Boyfriend kills her, self: cops

[struggle4progress]

- A day after a woman moved out of her boyfriend's house in Bayonne, the boyfriend apparently went to her parents' home here and shot and killed her before turning the gun on himself, authorities said yesterday ...

http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/bayonne/index.ssf?/base/news-5/1257492317201560.xml&coll=3

[Hoopla Phil]

1. More proof that women should learn to use arms.

Spam much?

[sharesunited]

3. Guns as solution to guns. More of the same poison proclaimed as antidote.

[Hoopla Phil]

5. Reality is a bitch ain't it. Deal with it.

[MineralMan]

12. And the stories being posted are reality. You just don't like

that particular reality. Deal with it.

[Hoopla Phil]

22. Ha Ha Ha. I DO deal with it. I got my CHL and legally carry a pistol. LOL

You are RIGHT! Those stories ARE real. That's why I legally carry my handgun. So how exactly do YOU deal with it? LOL

[MajorChode]

23. I choose not to live with irrational fear

YMMV.

[Hoopla Phil]

27. LMAO!!! Which is it? The anti above said that the stories were real and you

say you choose not to live with irrational fear. You guys need to get together and figure your strategy out. LOL

As far as fear goes: I put on my seat belt in case of accident (is that irrational fear?), I have fire insurance on my home (you have any idea what the odds of a fire are? Is that an irrational fear?) FEMA says to keep 3 weeks of food and water in your home along with plastic sheeting and duct tape in case of a chemical or biological attack (is that irrational fear?)

So, in the remote chance that you are involved in, or witness to, a violent attack what do you plan to do? Do you have a plan? Have you ever heard the words "I never thought it could happen to me"?

[MajorChode]

31. Well, GWB got elected twice on irrational fear

So does it surprise me that the government would try to stoke those coals? Nope. And the recommendation you cite about plastic sheeting and duct tape was laughed about the world over precisely because it was nothing more than a pathetic response to irrational fear.

Seat belts have a proven track record of making one safer. Not so for your metal pacifier, and statistics suggest the exact opposite. I don't really spend as much time dreaming about being involved in a violent attack as you do. I've managed to live over half my life without ever being in a situation where I thought a gun would make me safer, and I don't expect I ever will.

You simply assume that your metal pacifier will make people safer. If that were true the US (which has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world) should be the safest, but the reality is when it comes to gun homicides, the US is in 3rd world territory.

[Hoopla Phil]

37. Ha Ha Ha. " 'only' 80,000–82,000 defensive uses of guns during. . ."

http://www.pulpless.com/gunclock/lott.pdf

National Crime Victimization Survey, Cook further states that each
year there are ‘‘only’’ 80,000–82,000 defensive uses of guns during assaults,
robberies, and household burglaries


Yep, reality sure is a bitch ain't it? CHL has a proven track record of working. Too bad so many that are shown refuse to see.

[MajorChode]

42. Quite the source you have there

First of all, you're citing a survey, which is about as useful as a bucket of warm spit regarding such things as gun owners notoriously inflate the impact that their guns had on the outcome of potential crime. The author you cite is a well known purveyor of bullshit.
http://reason.com/archives/2003/05/01/the-mystery-of-mary-rosh

So if you're going to quote known bullshitter, John Lott, surely you won't have a problem if I post statistics from the VPC, right? I'd hate to think you were a hypocrite.
http://www.vpc.org/press/0905gundeath.htm

Cheers!

[MajorChode]

8. Didn't you get the memo? Only more gun nuts can keep us safe from the gun nuts

It's the same logic as coming across someone who is hitting themselves across the head with a baseball bat and instead of trying to get them to stop, you ask them if they have another bat.

[Hoopla Phil]

19. LOL. Funny post. Not logical, very rhetorical, but very funny.

[MajorChode]

33. It's not too far off, really

It was intended to be rhetorical and it's a helluva lot more logical than the more guns = safer bullshit meme, so it's quite the appropriate response. The funny part was just icing on the cake.

[Hoopla Phil]

38. I don't know what's more funny. The rhetoric or that you believe it. LMFAO. Ha Ha Ha.

[MajorChode]

45. I'd say your silly half-fast responses are the greatest entertainment value

Cheers!

[eqfan592]

47. No, trust me, you're wrong. Your ingorant blathering is FAR more entertaning.

9 out of 10 people I've had read it agree! :P

[MajorChode]

56. Here's the real ignorance

I really don't give a shit if 100 out of 100 people (who no doubt helped you with the big words) agree. That's nothing more than an argumentum ad populum fallacy (AKA bullshit), and really just speaks volumes about the circles you run with that must always agree with you.

