired down here from New Jersey,” said Lt. Steve Binegar, Sumter County Sheriff’s Office.

Dennis Textor is a former law enforcement officer and Denise told deputies he was controlling, but investigators say there's no history of domestic violence, at least until Thursday night when she shot him twice in the chest with a .38-revolver while he was taking a shower

More: http://www.wftv.com/countybycounty/21608863/detail.html

[GreenStormCloud]

4. It is already against the law for a domestic abuser to have a gun.

Do you want to make it doubleplus illegal? The abuser will ignore those laws too.

Suiciders will simply switch methods. Suicide was well known before the invention of guns, and some gun-free socities have high suicide rates. How can they have high suicide rates if they don't have guns to do it with?

How will taking my gun away from me help the situation? It will only make me vulnerable to criminals.

[friendly_iconoclast]

11. We could work on more intervention, to identify those at risk to commit violence.

Like a recent case where a mentally ill man killed his father and sister. He had been free despite several arrests
and violent incidents. No one had had him civilly committed, even though he clearly was a danger to himself and others.

Law enforcement and the courts just doesn't take family violence as seriously as they should.

[rl6214]

19. you worry about your country

and stay out of our business.

[ThoughtCriminal]

2. % that resulted in death would be a more useful stat - nt

[GreenStormCloud]

So it is OK to savagely beat a spouse as long as they aren't killed? N/T

[ThoughtCriminal]

8. No, but the stat is useless

as far as arguing that guns are not extremely fatal in domestic violence.

Otherwise the thread is a big so-what.

[Euromutt]

22. Read the report

The report states that 0.1% of incidents resulted in homicide (murder or non-negligent manslaughter), so even assuming that firearms account for all the homicides (which is unlikely), we're still looking at 9 non-fatal firearm assaults (which may include threats) for every fatal one, from which we can conclude that the presence of a firearm does not automatically turn every domestic violence situation into a lethal one. In fact, at least 90% of the time, it doesn't. Evidently (based on this particular evidence, at least), having the will to kill a family member plays a larger role than the possession of a lethal weapon.

[Euromutt]

3. Regarding legality of an abuser possessing a firearm

It's strictly speaking only illegal after the abuser has been placed in a condition in which he is no longer eligible to possess a firearm through legal adjudication, such as being convicted of a domestic violence misdemeanor, being placed under a restraining order, etc.

But I take your point that such a person should have been adjudicated as such by that point. Raising awareness of domestic violence in the criminal justice system and the general public will do considerably more to protect the victims than any gun control measure.

[oneshooter]

5. Of course ya'll have your own family problems

Two shot in funeral brawl
A 55-year-old man and a 54-year-old woman are accused of discharging a firearm with intent to cause fear.

WA police say a brawl involving about 100 people erupted as tensions escalated following the funeral of an indigenous leader in the town.

A 36-year-old woman from the southern Perth suburb of Armadale is in a critical condition at Royal Perth Hospital (RPH).

A 23-year-old man from Narrogin was also injured and is in a stable condition.

Getting kind a rough in gun free Oz.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

[friendly_iconoclast]

7. Hush your mouth! We don't discuss the problems of such a fine society here

Didn't you get the memo?

[divideandconquer]

9. The US has 3 times murder rate of OZ, I'll take their results

By almost any measure they're more free society than the US and they voted guns off the island.

<http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita>
<http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_pri_per_cap-crime-prisoners-per-capita>

[depakid]

10. They're miniscule compared to Texas!

and other states where guns & prisons proliferate.

And they're big news, whereas yours are so frequent, that they barely merit a snippet in the local papers.

[friendly_iconoclast]

6. Your source indicates ca. 194 "family violence" murders in TX in 2008

How many of those were committed with guns?

[GreenStormCloud]

12. It doesn't give a precise breakdown for type of weapon for...

domestic violence murders.

The breakdown if for violence, mostly before it becomes murder. It is kind of late to help the abused person after they are killed.

[friendly_iconoclast]

13. It might help if non-fatal use of a weapon were treated more seriously

Most murderers don't "snap". They usually act out prior to killing someone. That's the time to intervene, instead of
going the "catch and release" route that happens too many times.

[depakid]

14. Unfortunately, Saturday morning, this guy did:

NEAR LA HOMA — A security guard admitted to killing his wife and another man using his service weapon early Saturday morning, authorities said.

