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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 01:00 PM
Original message
The Belgian Corporal
In the summer of 1955, I was a young Texas National Guard sergeant on active duty at Fort Sill, Oklahoma. A corporal in my squad was a Belgian-American named Charles DeNaer. An old man as far as most of us were concerned, being well over thirty, Charley commanded a certain amount of our respect, for not only was he older than the rest of us, he had lived in Belgium when the Germans rolled across the low countries by-passing the Maginot Line on their way into France. He had seen war.

One soft Oklahoma afternoon, sitting on a bunk in the half-light of an old wooden barracks, he told me his story.

In Charley's little town in Belgium, there lived an old man, a gunsmith. The old man was friendly with the kids and welcomed them to his shop. He had once been an armorer to the king of Belgium, according to Charley. He told us of the wonderful guns the old man had crafted, using only hand tools. There were double shotguns and fine rifles with beautiful hardwood stocks and gorgeous engraving and inlay work. Charley liked the old man and enjoyed looking at the guns. He often did chores around the shop.

One day the gunsmith sent for Charley. Arriving at the shop, Charley found the old man carefully oiling and wrapping guns in oilcloth and paper. Charley asked what he was doing. The old smith gestured to a piece of paper on the workbench and said that an order had come to him to register all of his guns. He was to list every gun with a description on a piece of paper and then to send the paper to the government. The old man had no intention of complying with the registration law and had summoned Charley to help him bury the guns at a railroad crossing. Charley asked why he didn't simply comply with the order and keep the guns. The old man, with tears in his eyes, replied to the boy, "If I register them, they will be taken away."


More here: http://www.examiner.com/x-2698-Charlotte-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m6d21-Dangers-of-gun-registration-The-Belgian-Corporal

Read the whole thing if you can, regardless of which side of the fence you're on. Very moving.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. That sounds confused to me. If the father had NOT kept a gun as a relic
of WWI, tha family would not have been slaughtered. Not does the author of the piece say that the guns buried by the old gunsmith were dug up by him for use in the war.

Had they been used, a hundred local people might have been slaughterd in reprisal. There were, though, a lot of brave people in Italy, to name just one country, in which civilians did countenance such reprisals, to see the Nazi troops attacked and driven out.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. The Nazis conducted many bloody reprisals for the most trivial of offenses
Sometimes they gunned down innocent villagers for no reason other than to scare everyone else into obeying the dictates of their new Aryan overlords. Maybe not in Austria or the Sudetenland so much, but definitely in places like Poland and the Soviet Union.

And there were a lot of brave resistance fighters in Poland as well. They destroyed two concentration camps (Treblinka and Sobibor) and helped out with the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. I think they also scored a military victory against German troops at Zamosc.

I see the point you're trying to make, though.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yes, it was an extraordinary time, which brought out the best and the worst
in people.

Once you look into the background of both World Wars, the truth of marine general, Smedley-Butler's teachings about the well-springs of wars become all the clearer.
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gorfle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. So...
That sounds confused to me. If the father had NOT kept a gun as a relic of WWI, tha family would not have been slaughtered.

So...does that mean that the family is to blame for the Nazis using firearm registration data to kill anyone on their list that could or would not produce the firearms they came to confiscate?

Is the lesson here not to do things that might bring you unwanted attention by future oppressive regimes or rather not to give data to governments that might later become oppressive?
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R (n/t)
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. I don't believe this story
Edited on Mon Jun-22-09 03:18 PM by Euromutt
For starters, it's by Neal Knox, noted NRA dissident. He's tried, and still is trying, to oust the current NRA leadership because they're too conciliatory.
The old smith gestured to a piece of paper on the workbench and said that an order had come to him to register all of his guns.
<...>
A year or two later, the blitzkrieg rolled across the Low Countries.
The Belgian Weapons Law was passed in 1933. The invasion of the Low Countries and France was in 1940.

More importantly, sport and hunting weapons were not required to be registered until 1990.
The officer displayed a paper describing a Luger pistol, a relic of the Great War, and ordered the father to produce it. That old gun had been lost, stolen, or misplaced sometime after it had been registered, the father explained.
A handgun would have been a "defense weapon" under the 1933 law, and required a license issued by the local police, not just registration.