Furthermore, those who say in the absolute that others are "wrong" are generally those who bear the biggest burden of ignorance because they have no interest in being taught or even discussing anything. Ignorance is temporary. Stupid is forever. Just because you don't agree or 9 mouthbreathers don't agree, doesn't mean I'm wrong or you're right. But that's what I really love about those who are so convinced they have the one and only truth about everything. They are an endless source of entertainment. So don't ever change being you. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Have a nice day.

[SteveM]

49. actually, "More guns=more violence/crime/murders" is a gun-controller's meme...

And as you no doubt know, that contention is not borne out by the data. Since the mid-1990s violent crime has been on a steady DECLINE. During that same time the number of firearms in civilian hands has INCREASED from 190,000,000 to over 300,000,000.

Thus the gun-controller's mantra "More guns=more violence/crime/murders" is not supported.

[MajorChode]

58. Give me a break

99.9% of statistics are bullshit, and 99.9% of the posts in this topic forum are omnidirectional. So regardless of which way the meme goes somewhere else, it almost exclusively goes one direction in this forum, so let's not pretend otherwise, OK?

Most reasonably intelligent people understand the concept that correlation does not prove causation. Lots of things happened in the 90's. Clinton's crime bill in the early 90's put thousands of more officers on the streets. The surge in the economy reduced crime. Lots of gun nuts bought more guns because they were afraid the government was going to come for their guns and bibles. Since it's pretty hard for them to use more than 1 at a time, your correlation between the volume of guns and the reduction of crime is mindless at best and dishonest at worst. Statistics aren't worth more than a rubber in the collection plate if you don't know how to interpret them.

[eqfan592]

59. Wow, talk about dishonesty!

You're just overflowing with it! 99.9% of statistics are bullshit? Why not just say "Any statistics that prove me wrong are bullshit?" You loose all credibility with that jaw-droppingly ignorant statement alone.

And you're correct, correlation does not prove causation. Yet you continue to argue that increased firearms ownership causes higher crime rates. You just countered your own argument! VERY smooth!

So, guns do not correlate to crime, therefore guns should not be restricted beyond how they are already. I'm glad you've seen the light!

[MajorChode]

60. Did I really need to include the sarcasm smiley?

If you don't see the humor in the phrase, "99.9% of statics are bullshit" you must live a truly depressing life.

Ok, here it is, just for you and anyone else who got their hair blown back by my point sailing over their head...

:sarcasm:

And I'm not arguing that correlation proves causation. I included the link as a counter to someone who posted bullshit statics from a known bullshitter and even identified the bias of my source without stating any conclusions of my own. My point was that anyone can post statistics from biased sources, and I didn't even go as far as the respondent who posted from someone who pulls his own statistics right out of his ass.

Jebus H. Christmas on a pogo stick, must I explain everything in big bird words?

You should learn to read between the lines. There's volumes of information you're missing out on. Or not. I can always use the chuckle.

Cheers!

[eqfan592]

62. Nice try, junior.

You backpedal with the best of 'em. Sorry, but I'm pretty much done with you. You've proven not only your dishonesty (Sarcasm? Really? That's the best you could come up with for your shockingly lame argument?) but you're irrationality.


How's this for reading between the lines?

__________________

You fail.
__________________

;)

[MajorChode]

63. I don't care who you are. That's funny right there.

Good thing you're done. There's a lot to be said for someone who knows when to quit while they're behind. You've truly surprised me there for the better and I commend you for it.

Cheers!

[struggle4progress]

6. You're not happy to have a round-out of the weekly gun news?

[MajorChode]

9. Only happy stories are allowed

You know, the ones with the rabid criminal gets conquered by the gun toting hero who saves the day by terminating him with extreme prejudice just like in the movies.

The far more common stories about cold blooded murder, senseless gun violence, suicides, aggravated assault, and mass killings are heavily frowned upon.

[Hoopla Phil]

20. I practice the same philosophy as your avatar. I carry a gun, same as she did.

Legally of course.

[struggle4progress]

25. You're a highly visible public figure getting regular death threats from rightwing extremists

because of your courageous refusal to obey racist laws?

[Hoopla Phil]

28. No, I am forced to live in a violent world without the aid of armed guards. So

I take responsibility for my own safety. As such, I take my cue from your avatar and arm myself legally.