Sheriff’s deputies rushed to Juan Huerta’s apartment near Bentsen Palm Drive and 4 Mile Line about 12:55 a.m. after receiving a 9-1-1 call about the shooting, according to a news release issued by the Hidalgo County Sheriff’s Office.

Huerta, who stood outside the complex as he waited for authorities to arrive, told deputies he arrived home early from work that day and saw his wife, 23-year-old Alma Huerta, in the family’s backyard hugging another man, the news release states. Huerta told deputies he "snapped," pulled out his service weapon and shot 24-year-old Juan Gamez. The 37-year-old security guard eventually turned the gun on his wife and shot her four times.

Huerta said he then called 9-1-1 to report the shooting.

<snip>

Magnum Force Security owner Adrian Garcia said Huerta used an alternate name that turned up clean after a criminal background check through the Texas Department of Public Safety. The man applied for a position at Magnum Force Security as 33-year-old Luis E. Huerta, though he asked co-workers to call him "Juan."

Garcia said he hired Huerta a few weeks ago because the man claimed to have 11 years of experience, even though Garcia had no proof that claim was true. "I’m not going to lie — I thought it was weird, awkward," Garcia said. "But I believed him because he knows more than me (about private security). He knows job sites, companies, owners."

More: http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/security-105079-admits-shooting.html

[Euromutt]

15. He *said* he snapped

There are couple of reasons he might say that, even if it wasn't true.

The first is that such an oft-repeated phrase it's a cliche, like "it all happened so fast" or "I don't know what you're talking about." It's something you feel like you're supposed to say in a certain situation.

The second is more sinister. Let's say that, hypothetically, Mr. Huerta had harbored suspicions for some time his wife was having it off with the late Mr. Gamez, even to the point of telling her something to the effect of "if I see that son of a bitch Gamez here again, I'm going to put a bullet in him." Do you think he's going to tell the cops that, and give the prosecutor grounds to argue premeditation? Of course, if he had said something to that effect to his wife, her testimony would contradict his. So he had to make sure she couldn't talk to the cops, which is why he shot her. Four times, to make sure she was definitely dead.

Personally, I'm inclined to say that taking a murderer at his word is more than a little naive.

[depakid]

16. His employer said the guy was very calm

Looks to me more like jealousy and the present ability to respond with deadly force.

Take the gun out of the equation and at least one of these two is still alive- and the prison system has one less lifer to support. Or execute.

[Euromutt]

17. Evidently, Mr. Huerta was able to pull the wool over his employer's eyes before

Gave a false name for the background check, claimed experience he didn't have... His employer doesn't sound like the most accomplished judge of character, nor too difficult to mislead.

And frankly, I don't give a toss what it looks like to you, depa. I think we've established fairly well that you have a severe case of confirmation/assimilation bias going on where privately owned firearms are concerned, so the fact that you refuse to believe this incident could not have happened without a firearm is evidence of exactly nothing.

[taurus145]

18. Using his service weapon. Interesting.

Was it furnished to him by the company? If so, how would a ban of private ownership have helped save the victims?

[depakid]

21. Keep it in a lock box at work

for use on duty- like Australian police do.

[GreenStormCloud]

25. That would not have made any difference.

He deserted his post to be able to catch his wife. Do you really believe that he would have dropped his gun off at the lock box? This guy was planning that murder.

[depakid]

27. Either your reading comprehension is lacking or you're simply making up facts

Leaving early from work isn't "deserting his post" -and if the gun had been required to have been checked in, he likely wouldn't have had it when he "snapped."

This is why they do it that way down under.

[GreenStormCloud]

28. Sounds like you have never worked as a security guard.

He didn't "snap". He deserted his post, taking his gun with him, to murder his wife and her lover.

As I have posted before, in other threads, I am a retired private investigator. As such, I have worked with security guards and guard companies before, and in my early days (before I got my PI licesnse) I was a security guard. For a guard, leaving early from work is deserting your post.

[depakid]

30. You're making an assumption that's not supported one way or another

There are any number of reasons why he could have been off his shift early- and you're inferring motive when there's no evidence to that effect whatsoever.

Could just as easily been akin to the typical Heat of Passion moment that results in manslaughter.

[friendly_iconoclast]

32. And you are accepting the word of a double murderer with quite an incentive to lie

Being that Texas rather likes the death penalty, the difference between first- and second-degree murder means either
two life terms or the death penalty for Huerta.

