Homeowner takes a shot at burglar

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

OKLAHOMA CITY -- One burglar may be considering a different profession after nearly losing his life during a break-in, last Wednesday.

Heather Fitzgerald says she was checking e-mail in her garage with the garage partially open. Shortly before 3:00 a.m., however, an intruder crawled in.

Heather immediately worried for her children, who were sleeping inside the home. She grabbed her 9-milimeter pistol and fired two shots at the man.

Police do not believe he was hit because they found no blood at the scene. As he was running away, she says she lined up the gun's laser sight on his back, but did not pull the trigger again, most likely sparing his life.

"I just, I couldn't do it," Fitzgerald says. "And it took everything that I had, not to. Seems like you should be able to be in your own garage at night when it's dark and not have to worry about that kind of stuff."


http://www.kfor.com/news/local/kfor-news-homeowner-shoots-story,0,2893349.story

[FLAprogressive]

1. I bet he'll think twice before trying to steal!

[Hoopla Phil]

2. When are these crooks going to learn that "stuff" is NOT worth dieing for.

[Shagbark Hickory]

19. When are gun owners going to learn stuff is not worth dying for?

[Hoopla Phil]

20. Sorry but one is predicate on the other. Your logic path is broken.

[Caliman73]

24. Stuff isn't worth dying for...your family however is worth protecting by any means.

If someone is entering your home illegally, do you think that they are there for a friendly visit? The woman didn't wait to ask the burglar if he was there to peacefully remove "stuff" from her home. She did what was within her right to do. She defended herself, her family, and her belongings. If she wanted to kill the burglar, she had him in her sights, so obviously stuff wasn't worth killing for her either once the immediate threat was gone. Do you get tired of making irrational statements?

[Shagbark Hickory]

28. If you are too much of a wuss to shoo off some vagrant then ends up in your garage without a gun

then you may suffer from low t.

Personally I use an metal t-ball bat for self defense.
I can whack the shit out of someone with my bat if I have to but you can just say 'hey asshole get the fuck out of my garage!'

[Caliman73]

29. Ok there tough guy...

I guess you continue to make irrational statements. First of all, we are talking about a woman at home alone with her children in the house, taken by surprise. Second we are talking about physical strength differences between a woman and a man. Third, a bat can be dangerous but to someone determined to do you harm, it may not be enough. Some guy attacked some friends and I with a bat. He left me a nice scar on my eye, but I mangaged to put that guy on his ass without any weapon except my hands so you can keep your t-ball bat. I hope you never have to use it.

[Shagbark Hickory]

31. Yeah those weak little ladies, right? They're not strong enough to yell GTFO my garage assholllllle!

When someone walks into a garage at night it's because they want to steal your shit. They don't think you're in there checking your email! All you have to do is say "Get the fuck out of here asshole".
You try it.
Go on.
Practice. Say it "Get-the-fuck, out-of-here, asshole. You ain't takin' my shit tonight."

If you have weak little ladies in your household, practice yelling that phrase with them. So that it's just automatic impulse. Rather than pulling out a gun which will not end well.

[Hoopla Phil]

33. Yep. That good ol yelling. That stops rapists and murderers in there tracks all right.

[Euromutt]

34. Standard advice is, if attacked, to shout "fire"

This is because it tends to get people's attention because a fire might pose a threat to their persons or property. If you just shout "help," they might conclude that they're not at risk and ignore you.

Tells you how effective shouting is considered to be, doesn't it?

[Shagbark Hickory]

39. She wasn't being raped or murdered. Her garage was being robbed!!

[Euromutt]

49. At three in the morning?

See, you were right up-thread that "burglars usually want to steal your shit and leave." But burglars in the United States also usually don't break into a residence if they think there's somebody home (something to do with the fear of acute lead poisoning), and that means they usually carry out burglaries in the day time. When somebody tries to get into your house at 3:00 AM, there's a very good likelihood that that person is not just there "to steal your shit."

In states with a "Castle Doctrine" law (which includes Oklahoma, since 2006), you may assume that a person who breaks into your house is doing with the intent of inflicting bodily harm on the occupants and has the means to do so, and respond accordingly.