[MajorChode]

34. Really? Do you carry it unloaded, in a case, with no bullets anywhere around?

I really get a kick out of gun lovers citing ER as a liberal champion of gun ownership. It's pretty laughable, historically speaking. The only reason she got a permit in the first place was to shut up the Secret Service that kept bugging her to do so. Gun nuts everywhere love to repeat the story about ER and another elderly woman driving to a KKK rally with a loaded pistol on the seat between them, but it's no more historically accurate than most of the rest of their delusional fantasies. Lorena Hickok wrote that ER kept it inside a case, packed away, unloaded, and no bullets anywhere in the car.

So the reality is, ER traveled all over the country, including a Klan rally, with death threats on her head, and she never felt she needed a gun to keep her safe. Yet a grown men with nothing rational to be afraid of think they need a metal pacifier. Kinda makes you go, hmmmm.

[Hoopla Phil]

39. It's loaded, in a holster or other carry device, and a spare magazine with it. Lots of bullets.

Care to site a credible source that refutes ER's carrying of a loaded weapon? It is amazing the amount of willful disregard of the facts (to the point of fantasy) that the gun grabbers will go to to support their claims.

[MajorChode]

44. Hmmm, let me see if I have this right...

The best you can come up with is just a permit application for ER which not one single account of whether she actually carried a gun or not, yet it's MY responsibility to disprove your assertion which you never supported to begin with? Kinda lame on your part, no?

Oh well, since I'm feeling a bit charitable I'll go ahead and correct your ignorance to keep you from embarrassing yourself again, here's the credible source:
http://www.amazon.com/Eleanor-Roosevelt-Reluctant-First-Lady/dp/0396078362

Considering Lorena Hickok was sitting right next to ER when she was allegedly packing heat, I'd say it's a pretty good one.

[SteveM]

50. So why do you think she get a Concealed-carry permit? (nt)

[MajorChode]

61. Read post #34; slower this time

Your answer is in there. No shit.

Cheers!

[SteveM]

67. No, failed again. You refused to anser the question. No surprise...

Since Eleanor acquired a concealed-carry permit -- and practiced with a gun -- I rather suppose it was for self-protection, no?

Enjoying the warmth of your compost?

[MajorChode]

69. Have you been licking the wrong frogs?

The answer to your question damn sure is contained in the post. You asked me why I thought she got one and I answered the question before you even asked it. Anyone with 2 synapses actively firing can work their way up the thread and see that it is, YMMV. See post #55 to improve your comprehension skills.

Now it may not be the answer you want, but pretending I didn't answer the question because you didn't like what I had to say is pretty much 5 yr old mentality. I could give a fuck less if you don't like the answer. Unlike you, I don't pull assertions out of my ass and throw them against the wall to see if they stick. My answer is supported by historical references. Just because you don't agree, doesn't mean I "failed". Pretending otherwise is childish. I've forgotten more about ER than you will probably ever learn. If you want to challenge me, pack a lunch and pretend to be embarrassed even more than you already have been.

Cheers!

[MineralMan]

11. Each of the stories happened recently. How is this different

from posting the endless list of "homeowner shoots burglar" stories? Both involve the use of firearms, and this is the Gun forum, right.

It works both ways.

[eqfan592]

18. And they are both equally pointless

It's a constant war of escalation with which there can be no clear winner, because the simple fact is that anecdotal stories are not a good basis for public policy. If you think they are, then you're a fool.

[MajorChode]

35. So only statistics may be posted, ever?

Sometimes anecdotal stories spurn discussion about what actually is reality, and considering all the Rambo stories which are posted in this forum, a little balance might be needed. Think of it as a vaccine for the chickenshits.

[eqfan592]

48. Gee, way to put words in my mouth.

And maybe you should look into that "chickenshits" vaccine. You seem to have a pretty bad case of it as of late.

[MajorChode]

54. Pot/Kettle

You're the one calling people a fool for posting anecdotes in DU of all places. If you don't think that reeks of the chickenshits, well then I'm not sure I have much more to say to you as your hypocrites runneth the fuck over.

Have a nice day.

[SteveM]

51. Uh, "chickenshits?" Your "side?" Please clarify.

[MajorChode]

55. I'd rather you just work on your comprehension skills first

The word "side" never appeared in my previous post so I will clarify that. When you polish your comprehension skills, then we'll revisit the rest. Fair enough?