Also, while the Germans got pretty nasty about reprisals in western Europe, this wasn't until later in the war. The first year or so, they tried to avoid fomenting resistance by being too hard-handed. Gunning down an entire family in 1940? Didn't happen.

For that matter, this kind of inspection wouldn't have been carried out by "a squad of SS troops." More likely, it would have been done by Ordnungspolizei. And yes, somebody in his late teens at the time--as Cpl. DeNaer supposedly was--would have known the difference.

Basically, this story is too full of holes to be credible. It's very moving, yes; it's designed to be, because it's propaganda.
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gorfle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. He's not trying very hard anymore.
For starters, it's by Neal Knox, noted NRA dissident. He's tried, and still is trying, to oust the current NRA leadership because they're too conciliatory.

The article states he died on January 17th, so I guess he's not trying very hard anymore :)

As for the rest, who knows if it's true or not? All I know is it's dangerous to give a government a list of owners of the arms intended to be the ultimate limit to the power of that government.
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I reiterate, the story is a fabrication
"Who knows if it's true or not"?
Well I do, for one. I'm from the next small country over, and Flemish and Dutch are essentially the same language (and I speak French) so I can look up local material on Belgium, and the story's details don't match the provisions of the 1933 law, even though the story hinges on those provisions.

It really doesn't help the argument against registration if the stories we offer up can be shown to be fabrications.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. "Didn't happen?!?"
During the 1939 German invasion of Poland, special action squads of SS and police (the Einsatzgruppen) were deployed in the rear, arresting or killing those civilians caught resisting the Germans or considered capable of doing so as determined by their position and social status. Tens of thousands of wealthy landowners, clergymen, and members of the intelligentsia — government officials, teachers, doctors, dentists, officers, journalists, and others (both Poles and Jews) — were either murdered in mass executions or sent to prisons and concentration camps. German army units and "self-defense" forces composed of Volksdeutsche also participated in executions of civilians. In many instances, these executions were reprisal actions that held entire communities collectively responsible for the killing of Germans.

In an action codenamed "Operation Tannenberg" ("Unternehmen Tannenberg") in September and October 1939, an estimated 760 mass executions were carried out by Einsatzkommandos, resulting in the deaths of at least 20,000 of the most prominent Polish citizens. Expulsion and murder became commonplace.

Proscription lists (Sonderfahndungsbuch Polen) identified more than 61,000 Polish activists, intelligentsia, actors, former officers, etc who were to be interned or shot. Members of the German minority living in Poland assisted in preparing the lists.

The first part of the action started in August 1939 with the arrest and execution of about 2,000 activists of Polish minority organisations in Germany were arrested. The second part of the action started September 1, 1939 and ended in October resulting in at least 20,000 murdered in 760 mass executions by special units, Einsatzgruppen, in addition to regular Wehrmacht units. In addition to these, a special formation was created out of the German minority living in Poland called Selbstschutz, whose members trained in Germany prior to the war in diversion and guerilla fighting. The formation was responsible for many massacres and due to its bad reputation was dissolved by Nazi authorities after the September Campaign.


Andrzej Leszek Szcześniak (2001) - Plan zagłady Słowian - Generalplan OST ISBN 83-88822-03-9
Alfred Spiess, Heiner Lichtenstein: Unternehmen Tannenberg (1989) - Der Anlass zum Zweiten Weltkrieg. Korrigierte und erweiterte Ausgabe (Ullstein-Buch ; Nr. 33118 : Zeitgeschichte) ISBN 3-548-33118-1
Stefan Scheil (2005) - 1940/41. Die Eskalation des Zweiten Weltkriegs München ISBN 3-7892-8151-4
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Poland wasn't western Europe
The Nazi German attitude towards Poland was very different from their attitude towards western Europe. The Poles were Slavs, therefore inferior, and there was a lot of German resentment over Poland having been (re)created after World War I partly out of German territory. The populace of the Low Countries, by contrast, were almost honorary Germans, and were handled much more delicately, at least at first.

