Should astronauts aboard the International Space Station have access to a firearm?

[spin]

CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. -- Astronauts aboard the International Space Station apparently have access to a gun.

Russian Cosmonauts carry a gun on their Soyuz space capsule, which is attached to the space station.

***snip***

But although the gun has been there for as long as the space station has been in orbit, its existence is kept quiet. NASA and Russian officials won't talk publicly about it.

Former NASA engineer Jim Oberg, who is an author and journalist, wrote about the gun on his Web site. He said the gun has no place in an environment where people are under such high stress.

"There have been cases of severe psychological strain on people in space, strain that they have taken out -- that their shipmates worried about the ultimate actions," Oberg said.
http://www.wesh.com/news/15298911/detail.html

[slackmaster]

1. The Space Shuttle needs a designated Door Gunner

[rrneck]

2. It's a pretty safe neighborhood. nt

[Wickerman]

3. Ballastically, what would an errant bullet do in space?

Kinda suck to have it puncture something vital. I'm thinking most things in the SS are vital?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

6. Given the lightweight nature of EVERYTHING aerospace...

I imagine there's not much that would stop the bullet from pucturing the spaceraft.

Maybe they're worried about aliens?

[Auggie]

4. Yeah, to protect against space pirates

I bet the NRA agrees.

[X_Digger]

5. From a morbid standpoint..

.. if something happened and they knew they were going to die slowly / painfully (loss of pressure, lack of oxygen) maybe they should have a way to end their life painlessly. (Wouldn't have to be a gun, that has more danger than benefit, I'd think..)

[rcrush]

7. Dont they get cyanide pills?

I always heard astronauts had cyanide tablets "just in case".

[X_Digger]

8. I'd hope so..

.. not sure about the painlessness of cyanide, though.

[Deep13]

41. No. Jim Lovell debunked that rumor in Lost Moon. nt

[mainer]

9. There are plenty of meds onboard to do that.

They have a pretty complete pharmaceutical supply, methinks.

A bullet? Whoa. Puncture the hull, and that's billions of dollars' worth of engineering that becomes useless.

[Deep13]

42. They could simply depressurize the cabin. nt

[armyowalgreens]

50. You mean exposing the body to the vacuum of space?

That would be the most excruciatingly painful 10 seconds or so of their lives.


I would rather suffocate slowly than die because of vacuum exposure.

[Deep13]

51. Lovell in his book talked about that.

In addressing the rumor of suicide pills, he said there were better ways of doing it and mentioned depressurization. He said it would be painless. I suppose he meant a slow depressurization so they passed out before the air was mostly drained.

[baldguy]

10. Guns were given by God from the right hand of Jesus.

Keeping them off Ronald Reagan's space station is a commie plot by those damn Russians! Our guys need to be armed just to keep the arms race in space balanced.

[Wickerman]

11. Hey, if the damned Ruskies have 'em, I want our boys to have 'em, too

Er,and girls.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

15. Mr. President we have a space gun gap!

[iverglas]

23. er, whose boys and girls?

http://www.asc-csa.gc.ca/eng/astronauts/bio.asp

There's Canadians on them there space thingies.
But I suppose they're just as irrelevant as anywhere else.

[TPaine7]

30. I think they're much more relevant on the "space thingies"

than they are in cyberspace trying to suppress people's rights in other countries.

But then you may know them better than I do, so maybe you're right.

[iverglas]

35. well now, sonny,

they are in cyberspace trying to suppress people's rights in other countries

... if you catch one doing that, you be sure to point it out for me.

Chapter and verse, of course.

[TPaine7]

56. Look in the mirror next time you post here.

PS: I know this is a challenge given your innate hypocrisy, but don't you think someone who complains about having an issue made of her age (that would be you) should abstain from making age-related comments regarding other posters, especially the one she complained about (that would be me)? You should really give integrity a fair trial.

PPS: I trust you were referring to my age and not alleging a blood relationship. If my assumption is wrong, please--pretty please with a cherry on top--don't bother to correct it. Thnx.

[Wickerman]

32. Well, now, isn't that nice?

look at you folks, acting all scientific like and all!


:hi:

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

14. I recall seeing a documentary once

about the russian's OUTBOARD gun on thier space station spy sattelites in the cold war era.
It was never tested because they were unsure of the trajectory alterations it would cause... but it was there. :)

Plus, who can forget the Armadillo's minigun in the moie Armageddon.

[dashrif]

22. Little pop = big alteration

I remember asking why they landed off target in school years ago, and got an answer close to #4 on this list I looked at yesterday.