Yeah, if I were him, I'd claim to have "snapped", too.

[depakid]

33. Just looking at the facts reported in the story- which are eminently plausuble

If the guy's rational- cool and calm enough to consider the difference between the death penalty and life in prison- or if he premeditated then wouldn't one expect that he'd have some sort of escape plan- or at least a better plan than to say "I snapped, don't execute me?"

No, Huerta most likely came home and shot the two in a fit of jealous rage. In other words- he snapped. Pretty run of the mill stuff. At least in the states.

[Euromutt]

36. That's right, the only possible correct explanation is the one that supports your argument

Confirmation bias (or myside bias) is a tendency for people to confirm their preconceptions or hypotheses, independently of whether or not they are true. People can reinforce their existing attitudes by selectively collecting new evidence, by interpreting evidence in a biased way or by selectively recalling information from memory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias, italics added.

Okay, let's assume for the moment that you're correct, and the guy actually did "just snap." Given that he entered--without warning--such a homicidal rage that he murdered two people. Why is it implausible that, given these circumstances, Huerta couldn't have used some bladed or bludgeoning implement to murder Gamez and Mrs. Huerta? Why couldn't he have beaten them to death with a shovel, or an axe, or a knife, or any other improvised bladed or bludgeoning implement? Why could such murderous rage only have resulted in actual murders because Huerta had a firearm?

[GreenStormCloud]

34. Security guard shifts don't end early. They are relieved by the next shift.

Yes, I am inferring motive. Remember, I am a retired PI, so I spent some years being professionally suspicious. If I were the police I would not believe him and would investigate along the line that he planned it. Snapping is extremely rare. There are almost always predictors, but they are ignored.

If I were police, I would assume that he knew of the affair and had a neighbor or friend call him when the lover was visiting. I would check his cell phone log and question any calls that he made or recieved shortly before he left. I would question his boss about the leaving early, expecting to find that he has deserted his post. I would check his background for previous violence - guess what - that has already been done and he is violent.

I will attempt to follow the case in the area news and will post updates as they occur.

Yes, he was rational to make up a stupid plan. Lots of criminals are pretty stupid. There is even a website devoted to stupid criminals. It is rather entertaining to laugh at some of the stupidity that criminals display.

[GreenStormCloud]

35. He was illegally armed, and illegally hired, even under his alias.

In Texas, a person has to specifically licensed to be a security guard at all. The be armed required an additional license. Both require fingerprinting. The armed license requires and FBI background investigation. I checked the website that Texas maintains for armed guards and he is not there under Magnum Force. There hasn't been time yet for the site to update to remove him as an employee as it is the weekend. He didn't have a license under either his own name or under his alias. The guard company did not do due diligence and almost certainly violated the law in hiring him for an armed position.

The gun almost certainly belonged to the murderer, not to the company. In Texas, it is fairly rare for a security company to issue guns. They require the employee to provide his own. On that matter, I speak from experience with Texas guard companies.

[friendly_iconoclast]

31. I doubt the 'required' check-in would have stopped him, as he was bent on murder

As other posters have pointed out, his now ex-supervisor isn't the brightest bulb in the lighting aisle.

[taurus145]

26. Lock box?

That makes it incredibly handy in an emergency. The couple of seconds taken to retrieve a service weapon for a cop can make the difference between life and death.

Want to bet on how long that will take to change when a cop gets stabbed, bludgeoned, or shot by a criminal while trying to get to his weapon?

[GreenStormCloud]

29. I think depakid means in the lockbox between shifts.

IOW, Guard arrives, time clocks in, gets gun from box and put it on, stands watch, - end of watch, takes gun off and puts it in lockbox, time clocks out. Or, as we used to do at one place I worked, the gun was passed from guard to guard.

I don't think he means that the guard would have to get it from a box if he was under attack. I hope the they haven't gotten that stupid down there.

[taurus145]

20. His service weapon?

Was it furnished to him by the company? If so, how would a ban of private ownership have helped save the victims?

[GreenStormCloud]

24. That was premeditated murder.

Security guards don't just arrive home early from work. A guard isn't supposed to leave his post until he is relieved. He deserted his post to get home to catch his wife and Gamez.

[GreenStormCloud]

23. Totally agree. N/T