Pros and Cons about self defense with a legally licensed firearm.

[DoctorWho]

As the title suggests, I am looking into the
"Pros and Cons about self defense with a legally licensed firearm."
I am not asking about a semantic discusion on Rights,
the Constitution, or emotional issues, what I want is good
information from People that have real first hand knowledge
one way or another, not, I read this, or this Guy said that,
I was recently robbed and beaten quite badly, even though I
complied with all of the demands of My attacker, I found out
I qualify for a permit in My City, but I intend to take the
courses offered, and learn before I do.
I have read lots of posts here, I am not a "Cowboy" or
a Bronson or a Dirty Harry, I just live in a dangerous City,
can't afford to move, and want another option, that is to
be able to defend Myself as opposed to getting killed, which
is what almost happened this time, next time I may not be so lucky
and escape with only a broken arm.
I do have knowledge of Law and a decent education,
so lets hear it.....

[La_Serpiente]

1. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[DoctorWho]

2. welcome

Shalom ! and thanks for the welcome....:-)

[MrSandman]

3. If self-defense

is is justified, the level of force necessary to effect self-defense must be allowed.

If self-defense is justified, the necessary level of force, up to and including deadly force, is justified. In self defense, the defender does not determine necessary force, the attacker does.

[kalashnikov]

4. You could get a taser.

They really do work, lots of law enforcement agencies use them.

Much less likely to get you into legal trouble, and fewer barriers to owning one.

[DoctorWho]

5. taser

Do they really work ?
I would rather something not lethal, but a Police Officer
freind told Me it was a bad idea, He said those do not always
work, the battery can fail, He wants Me to train with His
Seargent at the Police range, and get a small simple gun,
and they will help Me learn it first, I had mace, but it
did not work, and I don't want this to happen again.
This is all very hard for Me, everything I ever learned
says its wrong, but I have really been robbed too many times,
and next time may be the last if it gets worse...

[MrSandman]

8. If you decide

to carry a firearm for defensive purposes, you decide to take a grave responsibility upon yourself.
The odds of self-defense requiring deadly force are extremely low. The consequences of not being prepared, mentally and physically, are extremely high.
You must make this decision. Seek counsel from whom you respect.

[DoNotRefill]

11. If tasers worked all the time...

cops would carry them and not guns.

[kalashnikov]

21. Tasers do work!

Stories of them being unreliable are all from early models, the latest ones are very effective and will stop any attacker at less than 15 feet.

[RoeBear]

27. I've watched the videos...

...and was underwhelmed. Yep, they bring the guy to the ground in a hurry. But in ten seconds he's back on his feet again. Now what do you have? A REALLY pissed off criminal.

[a2birdcage]

14. By your name the last thing I thought..........

you would say is use a taser! Haha!

[jtb33]

15. Tasers?

No, tasers work SOMETIMES, and their efficacy (for STOPPING an attacker) and reliability is MUCH lower than that of a handgun.

I would think that in most cases, just pointing a loaded gun at an attacker would be enough of a deterrent, and that most likely, you wouldn't ever even have to shoot.

[beevul]

6. Welcome to DU!!!

Pay no attention to how ugly it can get here. The folks here are real good folks, for the most part. I'm sure they will have lots of info for you. Sorry to hear about you being attacked, but at least you survived. That is indeed something to be thankful for.

[DoctorWho]

7. thanks !

Yes, I am thankful, I have done that alot lately,
thanks for the welcome !
now I need to recover and get better...

[Emoto]

9. Learn and avoid!

You must learn the laws regarding use of deadly force in your state thoroughly. Typically, application of deadly force must be a last resort when no other option, including retreat, is available and your antagonist has the means, opportunity, and intention to do you grievous bodily harm. These conditions are much more narrow for civilians than for police. You must cease using force the moment the threat stops being a threat. Count on being arrested and perhaps even charged, should you ever use deadly force. Then expect a civil suit to be brought against you by the bad guy's family. All in all, you can lose everything you have and go to jail for a long, long time for using deadly force. If you start to "carry" you will find yourself working harder to avoid bad situations than you used to, because you will feel the weight of responsibility of having such force at your disposal. You must also be certain to be well trained and PRACTICED with your carry gun; the last thing you want is to fumble if you need to draw it, or miss if you have to shoot.

[Wickerman]

10. Welcome to the dungeon!

and DU - best of luck in your pursuit and recovery. Truly sorry to hear of your attack.

Enjoy your stay!

Lunabush

[funkyflathead]

12. Arm up.

Get trained, get a permit and get a good handgun.