In the Low Countries, Nazi repression didn't get seriously underway until 1942, when the deportation to Germany of forced laborers resulted in the first stirrings of active resistance. Even so, atrocities like the one described didn't start happening until the summer of 1943.

Prior to that, there was one major atrocity in Belgium, known as the Vinkt Massacre (Flemish: het Bloedbad van Vinkt) in which a regular German army unit summarily executed at least 86 civilians, mainly as result of rumors that Belgian civilians had been shooting at German troops. This, however, happened on May 27th 1940, the day before the Belgian surrender.
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ChrisKnox Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-26-09 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. Looking for information about the Belgian gun laws
Hi Euromutt --

I'm Chris Knox and I appreciate your skepticism. It's healthy and warranted these days and in this medium. I reconstructed this story as the prologue to a collection of my late father's writing (Neal Knox - The Gun Rights War). He cited it as the story that got him into the gun issue. Dad only printed this story once that I know of, and he recounted it once in a speech in front of the Alamo. I knew this story best as an after-dinner talk. The story was really moving to me and I asked him why he didn't tell it more frequently. Your reaction illustrates perfectly his reasons for keeping it personal. To him, the story was sacred and he didn't want it to be picked apart in a public forum or made trite with repetition. I hesitated printing it myself for that very reason. But it was too good to pass up. He and I talked about it and he agreed that it needed to be printed.

The story was told to Dad first-hand by Charles. He believed it, partly because Charley described the old gunsmith's guns in some detail -- and there may have been some military weapons; he had worked in the royal armory. Dad even did web searches trying to track Charley down. He wanted to date the story by the gun law, and perhaps even locate the village. He described the registration paperwork as being at least a couple of -- perhaps several -- years years prior to the war. If you have information about the Belgian gun registration law I'd be interested.

In 1955 Dad was 19. Charley was well past 30, so your dates actually reinforce what I know of the story. I'm interested in any facts regarding this story I can dig up.

My apologies for arriving late to this party, but I was interested in where this story has traveled.

Chris Knox
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gorfle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. This is why I will never register my firearms.
"A year or two later, the blitzkrieg rolled across the Low Countries. One day not long after, the war arrived in Charley's town. A squad of German SS troops banged on the door of a house that Charley knew well. The family had twin sons about Charley's age. The twins were his best friends. The officer displayed a paper describing a Luger pistol, a relic of the Great War, and ordered the father to produce it. That old gun had been lost, stolen, or misplaced sometime after it had been registered, the father explained. He did not know where it was.

The officer told the father that he had exactly fifteen minutes to produce the weapon. The family turned their home upside down. No pistol. They returned to the SS officer empty-handed.

The officer gave an order and soldiers herded the family outside while other troops called the entire town out into the square. There on the town square the SS machine-gunned the entire family -- father, mother, Charley's two friends, their older brother and a baby sister."


I am not placated by the argument that "This could never happen here".

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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Hell, it didn't happen THERE
This story is a fabrication, plain and simple. See my post above.
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friendly_iconoclast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Unfortunately, the anti's aren't the only purveyors of "faith promoting rumor"
This is right up there with "She Said Yes"
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ChrisKnox Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. Challenge to Euromutt: Debunk "The Belgian Corporal"
Euromutt has asserted that this story is false based on less evidence as I have to support it. I'm throwing down the challenge.

Euromutt, you claim some expertise in Belgium as well as its history and laws. My late father heard it first-hand and he believed it. He often expressed a desire to get more detail. I can't think of a better way to substantiate it than to enlist the aid of a skeptic bent on debunking. So, Euromutt, are you up to it?

I have very little to go on. I know that the man's name was Charles DeNaer, and I'm fairly confident of the spelling. Is that a "Smith" name, or is the DeNaer name more common in some regions than others? I know the makeup of the dead family. Two twin boys, an older sister and a baby sister.