[Shagbark Hickory]

58. Be advised: Burglar was entering open garage.

Ooopsie

[X_Digger]

60. Yes, so 'open' that he had to crawl under the door..

fail

[Statistical]

62. Breaking & Entering is a incorrect term.

Most states use the term "unlawful entry".

He had no lawful reason to enter the residence.
Given that his entry was unlawful and the victim was protected under Castle Doctrine.

Of course every state varies. Even two states with 'Castle Doctrine' may have very different laws so it is up to the responsible gun owner to know the laws for their state.

[Euromutt]

63. Partially open, with someone visibly present inside

You can't check your e-mail in the dark; if nothing else, there's going be light from the monitor. So this guy comes crawling under the door into a garage where he could quite readily have established (and very likely did) that an occupant of the house was present. You don't think he was anticipating that he might have to overcome some resistance (i.e. use unlawful physical force) before he could make off with the lawnmower?

[Euromutt]

35. Why "will [it] not end well"?

I mean, you want to apply some reasoned argument here, rather than throwing out some unspecified claim?

[Caliman73]

36. It ended pretty well for the woman.

The burglar was scared off and nobody was injured. It seems to end well in the 90,000 (conservative estimate) to 2 million times per year where law abiding citizens use a firearm defensively 90% of them resulting in no shots fired.

[yay]

37. Just a quick question for you.

What happens if the asshole doesn't "get the fuck out"? What do you do then?

Or is there some kinda "burglers code" that when someone says GTFO they have to GTFO?

[Shagbark Hickory]

40. Then you use the bat. But you won't have to. Burglars usually just want to steal your shit and leave

[Hoopla Phil]

41. "use a bat" you say. So you replace one deadly weapon with another? But

what about the small or the infirm standing up to the strong? Would you tell a little person that stands all of 3 feet to use a bat against a 6'6" man that may be strung out on dope? Or how about the 5'5" lady, or the paraplegic in the wheel chair. I firearm is still the best means of self defense out there and I will not deny someone their second amendment right to them. Would you?

[Shagbark Hickory]

42. A bat doesn't accidently go off when your son and his buddy find it one day

But I will give you this: Using a gun is probably the best way to hunt for deer.

[Hoopla Phil]

43. Great deflection on the topic! Typical. Care to answer the questions I posed?

I somehow think not.

[Shagbark Hickory]

46. Either you guessed correctly or I missed the questions.

[Hoopla Phil]

48. Perhaps you missed the question. Go up-thread a little.

[Hoopla Phil]

65. Here it is again. THESE are the questions you've not answered. That you "missed"

what about the small or the infirm standing up to the strong? Would you tell a little person that stands all of 3 feet to use a bat against a 6'6" man that may be strung out on dope? Or how about the 5'5" lady, or the paraplegic in the wheel chair. A firearm is still the best means of self defense out there and I will not deny someone their second amendment right to them. Would you?

[Shagbark Hickory]

71. I may not be understanding the question fully but

Depends on the scenario.

If you are being mugged and being instructed to hand over your ____insert replaceable object here___. Then you do it. The confrontation should end just as quickly as it began.

If an non-threatening person has broken into your garage while you're in the garage, you tell them to get out. Chances are they will since they were most likely there to steal something. They want your your power tools, they don't want to kill you. Don't give them a reason to. If you alert them to the fact you know they are there then chances are they will scurry away like cockroaches that don't want to get caught.

If a person is told by a burglar at gun/knifepoint to do something, it is foolish to do anything but comply.

If a strung out doper comes into the house and is unarmed and for the most part, non-threatening and refuses to leave then occupants of the house should immediately leave the house and call for help. If an able-bodied person feels they have a chance of taking down the intruder, then a bat is really a better option than a gun. A lot less mopping up afterwards.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

74. So you are advising people to attack a gunman with a bat. I think we'll ignore that advice.

[gorfle]

76. on "replaceable objects"

If you are being mugged and being instructed to hand over your ____insert replaceable object here___. Then you do it. The confrontation should end just as quickly as it began.

I refuse to adopt the idea that my things are "replaceable objects" and that I should freely give them over to any criminal who asks for them.

