How many shots did the Ft. Hood killer get off before he was subdued?

[Junkdrawer]

Any reports?

13 dead. 30 injured. Many reports of wounded with four gunshot wounds.

Perhaps semi-automatic handgun laws need to reexamined, because this sounds more like the damage one would expect from a raid with fully automatic machine gun(s).

[NYC_SKP]

1. Disagree. Semi-auto handgun laws do not prevent people from creating mayhem.

Sure, he managed to do a lot of damage with two handguns, and probably would have done less damage with a machete home-made bomb, right???

:shrug:

[Junkdrawer]

3. We severely tightened the controls on Tommy Guns in the 30s....

Incidents like this and the LA Fitness massacre in Pittsburgh, among others, should be a wakeup call.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

52. IMO, the NFA is likely unconsitutional - no way they'd try adding to it.

It's a gun grabber's wet dream and they're not likely to touch it with a 10ft pole.

Also, if look at the recent Heller ruling, handguns are VERY common and have have a legitimate ownership purpose. It's unlikely a ban or heavy infringement would be constitutional. Rare things like machine guns, SBS, SBRs, and other odd weapons are not "common" and can be regulated more tightly.I see what you're suggesting... it could just never happen (constitutionally).

[friendly_iconoclast]

60. You just *now* discovered that people can reload their weapons?

What other small wonders has the universe revealed to you recently?

[Dreamer Tatum]

2. At close range, one bullet can somtimes injured two people nt

[Junkdrawer]

7. He must have had several clips full of Oswald Specials....

I'm sure the History Channel will have computer animations soon....

[Hepburn]

32. Hmmmmmmm, I see...

....more government BS starring the Magic Bullet, the highest jumping, farthest traveling single bullet in the history of the US with the amazing talent to change direction in mid-air and end up in nearly pristine shape on a stretcher after going through not one, but two bodies.

JMHO

[Pavulon]

47. Fyi a 9mm FMJ round

will penetrate two male torsos. Germans would line people up and give it a try. A rifle round will penetrate many more. I have no idea what this person did but can tell you a handgun round can exit one person with enough energy to kill another.

[tekisui]

4. Richocets and there may have been some 'friendly fire' victims.

It appears the responding officers may have shot some of the dead or injured.

[RamboLiberal]

48. Post your evidence of friendly fire

I've read numerous accounts of this and have not found one reference to any of these victims being injured by friendly fire. In fact it sounds like the female police officer may have been the first armed officer to encounter him and she ended his rampage.

[RamboLiberal]

51. I finally found the reference to friendly fire

Officials are not ruling out the possibility that some of the casualties may have been victims of "friendly fire," that in the confusion at the shooting scene some of the responding military officials may have shot some of the victims.

Cone acknowledged that it was "counterintuitive" that a single shooter could hit so many people, but he said the massacre occurred in close quarters.

"With ricochet fire, he was able to injure that number of people," Cone said.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2009-11-05-Fort-Hood_N.htm

I didn't find Cone all that credible especially since it took him till after 9PM last night to say Hassan was still alive. And for a military officer he sure wasn't that credible on firearms.

[OHdem10]

5. To have never been in combat, he certainly could handle guns????

Just asking???

[Jennicut]

6. My Dad could shoot really well after being in the military for 3 years and was

never in war. They never sent him to Vietnam tough he came close.
Military training involves lots target practice, I think. And everyone was in a closed area in a tight space.

[Hepburn]

33. He was a MD shrink who had never been assigned over seas, etc.

Same thoughts here.

[X_Digger]

53. He was ROTC at VT..

.. so he was likely competent with a firearm long before joining.

eta: clarification

[AndyA]

8. With all those soldiers around, and all of them with access to weapons,

there goes the theory that people who are armed could prevent things like this from happening just because the shooters know they have weapons too. This guy knew others in the area had weapons, and it didn't prevent this massacre.

And soldiers are more highly trained to use weapons than the typical citizen.

So the typical female being robbed or attacked at random isn't really all that better protected. "Hold on just a second there, buddy. I've got a gun here in my purse. I just need to find it and then you're going to get it. Oh...there's my Jungle Red Lipstick! I wondered what happened to it!" :eyes:

Same goes for the big goon in the pick up truck who has to dig around in the glove box to find his weapon, amongst all the insurance cards, napkins from the McDonald's drive through, etc.