I don't expect you to prove a negative, but I'd expect an atrocity like this one would have left some traces. If there's no trace of a similar story in Belgium, particularly in some area where the DeNaer name is known, then it weakens my dad's story. I'm willing to put it to the challenge.
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. I'll give it a shot
Edited on Tue Sep-22-09 07:23 AM by Euromutt
But first, I need you to answer a question: What will it take to convince that I'm right? See, I'm not particularly interested in chasing some moving goalposts.

The name "DeNaer" is not an unusual name in the province of Western Flanders, Eastern Flanders and Flemish Brabant, though it's more commonly spelled "De Naer." Perhaps Charles DeNaer had the spelling modified when he got naturalized.

I've already pointed out that the story contains a number of impossibilities, such as the gunsmith being required to register his stock of shotguns and hunting rifles, as hunting weapons were not required to be registered until 1990. These inaccuracies call the veracity of the whole story into question for me.

Moreover, here's a quote from the diaries of Paul Struye, who during the war was the chief editor of the the underground newspaper La Libre Belgique ("Free Belgium"):
Tijdens de eerste maanden was er werkelijk geen vijandschap te bespeuren tussen de bevolking en het leger. Het was een aangename verrassing voor de Belgen de Duitse soldaten te zien, correct in hun houding, in hun allure. Ze hadden niets gemeen met de keizerlijke troepen van 1914-1918. België werd bezet door een leger waarin orde en tucht heersten, zonder wandaden.

During the first months <of the occupation> there was truly no hostility to be detected between the <Belgian> population and the <German> army. It was a pleasant surprise for the Belgians to see the German soldiers, correct in their deportment, in their attitude. They had nothing in common with the imperial troops of 1914-1918. Belgium was occupied by an army in which order and discipline ruled, without atrocities.

Source: http://www.go2war2.nl/artikel/338/ "Resistance in Belgium"

It's worth noting that the occupation of Belgium differed from that of my native Netherlands in one important respect, which was that Belgium was under military government, whereas the Netherlands was placed under a "civilian" government. Lest you think that sounds like Belgium was worse off, bear in mind that at the time, the German concept of "civilian" government meant Nazi party functionaries, whereas military government meant the regular army. In fact, Himmler agitated that Belgium be placed under "civilian" government, but he did not get his wish until 07-Jun-1944, the day after D-Day.

However, I will tell what will go a long way to convincing me. On this page http://www.praats.be/gefusila.htm and the following is a list of 14,817 names of Belgian citizens executed or deported to concentration camps during the German invasion and occupation of 1940-1944. If the makeup of the family is correct, somewhere in this list you should find a grouping of six people--or possibly five if the mother is listed by her maiden name--with the same last name who all died on the same day. And that day, if Cpl. DeNaer's description of the incident is to be taken literally, should be in May or June 1940, though I'm willing to allow for some slippage of memory and say that anywhere in 1940 potentially qualifies. I appreciate this is a lot of work I'm foisting on you, but since it's the same amount of work it would take you to verify any claim I made that there was no such grouping of names, it's work you'd have had to do anyway.

If you can find me that grouping of names, Mr. Knox, I'll accept that there may be something to this story. Though if the notes concerning the deaths mention the place names Deinze, Meigem, Vinkt or Zeveren, these aren't relevant, since they relate to the "Vinkt massacre," which I described earlier in this thread, and which did not involve SS personnel or WWI-vintage Lugers.

In the interim, I'll see if I can find an e-mail or physical address for some Belgian institute of war documentation, so that I can ask them whether any records exist of an incident like the one Cpl. DeNaer described occurring.

Fair enough?

ETA this looks like the outfit to ask: the Centre for Historical Research and Documentation on War and Contemporary Society http://www.cegesoma.be/cms/index_en.php
I'll draft some communication to ask whether they have documentation concerning any incident resembling that described by Cpl. DeNaer.
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ChrisKnox Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. More than fair!
But first, I need you to answer a question: What will it take to convince that I'm right? See, I'm not particularly interested in chasing some moving goalposts.


