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davepc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 08:08 AM
Original message
firearm journalism in the New York Times circa 1891
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9D07E2DE1339E033A25755C1A96E9C94609ED7CF

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9D07E2DE1339E033A25755C1A96E9C94609ED7CF

Stumbled across this when googling: a report from August 16, 1891 on the United States military's selection process for a new infantry rifle.

The article specifically focuses on the British Lee Rifle (I'm assuming the Lee-Metford, the Lee-Enfield didn't arrive till a few years later)

I was surprised to the depth the reporter took in the subject, addressing such topics as muzzle velocity, ballistics of the bullet, bullet trajectory, weight, accuracy, as well as the perceived pros and cons of the various models under consideration.

I just found it interesting in context of contemporary reporting. From miss-identifing firearms to addressing subjects like the current gun/drugs/gangs situation Mexico with laborious hyperbole.

Imagine, reading a newspaper article and becoming realitivly educated a subject one might previously know little.


If you're curious, the US went with the Krag-Jørgensen, not the Lee. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield_Model_1892-99





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OneTenthofOnePercent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
1. Modern newspapers, editorials and journalism as a whole are a joke.
Edited on Tue Aug-25-09 08:42 AM by OneTenthofOnePercent
Probably something like a 4th grade reading comprehension level and watered down so that everyone can grasp the hysteria and hyperbole they are spewing. It's very similar to the use of HFCS and sugars in the food industry - At some point it became all about the money and the product got dumbed down to addict the masses while providing very little substance otherwise.
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Xela Donating Member (787 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. Splendid
Nice find.

And thanks for sharing.

Xela
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gorfle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
3. Interesting.
Neat article.
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virginia mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
4. Very good...Quite a difference in reporting..
Then they stuck to facts, today, they would rather print hyperbole.

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JonQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-25-09 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. Nowadays
that would have transformed in to an automatic assault rifle.

Reporters are kind of like jesus in that way. Except instead of turning water to wine they can turn semi-autos in to full autos, and cheap saturday night specials in to deadly armor piercing piercing assault weapons, same as the military uses.
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 03:33 AM
Response to Original message
6. Fascinating, and quite revealing in some ways
When discussing considerations on the part of the British in selecting the Lee-Metford and its ammunition, there are some interesting points:
The Germans, Austrians and French are all using smokeless powders, but with what degree of success they alone know. The British are still holding off, and, as one of their prominent artillery officers recently put it, "We are still in search of an ideal explosive; <...> Gunpowder we know all about; it is a good, honest mixture <...>"

Here, the British illustrated that the perfect is the enemy of the good, as their reluctance to switch to smokeless powder hurt them considerably in the early stages of the Second Boer War, when the first few volleys of British rifle fire would obscure the battlefield from view, requiring them to move position to re-engage the enemy. Meanwhile, the Boers, who were predominantly using Mausers with smokeless powder, were able to remain dug in and pick off the exposed British in comparative safety.
"To sum up," as Lieut. Col. G. V. Fosbery of the British Army recently put it before the members of the Royal United Service Institution when discussing small arms, "the military small arms of to-day are simply bolt guns on various plans, but one and all having magazines of the Lee type: there are two methods of filling these magazines--the domestic way, with the fingers, and the foreign way, with clips: <...>

While the incorporation of detachable magazines and the swift Lee bolt mechanism gave the Lee-Metford a superior rate of fire while the rifleman had loaded magazines available, there comes a time when the loaded mags run out...
Let's put it this way: by the time the Lee-Metford was phased out completely, it had been modified to accept charger clips. Another lesson learned paid for in soldiers' blood.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
7. Later, when backing the Timothy "Big Tim" Sullivan's (of Tammany Hall notoriety)
Edited on Thu Aug-27-09 07:09 AM by benEzra
"disarm everybody but my henchmen" bill, their editorializing drifted downhill into xenophobia:

http://www.ocshooters.com/Gen/news-articles.htm

CONCEALED PISTOLS

Editorial, New York Times, January, 27, 1905

Among the best british traditions perpetuated and cherished in America is that of using natures weapons in the act of self-defense. That it is sincerely cherished is shown in the recent introduction at Albany of a bill by Assemblyman Tompkins to amend the Penal Code of this State relative to the carrying of loaded firearms concealed about the person. The amending section reads as follows:

Sec. 411-A Any person other than a peace officer who shall in any public street, highway or place in any city in this State having a population of upward of 100,000 persons by the last State census have or carry concealed upon his person any loaded pistol, revolver, or other firearm, without thereto fore, in the manner now provided by law, having been authorized to carry the same, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

Such a measure would prove corrective and salutary in a city filled with immigrants and evil communications, floating from the shores of Italy and Austria-Hungary. New York police reports frequently testify to the fact that the Italian and other south Continental gentry here are acquainted with the pocket pistol, and while drunk or merrymaking will use it quite as handily as the stiletto, and with more deadly effect. It is hoped that this treacherous and distinctly outlandish mode of settling disputes may not spread to corrupt the native good manners of the community. The case of a Columbia student who flourished and fired a pistol at his persecutors instead of using his "bare fist", as his presumably British-American descent would prescribe, is fresh in the public memory. The act now proposed and championed by Mr. Tompkins will diminish the number of homicides.


But at least they didn't try to pass the "Ewww, those nasty immigrants, so unlike us" meme off as news.
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. "The best British traditions perpetuated and cherished in America"?
Let me explain my perspective on this. I'm originally Dutch, grew up partly in the UK, and immigrated to the US seven years ago. There are many aspects about Britain that I love, but there are many memes in British culture that I am not reticent to say are utter bullshit.

One of those is the notion that "British boys fight with their fists." Utter bollocks. Britain didn't acquire its empire by fighting with bare fists; it acquired it with the Brown Bess musket and Baker rifle, the Martini-Henry breech-loader, and the Maxim-Vickers water-cooled machine gun, and that's just infantry weapons. If the British had tried to fight the battle of Rorke's Drift with bare fists instead of rifles, the Zulus would have won in about twenty minutes. But for reasons unclear to me, back in Blighty the idea persisted that it was somehow dishonorable to use weapons, improvised or otherwise. Personally, I think it's a notion cooked by the bigger kids to prevent the smaller kids from acquiring and using the means to defeat them.

One of the things the United States was founded on was breaking with British traditions that didn't make sense, like paying deference to an insane monarch and hanging old ladies for being witches. Emerson didn't write about "the punch heard round the world"; firearms have played indelible role in this country's history, and thinking people shouldn't use them because of some stupid British tradition of "using nature's weapons" (hint: we don't have any, which is why we're tool users) is ludicrous.
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Israfel4 Donating Member (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. Has anyone seen a magazine/catalog
of firearms being sold in the 1930's??? The prices alone make me cry.
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oneshooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-27-09 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
10.  If you really want to cry
Get a repop copy of the "Bannermans Catalog".

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas
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SteveM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-29-09 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Have a Nov. 1960 copy of F & S:
"400 acres, $34,000, near Gainesville ."

or

"220 acres on large lake only $300 per acre."

And the "Swedish Artik-Karlin Model 94 cavalry carbine <6.5 Mauser>" for $29.95 through Klein's.

Interesting caveat at the bottom of Klein's one-page ad: "HANDGUN PURCHASERS: Please send signed statement stating that you are 21 or over, not an alien, have not been convicted of a crime, not under indictment, not a fugitive from justice or drug addict."

Ah, those days in F-L-A. Someone could drop you off 10 miles from Florida U without a compass and you would be in trouble.
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benEzra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-28-09 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. That's mostly an artifact of inflation; $100 a week was a *very* good salary then
so a gun that cost $50 was half a week's pay.

In terms of real (inflation-adjusted) dollars, guns are no more expensive now than they were then, though some would certainly like to change that.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
13. If you google Savage Automatic Pistol, you might find a site
featuring ads for these pistols with testamonials by Bat Masterson and Buffalo Bill Cody. They were both "back east" at this time, Masterson as a sports writerfor a paper in NYC. It's pretty intersting to see these things when they were very accepted and used by many people all over this country.

mark
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