"When Apollo 11’s lunar lander, the Eagle, separated from the orbiter, the cabin wasn’t fully depressurized, resulting in a burst of gas equivalent to popping a champagne cork. It threw the module’s landing four miles off-target."



from #4 http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-amp-space/article/2009-06/40-years-later-ten-things-you-didnt-know-about-apollo-ii-moon-landing

And for NASA nerds like me The Kennedy library is doing a real time recreation for the 40th anniversary of Apollo 11, with real audio very cool stuff.

http://wechoosethemoon.org/

story about recreation
http://news.bostonherald.com/entertainment/arts_culture/view/20090712web_site_recreates_apollo_11_mission_in_real_time/srvc=home&position=recent

[TPaine7]

29. Many have suspected as much... It's good to have an eyewitness. N/T

[spin]

12. Interesting info about the firearm...

For decades, the standard Soyuz survival pack has included a gun. And not just any gun, but a deluxe all-in-one weapon with three barrels and a folding stock that doubles as a shovel and contains a swing-out machete. Three types of ammunition — rifle bullets, shotgun shells and flares — come in a belt attached to the gun.

Plans are to use it only in special circumstances on return to Earth — but in space, on occasion, plans have a way of turning out very differently. The presence of the gun, especially in light of recent space team psychological problems, may be an invitation to a future disaster.

Dropping a space bombshell
Just before last October's Soyuz launch, a British news report said that the gun, manufactured by a factory that is now in an independent country, was being phased out because all the in-stock ammunition had exceeded its certified shelf life. In its place, a standard Russian army sidearm was now to be carried.

***snip***

The press office at NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston adamantly refuses to discuss the gun, saying it is a piece of Russian hardware and needs to be described by the Russians. (They know full well that the Russians have never, and probably never will, respond to such queries). NASA representatives profess to have no photographs of Americans training with the gun, although there are plenty of other training photographs from Moscow showing Americans doing other preparatory practice.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23131359/

[krispos42]

13. The gun is there are part of a survival kit

In case the capsule lands in the Siberian forest someplace and rescue isn't forthcoming. No big deal there; it's appropriate, IMO. I'm assuming it is properly stored, of course.

If they had one in the ISS I'd ask why... a taser would be more than enough to restrain somebody that's gone nuts, and it wouldn't blow out critical components or ricochet. In the ISS, help is only a scream away.



This is being over-thought, IMO.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

16. "In the ISS, help is only a scream away."

In space... no on can hear you scream. :crazy:

[krispos42]

49. I knew somebody was going to mention that!

:D

[baldguy]

21. So, there's a gun on a SPACE station to protect against ... wolves?

[Statistical]

25. "a gun on their Soyuz space capsule, which is attached to the space station."

Yup that is about it.

Just like pilots in Alaska are required to carry a survival firearm.

The Soyuz is the "lifeboat" for the ISS. In a catastrophic failure the survivors could board the Soyuz and return to earth.
Now they may be knocked substantially off course and end up in middle of Siberia. The capsule has a whole bunch of survival gear including a firearm.

[AtheistCrusader]

36. Especially since an emergency re-entry

isn't going to be by any 'window' of re-entry we normally use, meaning, it could land damn near anywhere around the planet.

[Nailzberg]

26. Actually? Yes. Voskhod 2 in 1965

The Russian capsule landed way off course and the two cosmonauts spent the evening surrounded by wolves in the Ural mountains. That's when the russians decided to add a gun to the standard survival gear.

[krispos42]

48. No, there's a gun in the return capsule that's attached to the space station.

Russian space capsules land on, well, land. Remember how ours came down in the ocean? Mercury, Apollo, and Gemini capsules all landed in the ocean because we have a very large blue-water fleet. The Russians don't have that and never did, so all their stuff does a "bumpdown" instead of a "spashdown".


So yeah, against wolves... not Wolves From Space, though. Much to Link Hogthrob's relief. :-)

[brendan120678]

17. That's just in case Russia and the USA go to war.

Last astronaut/cosmonaut/space-tourist to the gun is a rotten egg!!

[GodlessBiker]

18. What if aliens came a'knockin'? It could happen, ya know.

[meegbear]

19. Shouldn't they have phasers?

[Tim01]

20. It's just in case the space station crashes in a bad neighborhood. nt

[Hoopla Phil]

24. I seriously wonder what would happen to the shooter if he/she discharged a

firearm in zero gravity. Could be a very dangerous no matter which side of the gun you are on. I'm also curious for the reasoning. I'm sure there are lots of papers on this, but probably classified.

[baldguy]

27. f=ma - and a very bad day for all concerned.

[eqfan592]

28. True...

...but I think the obvious intent for this firearm was not so it could be used in a space emergency, but rather in the event of a landing in a remote location where rescue may take hours or even days. Keep in mind that the Russian space craft do not land on water, but are designed to land on land.