That's fair. It's impossible to prove a negative, of course, but absence of evidence of a family massacre, particularly involving a WWI relic pistol and a family with a pair of twins and a baby will push this story from "Unsubstantiated/Possible" to the realm of "Unsubstantiated and Dubious." At the outset I consider it likely true for a number of reasons, some personal which I grant don't count.

  • At the time that Neal Knox heard the story he was not particularly interested in gun legislation other than as a shooter. In 1955 he had no particular axe to grind on the topic.

  • Charley (Charly? Charlie?) likewise had no particular axe to grind other than having witnessed a horror that involved people he loved.

  • Dad often expressed interest in tracking down Charley or in some other fashion substantiating the story. He was a reporter and hated not having facts — one reason that he didn't dwell on the story in public. Had he created the story out of whole cloth, I doubt he would have been that interested in substantiating it.

  • Dad hated tall tales. He once inadvertently repeated a bogus "pious fraud," that being the infamous "George Washington "Liberty Teeth" quote and went out of his way to correct it.


The name "DeNaer" is not an unusual name in the province of Western Flanders, Eastern Flanders and Flemish Brabant, though it's more commonly spelled "De Naer." Perhaps Charles DeNaer had the spelling modified when he got naturalized.

I cannot vouch for the placement of the space in DeNaer or De Naer.

I've already pointed out that the story contains a number of impossibilities, such as the gunsmith being required to register his stock of shotguns and hunting rifles, as hunting weapons were not required to be registered until 1990. These inaccuracies call the veracity of the whole story into question for me.

The guns were never described in detail and Charley's description would be questionable. He wasn't a gun guy.

According to the story, the gunsmith was an armorer to the king of Belgium. I don't know whether there was just one of those, or whether every gunsmith who happened to sell a gun to the royal family could claim the mantle. If it was an exclusive club, it might be a way to subset the data and get closer to the town. Or he might have been an old braggart.
As to the guns that were to be registered, what makes a hunting rifle a hunting rifle? It's a question as old as gun control. The turn-bolt action rifle was patented in 1895 by Paul Mauser and was the prototype for every military service up to WWII when the US introduced the M1 Garand semi-automatic rifle. A gorgeously engraved, gold-inlaid square-bridge Mauser with handsomely carved black walnut stock is still based on a military action, the German service rifle of the day. Would it be subject to registration? No clue here.

Moreover, here's a quote from the diaries of Paul Struye, who during the war was the chief editor of the the underground newspaper La Libre Belgique ("Free Belgium"):
...

We have never known how long after the registration order came down that the massacre occurred. Dad knew it was a matter of several years. He suggested trying to find the date of the Belgian law as the beginning of an effort to substantiate the story. Learning it was 1933 actually starts pulling it into range.

Charley was "well over thirty," according to Dad. That would place his birth year somewhere between 1925 and 1930. If the gun registration law came into effect in 1933 he would have been born closer to 1925. In the 1940 invasion he would have been a teenager, and the twins would have been a similar age. Again, we've never had a date for the actual massacre. If the early days of the occupation went comparatively smoothly, as noted in Libre Belgique, then there would have been little reason to commit an act like this. Later in the occupation, but before the Allied invasion, folks might have grown restless, perhaps taking a stray shot at the isolated patrol. That might have prompted the Germans to take harsher measures and track down the guns they could find. Based on what you've provided, I'm betting later than 1940 but before 1943.

To your point in an earlier post about the nature of the German troops, that the troops were SS is speculation on Dad's part. When he told the story at the table, he usually said something like "probably SS."

Source: http://www.go2war2.nl/artikel/338 / "Resistance in Belgium"

My God. This is horrific.

In the interim, I'll see if I can find an e-mail or physical address for some Belgian institute of war documentation, so that I can ask them whether any records exist of an incident like the one Cpl. DeNaer described occurring.

Fair enough?

More than fair!

It really doesn't help the argument against registration if the stories we offer up can be shown to be fabrications.

On this point, we are in absolute agreement. The story had the ring of truth to Dad when he heard it from an eyewitness. The opportunity to substantiate the story is a big deal to me. You've given me the lead I've been looking for.

Thank you!

