90% of gunz seized from Mexican drug cartels come from U.S. REALLY?

[Hoopla Phil]

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mike-sargent/2009/06/18/devil-details-la-times-ignores-substance-attacks-u-s-gun-manufacturers

_______________________________________________________________
If you were to not read Josh Meyer’s June 17 article very carefully, you might think that 90 percent of the weapons recovered from Mexican cartel raids originated in the United States

Pay close attention, however, to the wording. That’s 90 percent of the seized firearms – that authorities are able to trace. This wording actually reflects the vagueness of the GAO report’s highlights:

In other words, the sample size used to manufacture the 90-percent statistic is roughly one-quarter of the actual number of weapons seized. Of those weapons lucky enough to be chosen for ATF examination, 90 percent came from the United States. Even more strangely, the L.A. Times overlooks an important issue with the GAO’s methodology:
__________________________________________________________________


Please read the whole article at the link posted above.

[aquart]

1. Well, that makes all the difference.

[Hoopla Phil]

2. As the old axiom goes. . .

Figures don't lie, but lier's figure. . . .

[villager]

3. From a site which proclaims "Exposing Liberal Media Bias"

Tells you all you need to know about the "rebuttal," really...

[Euromutt]

4. If you don't like the message, attack the messenger, eh?

A few minor inaccuracies aside, the numbers are all there in the GAO report itself. The report acknowledges the available data is a fraction of what it should be, but then ignores that acknowledgment and makes policy recommendations with utter--and unjustified--certainty.

[villager]

5. Ah, so there's no "context" from a World Net Daily "article," for example?

Nice selectivity, there...

and a bogus point, to boot...

[Euromutt]

13. There's nothing wrong with being skeptical

And certain sources should be examined more critically than others. But you can't totally dismiss something purely because of the source.

To compare, World Net Daily has a weather page. If that page says the weather in your area is predicted to be 65-70°F and sunny, are you going to insist it can't be true because WND says so? Even if it actually is 68° and there's not a cloud in sight?

The question is, can the claims made in the article be corroborated? Well, you can read the report yourself and find that the claims made are, by and large, correct. It's hardly a "bogus point" to note that claims made are verifiably true. In fact, I'd say the only one making a "bogus point" here is you, villager, by maintaining that your crappy ad hominem has more weight than reality.

[X_Digger]

7. Here's my take, directly from the GAO report..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=230890&mesg_id=231532

Read the report for yourself and see if you don't come to the same conclusion.

[Hoopla Phil]

8. HaHaHa. Funny post. LOL

[villager]

9. Yes, I suppose the thoroughly discredited source kinda makes the OP "funny"

...in a manner of speaking...

[Hoopla Phil]

10. HaHaHa "thoroughly discredited" LOL HaHaHa. Now THAT's comedy!

[villager]

12. Better comedy: The "headlines" on your fave website's homepage!

Though I would worry about you, Phil, if you couldn't see the obvious humor there!

:hi:

[Hoopla Phil]

15. Now you seem to be speaking in tongues. Very odd. . . .Hummm

[villager]

17. Whatever... enjoy your revised version of Monty Python's "argument skit!"

cheers!

[spin]

6. Many of the weapons come from the Mexican army...

Last week Gen. Ángeles Dahuajare announced that more than 17,000 soldiers had deserted in 2008.

"The Mexican Army is becoming a revolving door for the enforcement arm of the drug cartels; they simply pay better," Stewart said.

"If they don't get the weapons from the U.S., they'll get it from somewhere else: Brazil, Guatemala, Argentina or even former satellite state 'gray markets,'" he said.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,487911,00.html

It would be my bet that those 17,000 soldiers took their weapons with them when they left.

I also found an article in the Los Angeles Times very interesting and informative:

The Feb. 21 attack on police headquarters in coastal Zihuatanejo, which injured four people, fit a disturbing trend of Mexico's drug wars. Traffickers have escalated their arms race, acquiring military-grade weapons, including hand grenades, grenade launchers, armor-piercing munitions and antitank rockets with firepower far beyond the assault rifles and pistols that have dominated their arsenals.

Most of these weapons are being smuggled from Central American countries or by sea, eluding U.S. and Mexican monitors who are focused on the smuggling of semiauto- matic and conventional weapons purchased from dealers in the U.S. border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California.

****snip****

The enhanced weaponry represents a wide sampling from the international arms bazaar, with grenades and launchers produced by U.S., South Korean, Israeli, Spanish or former Soviet bloc manufacturers. Many had been sold legally to governments, including Mexico's, and then were diverted onto the black market. Some may be sold directly to the traffickers by corrupt elements of national armies, authorities and experts say.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mexico-arms-race15-2009mar15,0,229992.story

I suspect we'll continue to keep hearing the story about how American gun shows and gun dealers are supplying the Mexican cartels with all their firepower. It's an exaggeration that borders on a lie. But the news media will keep repeating it over and over again hoping that people will finally accept the story as truth.

[slackmaster]

11. The figure reflects only guns that have been actually submitted to BATFE for tracing, AND...

People who repeat that factoid never seem to distinguish between diverted military weapons and firearms exported illegally from the civilian sporting arms market.

[Euromutt]

16. ... and which the ATF were able to actually trace.

For example, of the 7,200 guns submitted to the ATF for tracing by the Mexican authorities in FY2008, 500 could not be traced. Those do not form part of the 10% of non-US guns traced.

[Taitertots]

14. Basically

Mexico sent us all the guns they thought came from America. We took from those the ones we thought could be traced. Then said 90% of those traced came from Mexico.