[SoCalNative]

9. You are aware that the only people on military bases allowed to carry guns

are military and civilian police officers, right?

[AndyA]

11. According to some of the reports I've seen the soldier who returned fire

was with the Post Police, and was in the immediate area.

[jeepnstein]

57. Post police...

at Fort Hood are civilians. The woman who stopped the active shooter in this case was a civilian post police officer.

[MH1]

10. Did they have access to weapons?

Soldiers on base don't normally carry weapons unless they are a) MPs or b) on their way to a training exercise, and then they don't have ammo until they get to the venue.

That's how it was when I was in, anyway.

[AndyA]

12. Which makes you wonder how it was that this guy could walk around the base

with weapons and not be questioned about it.

[Recursion]

17. Declaring something a gun-free zone does not make it so

And if I saw a Major walking around carrying, I would assume he was on duty, salute, and move on.

[AndyA]

25. So you TRUST that the person with a gun will do the right thing,

even though they are a complete stranger.

Would you also trust that stranger to take your 8 year old child off somewhere for an hour? Of course not. Yet you trust them to do the right thing with a gun.

And all too often, as we regularly see, people with guns don't do the right thing and aren't trustworthy. Hence the fatal flaw in today's gun laws. :eyes:

[Recursion]

36. That almost made sense

Except for the part where gun laws don't actually keep people from getting guns, just like drug laws don't actually keep people from getting drugs.

[AndyA]

46. No, but they sure make access to guns easier for a lot of people.

And all too often those people shouldn't have guns because they do bad things with them.

So far, there's no coming back from dead. And most of the time, the dead are innocent victims. How much is a life worth these days, anyway? Apparently not much, we can always make more right? :eyes:

[friendly_iconoclast]

61. Perhaps you shouldn't have access to a computer. Can we be sure you won't do wrong?

n/t

[Katya Mullethov]

63. No guns within a 1000 yards of Military bases

It's a start .

[Spoonman]

64. It's a start?

It's a MILITARY BASE! Not the peace corps!

Geez......

[Katya Mullethov]

66. A mile ?

Something MUST be done !!

[PavePusher]

67. Katya was demonstrating the fine art of Sarr-Kazem...

a sort of verbal Judo developed in her native... Lithuania? Estonia? Awwww, crap.

[SteveM]

70. Sounds a little like Socratic irony. Just a little (nt)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

42. The vast majority of people that commit crimes with guns are legally barred from possession of guns

[cliffordu]

44. Don't bring any real facts into this shit stain of a discussion, dave,

Fucks up the parabola of idiocy that arches across the sky from "we need to ban semi-auto handguns' to "What about all the heavily armed soldiers on the base??" and I enjoy the view.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cliffordu]

50. No, I really don't.....But there must be an internet law that

describes a point at which your argument becomes so lame, hysterical and poorly thought out that you are stuck comparing people to freepers or teabaggers.

Congratulations, sparky, you just made the team.

:hurts:

[friendly_iconoclast]

62. You must get very nervous while visiting local doughnut emporiums,

as they tend to be frequented with uniformed strangers with guns that you just have to TRUST...

[The_thrill_is_gone]

19. Do you think he walked around with handguns in hand

in plain view for all to see?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

20. You think he was wearing them like a cowboy?

[AndyA]

27. I don't know what he did with them.

Do you?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

39. Handguns are very easy to conceal, especially under baggy BDUs.

[MilesColtrane]

31. Probably concealed under a jacket.

[RamboLiberal]

49. He probably had the handguns concealed under his BDU's

[X_Digger]

55. Sounds like you're assuming they weren't concealed. n/t

[-..__...]

13. No shit.

On the rare occasions when I was given live ammo for guard duty, each and every round was accounted for by the OIC everytime the guard on duty was relived.

[The_thrill_is_gone]

18. The soldiers did NON have access to weapons

This is a military base with a locked and secure armory, not a battle field.

[Hepburn]

34. Sure as hell could be mistaken for a battlefield now. n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

22. They just had to go to the armory and sign them out. You fail miserably.

Only the MP's carry loaded weapons on base.