Chris Knox
http://www.nealknox.com/
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appal_jack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-22-09 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Welcome to DU Chris!
I wish you the best in unearthing the facts of this story.

Also, thanks to Euromutt for some detailed context, history, and questions.

Having read the exchanges between you both, I find the dialogue heartening and the history fascinating. Hope the entire set of questions leads to some good answers.

:hi:

-app
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-23-09 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Well, I'm interested in getting to the bottom of this now
As to the guns that were to be registered, what makes a hunting rifle a hunting rifle? It's a question as old as gun control. The turn-bolt action rifle was patented in 1895 by Paul Mauser and was the prototype for every military service up to WWII when the US introduced the M1 Garand semi-automatic rifle. A gorgeously engraved, gold-inlaid square-bridge Mauser with handsomely carved black walnut stock is still based on a military action, the German service rifle of the day. Would it be subject to registration? No clue here.

The Belgian service rifle of the day as well, specifically the M1935 and (in the reserve units) the 1889, both chambered in 7.65x53mm. The answer that matters in this instance is what the definitions are according to the Belgian weapons law of 1933. A rifle with a Mauser action would have been classed as a "weapon of war" if it was in a "military caliber" (the law was less than clear on whether that meant only Belgian military calibers or those of other country's armed forces as well). If it was chambered for a non-military caliber, it would fall under hunting weapons, and thus not be required to be registered.

According to the story, the gunsmith was an armorer to the king of Belgium. I don't know whether there was just one of those, or whether every gunsmith who happened to sell a gun to the royal family could claim the mantle. If it was an exclusive club, it might be a way to subset the data and get closer to the town. Or he might have been an old braggart.

I'd go with the hypothesis that he'd received a "royal warrant" for supplying one or more weapons to the court. There's currently only one warrant holder for hunting guns, and that's E.J. Binet & Sons in Brussels, but they've only been in business since 1927, so our gunsmith might easily predate that. However, to illustrate wider possible interpretations, Binet doesn't make their own guns, they buy them from a small number of gunmakers, including FN (which is, after all, a Belgian company) but also a few small Belgian workshops (Duarme Liège and Lebeau-Courally); it is possible that our guy worked for one of these companies before setting up his own shop, and that one or more guns he made while working there was sold to the court.

Charley was "well over thirty," according to Dad. That would place his birth year somewhere between 1925 and 1930.
If DeNaer was "well over thirty" in 1955, it would put his date of birth prior to 1925. But not by too much, because if he'd been 18 or over by early 1940, he'd have been drafted, and that would further have complicated the story.

That said, I'm now open to the possibility that your father's story about Cpl. DeNaer may have been somewhat mutated in being passed on, so that, for all I know, it might not have occurred in 1955 in the first place. Let me make one thing very clear: the story as it is presented in the link from the OP is implausible. In particular, it this passage that is troublesome as written:
A year or two later, the blitzkrieg rolled across the Low Countries. One day not long after, the war arrived in Charley's town. A squad of German SS troops banged on the door of a house that Charley knew well.

If that's not an accurate representation of the story Charles DeNaer told your father, and--to use your example--the execution occurred in 1943 or early 1944 rather than 1940, that makes the story a lot more plausible. The "SS troops" might have been Sicherheitsdienst ("security service"), which was a "civilian" SS component.

Later in the occupation, but before the Allied invasion, folks might have grown restless, perhaps taking a stray shot at the isolated patrol. That might have prompted the Germans to take harsher measures and track down the guns they could find.

Direct armed action started to become more common shortly after the German defeat at Stalingrad, partly because it made it clear that Germany could lose the war, and that realization also prompted the Germans to become repressive in the occupied territories.

However, it's still thin. The Germans simply did not routinely conduct summary executions in the low countries, except in direct reprisal for assassinations of German personnel or prominent collaborators (for example, on 29-Nov-1942, eight people were shot in Charleroi in reprisal for the assassination of the quisling mayor), or acts of major sabotage. Those killed were typically people already in Nazi custody, either as hostages or on suspicion of resistance activity (often already designated Todeskandidaten, "candidates for death"). Captured resistance members were frequently executed, but not before having been thoroughly interrogated; most were sent to concentration camps. In situations like the one in Cpl. DeNaer's story, the more typical punitive action would have been to ship the whole family off to a concentration camp.