I suggest you start here:
http://www.busyteacherscafe.com/teacher_resources/literacy_pages/comprehension_strategies.htm

[SteveM]

66. Oh! Some of that standard "who, me?" droppings. Sorry to disturb your compost (nt)

[Hoopla Phil]

21. There are many forms of spam. What this person has done

is flood the post with new threads and not stick around to debate them. I'm sure this person has received a special P.M. from an admin regarding it. It's happened before and the mods took care of it.

I'll take your lack of response that this is more proof that more women need to arm themselves for their own self protection as agreement to that point. Thank you.

[MajorChode]

36. So you consider an alternate point of view as "spam"?

Sounds more than just a bit narrowminded. And the poster in question has responded several times, so your claim is more than just a bit dishonest.

[Hoopla Phil]

40. I consider drive by posting of new threads spam.

The narrow mindedness comes when the poster fails to come back to discuss them.

[MajorChode]

43. Hmmmm

But you have no problem with pro-gun threads posted ad-nausem? You also keep pretending the OP failed to come back to discuss, yet anyone with at least 2 synapses actively firing can see multiple posts in this very thread.

I think I'm going to have to go with a reasonable interpretation regarding what is or isn't spam, and yours damn sure ain't it.

Cheers!

[sharesunited]

2. Who loves guns more, men or women? Who settles their grievances with them more often?

[ensho]

4. men

no to guns

[Hello_Kitty]

7. I was arguing with a sexist pig DUer about domestic violence recently.

He tried to claim that DV is no longer a problem for women because we can get guns and that "equalizes" things. I was like, you have got to be kidding me.

[MajorChode]

10. It's like I always say

Guns, nuts, and religion. Any one by itself is no problem. Mix two and you're just asking for trouble. Mix all three and you're really fucked.

[sharesunited]

13. "Nuts" is too dismissive. Passion, despair, poor coping, illogic, insomnia, frailty...

In other words, ANYONE is susceptible to pulling the trigger to solve their perceived problem.

[Katya Mullethov]

14. Passion , despair , illogic , frailty , projection

[sharesunited]

16. Your sanity dangles by the same, thin psychic thread. The human condition is what it is.

[Katya Mullethov]

30. Your perceptions of frailty are certainly your own

And I am sure there is absolutely no limit to the number of things you deem impossible . To me , it just sounds like you're saying " My sanity dangles " .....especially when you go full emo .

[MajorChode]

15. You're right, of course

I should have used 'fruit' instead. Nuts is just too overused.

And no, I don't think "ANYONE" is susceptible, although certainly some are more than others.

[sharesunited]

17. And those who own the most guns are most insistent that they are the most sane.

A lovely paradox.

[friendly_iconoclast]

24. Examples, please?

[Hoopla Phil]

29. If you have evidence that proves the contrary please post it.

[Katya Mullethov]

32. I just did it , right up there

The only blessing is that one doesnt normaly know when they have lost it . They just figure the rest of mankind has lost their minds . A billion maggots writhing in a bloody froth , their taught bellys swollen with the gore of children .

Oh well . Continue dying .

[Hoopla Phil]

41. Where? Link, post number, cut and paste maybe?

[SteveM]

52. Jeez, just what are you talking about?...

My god, I've never seen so much spitting hatred from a group of folks who claim the mantel of liberalism, peace and equality. Just look at your stuff -- everybody else will.

[Katya Mullethov]

57. It's Sharody

Claiming I am sane , is more evidence of insanity .

Resistance to such rhetoric is truly futile and self defeating . So I am going to switch sides for a day and sample the Timothy Treadwell styled gospel of chanting " I love you" to a starving apex predator . Perhaps I can improve results by alternating that with " dont eat me" .

[friendly_iconoclast]

64. Congratulations, you've identified a new fallacy: the Treadwell!

as in: "The belief that keeping a positive attitude will suffice to protect you from things or creatures that might harm you".

Mind if we use it? It belongs with the classics such as the Godwin, the Lovejoy, and the Arnold.

[Katya Mullethov]

65. How dare you mock my religion !

What are you , some kind of Antitimmite ?

[SteveM]

68. Ha! Makes sense, now. It sounded like some Sonic commercial (nt)

[friendly_iconoclast]

46. This by the person that claims inanimate objects have magical powers!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x247574
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=247574&mesg_id=247581

"Guns cloud thought. Like Gollum and the ring."

[friendly_iconoclast]

26. And the authority figures need to keep us from the possibility of harm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/With_Folded_Hands

Your name wouldn't perchance be Sledge, would it?

[SteveM]

53. Your projections? You are a classic prohibitionist:

as in "my morals are more moral than your morals. And because of that, I seek to hurt you with the law."