[Dolomite]

13. You’ve got plenty of choices for training – why not just get the best?

You shouldn’t have to look any farther than Masaad Ayoob – here’s an old article from the Boston Phoenix about the Lethal Force Institute:

http://weeklywire.com/ww/11-29-99/boston_feature_1.html

Most States accept completion of LFI-1 as a suitable training requirement necessary for obtaining a concealed carry permit. In reality, the training you’ll receive in the judicious use of deadly force from Mas far, far exceeds the coursework provided to police officers in the academies. And you don’t need to fly to New Hampshire to get this type of training – I’d be willing to bet that there’s a LFI course being hosted somewhere in your state (or at least in a state next to you).

I recommend his book In the Gravest Extreme, it's a little dated - but it does a good job of addressing basic self-defense concerns.

Also, if you’re a true gun neophyte, a fairly decent primer is BLACK MAN WITH A GUN: A Responsible Gun Ownership Manual for African Americans, by Kenneth V. F. Blanchard.

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

[moroni]

16. I am truly sorry to read of your being attacked

I recommend that you go to www.packing.org to get as much information as you need on lawfully carrying a concealed weapon. They cover mindset, general knowledge on weapons and carrying. There is lots of information on federal and state laws too.

(If you are Jewish and interested - www.jpfo.org)

Shalom & Blessings
Moroni

[Superfly]

17. The morality of defense with a firearm is

INFINITELY more moral than not defending at all. Similarly, defense with a firearm is infinitely more moral than seeking to deny that defense to individuals.

[Liberal Classic]

18. Welcome to the dungeon, Doctor

Over the recent holiday I was visiting family in another city when a truck drove through the back wall of the yard about 3am. At that noise I woke up and looked out of the window where I thought I saw shapes. I ran into the master bedroom were relatives were and got on the phone. Someone broke through a window and was rooting around in the other bedroom as I talked with the police. Fortunately, the cops did not take too long, less than ten minutes I think, to get to where we were. They found an incoherent dude in the dining room hiding under the table. He didn't know where he was or even who he ways, but the cops found amphetamines in his truck, so I guess that was one of the things he was high on. Since I had taken an airplane to visit I did not have my pistol with me, and the only weapon I had was a pair of scissors and a poker from the fireplace. The next time I visit Phoenix I am checking my pistol with my luggage.

I swear on my honor that this post is true. I used to live in Phoenix and have been mugged before, but this type of thing has not happened to me before. I don't need to tell anyone how this could have turned out differently, and I would have much preferred to have been armed during this incident. Though it has quite an emotional impact on me I agree it is anecdotal. I do believe I can make a personal appeal in this case not to deprive citizens in good standing the use of arms.

[alwynsw]

26. Amen. Late, but amen nonetheless.

[ymxb54]

19. lucky

you are very lucky only to escape with a broken arm.

a handgun might be just the ticket.

a legally owned handgun would be like a fire extinguisher.

you will most likely never have to use it but you will be glad you had it if you have to use it.

a taser might also work, but i'm not sure about the fact that you have to use batteries

this is a very thought provoking thread as the police might not get there in time every time...

[DoctorWho]

20. Thanks to all that responded.....

I want to thank everyone for the kind words and
great advice, I intend to get as much training as I can and
will look into LFI as well...
I intend to study as many books as I can find as well,
a Police Freind showed Me Her Glock, says there is a smaller
one that is easier to conceal.....

[MrSandman]

28. If you are going to ask others to risk their life for you....

As in asking the police to defend you, don't you think you have a moral obligation to assume the same risk on your own behalf?

[SlavesandBulldozers]

22. my advice

take the test, arm yourself and be happy. Practice at the range.

[juancarlos]

23. PRO:

The much greater chance of surviving an attack from an individual who wants you dead.

[1a2b3c]

24. Welcome to DU

You signed up on my birthday. What city do you live in if you dont mind me asking? Or what state?

I know the pros and cons according to the laws on self defense, but i dont know what state youre in.

[alwynsw]

25. If you go for the permit

May I suggest something in either the .40 or .45 caliber - preferably a solid semi-auto?

Insofar as self defense goes, I have to agree with Jeff Cooper who said that the consequences of not shooting tend to be far worse than the consequences of shooting (death as opposed to a grilling by the authorities). Mr. Cooper should know. He taught combat handguns in the USMC for about 20 years, then opened his own handgun school after retiring from the USMC.

I took the classes - two weeks, very intense, plasting fom almost sunup until well after dark some evenings. WE shot a ton and had classes on threat identification - when to shoot and when not to shoot kind of stuff.

Don't know about his grads record now, but at the time I took the classes none of his trainees had ever been taken, or in the case of professional guards (body) that took the classes had ever lost a principal. Most of the personal guards were hired by folks in the Med. and Middle East. Speaks well of the class, but I ramble.