[slackmaster]

24. Only military police and soldiers who are on guard duty have access to weapons

Personal weapons are almost completely banned.

[-..__...]

14. "Perhaps semi-automatic handgun laws need to reexamined"?

Ummm, no. That's unacceptable.

Ditto for limitations on magazine capacity also.

[Junkdrawer]

15. Because you never know when 30 thugs are going to jump you. n/t

[-..__...]

23. You're right...

I never thought of that.

Probably best to carry a few extra mags just in case.

[slackmaster]

29. Or zombies

:nuke:

[Recursion]

16. Actually, automatic weapons aren't that good at killing people

One of the few incidences involving automatic weapons in the US was that bank robbery in California a few years ago; if you'll recall, the only people killed were the robbers themselves (and a dog, who only thought he was people).

Automatic weapons are really not made to kill people (they're almost impossible to aim correctly without a tripod); they're made to make people take cover.

[951-Riverside]

21. I guess no one remembers the Virginia Tech shooter

He killed 33 and injured 23 with 2 handguns. He didn't have any military training either.

[slackmaster]

26. Some of the victims were hit by friendly fire

It's not clear how many shots Hasan got off.

Perhaps semi-automatic handgun laws need to reexamined...

You people always find a way to twist any tragic crime into a reason to ban something. You blame the weapon rather than the person who misused it.

[ShortnFiery]

28. Many FEWER than the Virginia Tech shooter who killed over 30 innocents. n/t

[boppers]

69. How many did Cho fire?

Any idea?

[Xenotime]

30. Agreed. There needs to be limits on the amount one gun can carry.

[slackmaster]

35. We tried that in 1994 - 2004. It didn't do any good.

:nuke:

[MilesColtrane]

37. The Virginia Tech madman had 19 magazines on him.

None over 15 rounds each.

Not having a high capacity magazine didn't stop him from killing more people than Hasan.

What did stop Hasan was an armed police officer.

[RamboLiberal]

54. Exactly - though there are some pistol magazines that hold 30

or so rounds, most are in the 10-18 round range. Google a video search on "magazine reload handgun" and you will see how fast a mag can be ejected and a fresh mag inserted by a shooter who's done a bit of practice.

Too many here on DU think hey can legislate safety.

[-..__...]

38. Pick a number...

any number.

Here, I'll start...

[Gumbo]

58. Actually

By your logic, the larger the capacity of the magazine, the more fatalities will occur. I heard a rumor he was using two FN 5-7's which have a magazine capacity of 20 rounds each. The VT shooter, by contrast, had one pistol with a 15 round capacity and another with a 10 round capacity and yet, Cho was able to committ more murders. It's also worth noting that Cho's 10 round capacity handgun was a Walter P22, a gun which is notorious for jamming. The point is, factors like the capabilities of the shooter and target density are far more important in determining a body count than what type of gun they're using and how many rounds it can hold.

[friendly_iconoclast]

59. Yeah, 'cause bad guys won't think to reload, or carry more than one gun.

The stupid, IT BURNS!

[Pavulon]

40. No my myopic friend. The Question IS how many LAWS did he break

before he murdered those people? What law are you proposing that an asshole like that would pay attention to?

You realize capitol murder is regulated?

[Junkdrawer]

41. How many machine guns are used by mass murders these days?

In the 30s, it was commonplace. Then they were SEVERELY restricted.

[Pavulon]

43. How much coke will be snorted in midtown tonight?

coke is heavily restricted, yet seems to be easy to find. To stand on a pile of bodies to pitch gun control is pretty silly and transparent.

What is your plan?

[X_Digger]

56. No, it wasn't commonplace.. it was sensational..

.. e.g., the St Valentine's Day Massacre.

[SteveM]

71. Murder by machine guns "common?" What data do you have?

[PavePusher]

65. You don't know much about guns, or desperate situations, do you? n/t

[boppers]

68. Over 100 rounds (just on CNN)

5+ clips.

[SteveM]

72. I've got a bet for you...

I bet $5 that more people are killed by full-auto fire in one day of T.V. dramas than in 10 years of REAL life in the U.S.A.