The simple fact of the matter is that everything I own represents portions of my life that I exchanged to acquire them. Those portions of my life are not replaceable. And so while I might be able to replace, say, my TV, I can't replace the possibly months of labor it took to acquire the previous one.

This is why I reject the idea that, "No one's life is worth a TV." Wrong. Anyone who breaks into my home has, by their own actions, immediately placed the value of their own life at the value of whatever they are attempting to steal. I will oblige them.

[Hoopla Phil]

77. So your advice is pacifism, compliance and hope for the best?

No thanks. I'll trust to myself and my .45. Oh, and what about rape? Would you suggest the lady try to "talk" her way out of it or what?

[Hoopla Phil]

79. So what advice would you give this woman?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3vWsa4ags&feature=related

[Hoopla Phil]

44. what about the small or the infirm standing up to the strong?

what about the small or the infirm standing up to the strong? Would you tell a little person that stands all of 3 feet to use a bat against a 6'6" man that may be strung out on dope? Or how about the 5'5" lady, or the paraplegic in the wheel chair. I firearm is still the best means of self defense out there and I will not deny someone their second amendment right to them. Would you?

[Shagbark Hickory]

45. It depends. In a mugging or armed robbery, law enforcement professionals all agree:

Just hand over the goods. Don't try to be a hero, that usually doesn't end well. Plus you don't have the right to just shoot people.
Using a bat is slightly better because if you fuck up and use it in the wrong scenario, the person you use it on most likely won't die. Which means you will be sued for all you're worth but you won't be in the pen.

[Hoopla Phil]

47. So rape is like the weather? You can't do anything about it so

just lay back and enjoy it? Not for me or mine. I gave my wife a .38 and would rather she shoot the S.O.B. How about you?

And why do you pre-suppose that the mugger will just stop at the wallet? You have an interesting ideal that there is some sort of honor in a criminal. . .

[Shagbark Hickory]

55. What does rape have to do with this?

If you don't want to get raped, hand over the pocketbook. Otherwise try to be a hero.

[Hoopla Phil]

64. I lot really. I whole lot. Too bad you cannot make the connection.

And no I will not hand over my "pocketbook". I'll rely on my legally carried .45. You, by all means feel free to trust the honor of a criminal to not harm you. Doesn't always end the way you say it will.

[Shagbark Hickory]

72. Really not a good strategy to prove to a doper that is mugging you that you will win.

Best to hand over the pocketbook. While they are in their frame of mind, they have nothing to lose. You have everything to lose.
They can easily reach over and try to manually disarm you. Then look who's got the gun. You really don't want to introduce a lethal weapon. Only as an absolute last resort. Certainly not for a wallet.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

73. That's really funny, Do you write comedy for a living?

[Hoopla Phil]

78. So you want to hope for the best from someone that you say

"has nothing to loose"? And I do not have everything to loose; rather, I have everything to protect. As far as your consistent meme about having the gun taken away by the bad guy goes, no way. To use your "common sense" meme it is simply not going to happen.

I wonder how many pacifists have died at the hands of a bad guy thinking "how could this happen to me"?

[Hoopla Phil]

80. Nice deflection of my pointed question about rape. What would you advice. . .

in this situation smart guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3vWsa4ags&feature=related

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

67. So you think people are raped because they fight a robbery? If so you are an idiot.

[Euromutt]

50. If you are threatened with a deadly weapon...

... you absolutely have the right to employ lethal force in your defense. That's not a case of "just shooting someone."

Don't think that the law doesn't consider a baseball bat to be a deadly weapon, by the way, and if you clobber someone with and can't establish that you had a reasonable belief the elements of ability, opportunity, and jeopardy were present, you might just as readily find yourself doing time. If you reasonably believe you're at risk of permanent injury or death, and that you therefore justified in employing lethal force, you may as well do it right and go for the weapon that gives you a range advantage instead of mucking about with a bat.

And yes, it is generally good advice to not try to resist a mugger or armed robber, <i>if said person has the drop on you</i>. However, various studies into the frequency of successful defensive gun uses indicate that circumstances can quite readily exist in which a prospective victim can produce a firearm and successfully employ it. In an overwhelming majority of DGUs, no shots are fired.