[Deep13]

43. One would think that a space ship...

...is not the best place to be shooting.

[BigBluenoser]

52. Nothing.. or not much...

The shooter still has the same mass. You (nor your target) would not go flying through the air like in a crap action movie.

Might spin you a bit.

There's no bullet drop in zero g, but otherwise you could probably keep your self on target by hooking a toe or using your off hand. Otherwise I can see you slowly rotating backwards a bit with every shot.

[spin]

31. In other news, the space station may be de-orbited in 2016...

The International Space Station has been a colossal undertaking among five space agencies whose final price tag will likely be in the vicinity of $100 billion dollars. (The U.S. construction costs alone are estimated to be $31 billion.) Just this year the station finally reached its full capacity of six crew members, but it is still under construction—space shuttle Endeavour sits at the ready today to deliver to the ISS pieces of a Japanese experiment module.

But the ISS program manager for NASA is warning that without a change in policy, all that work will go plunging into the ocean in 2016, just six years after the scheduled completion of the station. "In the first quarter of 2016, we'll prep and deorbit the spacecraft," Michael Suffredini told the Washington Post. The ISS's long-term funding from NASA terminates in 2015, the newspaper notes.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/60-second-science/post.cfm?id=international-space-station-still-u-2009-07-13

[aikoaiko]

33. The Brits already beat us to the punch.

[eqfan592]

34. LOL! One of the worst Bond films ever, IMHO. :P (nt)

[iverglas]

38. well excuuuse me

Those be Canadians you see there, and they went there first.

After all, no one had ever been there before ...



(Hmm. I was looking for Scotty with a phaser, but it looks like I ended up with Scotty aiming a wristwatch at somebody ...)

[spin]

40. The best SF series made...

and the Enterprise didn't run around invading worlds and slaughtering aliens indiscriminately. (Something the U.S. would do if the aliens had oil.)

[aikoaiko]

44. Well that took place in the 2200s

;)

[iverglas]

46. is that what it was?

You got me. ;)

Despite having watched every episode of every Star Trek series ever made at least 4 times, and having seen all the movies (well, not the latest, and I fell asleep three times during the one before that), I have never ever had a clue about Star Dates. Not the foggiest.

Sort of like Law&Order. I've seen all of them as many times, but I have never yet remembered to try to pay attention to the dates they flash on the screen and get a feeling for the passage of time in an episode. (I know I'm always amazed at the speed with which those dastardly murderers they track down, charge, try and convict get dispatched, which I sort of have a fuzzy grip on. Where I'm at, these things go on for months and months!)

Knowing the first many seasons of L&O by heart has made Law & Order UK, now showing on a Toronto station, a disappointment. The exact same scripts with a few local adjustments. Kind of like when they remade Cracker in the US. Seen the real thing twice, who wants it all over again with substitute actors, even if one of them was Eldon the handyperson? L&O UK does have Danny Baldwin, ex of Coronation Street, though, and he makes up a bit for the loss of Lenny.


I love time paradoxes. I got myself stuck in one last year. We get Coronation Street about 10 months behind the UK airings. (Every time there's an Olympics or a Stanley Cup, we lose two more weeks ...) After watching a couple of series of Big Brother where every time a female contestant stood up she pulled her pants down and getting pretty sick of the vulgarity of the fashion, I saw a Corrie character walking around with her belly hanging out, and said Oh no, don't tell me that a year from now women are *still* dressing like that! Because I was seeing 10 months into the future, you see ...

[AtheistCrusader]

37. WOOOOoOoOooooo I gotta get me one of THESE...

"a deluxe all-in-one weapon with three barrels and a folding stock that doubles as a shovel and contains a swing-out machete. Three types of ammunition — rifle bullets, shotgun shells and flares — come in a belt attached to the gun."

I'm sold.

[eqfan592]

39. It sounds similar to the M6 Survival Rifle....

It's a .22lr/.410 gauge break action. Easy to break down and durable. I wish somebody still made these. I would scoop one up in a heartbeat!

EDIT: Had the wrong gauge listed. My bad!

[bluedigger]

45. This must be the funniest thread ever in the Gungeon!

The gun up there is good, but a shovel? Come on, that's funny!:rofl:

[iverglas]

47. well I recommended it

But there seem to be some spoilsports around.

[spin]

54. Thanks. (n/t)

[TheWraith]

53. Ahh, the Russians. Stingy as always.

See, we'd have issued our guys poison pills for in case it ever came to a situation with no hope of rescue. The Russians? Screw that, let's just give him a gun.

[spin]

55. We developed the space pen. They used a pencil. (n/t)