Another thing to bear in mind is that the Germans need not have gained their information from Belgian government records. Collaborators ratted on their neighbors in every occupied country, and the Flemish-speaking part of Belgium in particular had a comparatively high number of them. All it would have taken was one neighbor holding a grudge who remembered from before the war that the father had this old German pistol...
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ChrisKnox Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Getting to the bottom of it....
I wrote a long missive the other night and thought I had posted it, however it's disappeared into the ether. I've reconstructed my major points below.

  • The gunsmith
    Probably a dead end for initiating a search, as the "king's armorer" could mean anything. If we do get this narrowed down to the town, I may have to take a trip to Belgium to tour some railroad crossings....

  • Charley's age
    I think a window of 1922 to 1925 would be a good bet. One of the few things I'm certain about in this story is the time that it was told. 1955 was a significant year for Dad, and he was always good with dates. That also narrows down the age of the twin boys, who were about as old as Charley.

  • On the time between the gun law and the invasion
    This is where Dad's knowledge was weak. He did not know the year of the gun law, but remarked that learning that would go a long way toward narrowing it down. Learning that year and a bit about the terms of the law is a big step.

  • On the original motivation of the massacre
    Yes, it's very thin, but as you point out, it's unusual, and therefore it's more likely to stand out. If this atrocity had happened in Poland or Bosnia, it would have been one of a hundred. That the story is set in Belgium may make it stand out. Unless somebody can bear witness to the Germans using the gun registration records to execute the search, that will remain an admittedly slim connection. Whatever the cause, it's obvious from the story that the Germans wanted to make an impression, thus calling out the entire town.

    Speculation: It could be that Papa knew full well where that pistol was but didn't want to show a freshly fired gun, having used it on a German soldier the previous week. Or possibly even the boys. It's not hard to imagine a pair a rambunctious 14-year-old twins who decided to be part of the Resistance. A witness might have fingered this family, prompting the Germans to take a trip to the village. Prior to leaving, did they check with the gun registry? We'll probably never know. But the registry was there.


I wrote an email to the maintainer of http://www.go2war2.nl/artikel/338 / "Resistance in Belgium" asking for access to his raw data. I'd like to do a bit of data mining looking for a family group with twins born between 1922 and 1925. I think that's going to be the most likely path. From there we can get the town and then perhaps uncover any local stories.

Euromutt, regardless how this turns out, thank you for your help and your healthy skepticism. I wish my dad were around to see this. As I've noted, he was a reporter and he loved getting at the truth.
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Euromutt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-25-09 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Well, I'm glad this has been a fruitful discussion
As you rightly note, if something like this had occurred in Poland or Yugoslavia, it would indeed have been almost routine. Though if you don't my commenting on your speculation, I would speculate that it would have been at least as likely that the father knew where the gun had gone because he'd slipped it to a friend who was in the resistance the previous year, and if I'd been the German detachment commander, that's exactly what I would suspect. But if so, I would have hauled the family in for interrogation to get a name, and then haul that person in for interrogation, etc. Don't think I'm attributing the Germans' reluctance to shoot people out of hand as being motivated by humanitarian concerns; it's more that you can't question a corpse.

Be that as it may, however, it's still speculation. If you'd like, I'd be happy to send an e-mail to the CEGES-SOMA, the Belgian war documentation center, to ask whether they have any records of incidents that broadly match Cpl. DeNaer's story.
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ChrisKnox Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-26-09 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Let's keep digging!
By all means send them the email. Please cc: me. I'm sending you my email by PM.

Chris

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ChrisKnox Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-08-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Any response from CEGES-SOMA?
It's been a couple of weeks since the last action. I never heard back from the "Resistance in Belgium" sit owner. I may sit down and do some automated scripting to dredge that database. Meantime, I was wondering if you heard anything new from CEGES-SOMA.

Chris
http://www.firearmscoalition.org/
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