[Shagbark Hickory]

56. Am I just supposed to take your word for it because you sound so official-like?

Tell it to the judge.
After a stay in jail and tens of thousands in legal expenses the jury might agree it was self defense.

[X_Digger]

61. *snort* You say that..

.. in a post about someone who took a pot shot at a robber.. and isn't being charged.

Your honor, the defense rests :)

[Euromutt]

68. See you in the next cell, then

If you think wrongly whacking someone with a baseball bat won't get you arrested, there's no fucking way you get to pretend you're smarter than I am.

To which I might add that if you aren't familiar with the elements of ability, opportunity and jeopardy, you don't have a reliable way of knowing whether you're justified in swinging that bat of yours, which means you're a damn sight more likely to see the inside of a holding cell and multiple courtrooms than I am. This is standard stuff, and the fact that you haven't even heard of it tells me you haven't bothered to even begin to familiarize yourself with the commonly accepted rules on self-defense under American law.

And yes, I provide you citations, but considering how full of yourself you are, I'm not going to bother digging them up unless and until you explicitly ask.

[Taitertots]

52. I'll tell that to my friend Mason

He worked at the gas station a block from my house. After putting up no defense and giving the robber all the money ($200) he was executed.

If you unlawfully beat someone with a baseball bat you will certainly end up in jail, in addition to being sued.

The one to two million people who use guns defensively every year would also disagree with you.

[Shagbark Hickory]

57. One to two million people would disagree with me on healthcare and civil rights too...

They're called republicans.

[Taitertots]

59. What about Mason?

He did exactly what you advocate and it got him murdered.


Try to be valid. There are millions of defensive uses of firearms every year.

[Euromutt]

69. Whoa, where's that fishy smell coming from?

Oh right, it's coming from that stinking red herring Shagbark there just dumped into this thread.

[Statistical]

70. Um in most states you do "have the right to just shoot people"

Castle Doctrine places the presumption of intent to commit bodily harm on the person unlawful entering.
Stand your ground laws allow you to use lethal force to prevent violent crime.

Most states even without CD or SUD allow lethal self defense to be used against criminal to prevent death or bodily harm.

[Taitertots]

53. Of course he would

He is strong enough to use a bat. It doesn't matter that not everyone is internet superman, like him. I'm not going to lie, I can't beat people up. Bat or no bat it isn't going to take much to beat me up.

Replace one deadly weapon with an infinitely less effective tool for the same outcome.

[Taitertots]

54. It ended great for the lady in the story

I think two gun shots is a far better GTFO statement than anything screamed by a petite woman.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

66. It ended perfectly well in this situation. I guess that proves your bigotry wrong.

[Taitertots]

51. Good luck with all that

You sure like to pretend that you are such a bad ass that you can beat anyones ass. I'm not foolish enough to believe that. There are plenty of people big, strong, and fast enough to whoop you even with a bat. Or more than one person could show up.


That sounds like great advise for me to give my father who is old and has a bad shoulder.

[gorfle]

75. What the hell are we supposed to use man? Harsh language?

To quote Frost from Aliens, "What the hell are we supposed to use man? Harsh language?"

It is wonderful if you have the physical ability to defend yourself from harm using only the strength of your body. Not everyone does. There is a saying, "God made man, but Samuel Colt made them equal", and there is a reason for that saying. Not everyone has the physical ability to defend themselves using only the strength of their bodies. But nearly everyone has the physical ability to operate a firearm.

Yelling at an intruder is a nice thought, but any determined attacker is not going to be dissuaded. If you want to bet your life and limb that words will be sufficient to drive an invader out of your home, that is your choice. Others may chose differently.

[depakid]

3. Oh, looky- Dave is posting his scary stories again

Be afraid, be very afraid....

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

4. Just have to balance all the fear you try and spread.

[depakid]

6. Give us some more of that projection!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

7. I appreciate the new quote. I'll start using it real soon.

[Hoopla Phil]

16. This from the person that said it should be illegal for anyone under 18 to touch a firearm.

Tell me where the actual fear is?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

5. The criminals should definitely be afraid. At least in the US, not so much where you live.

[depakid]

8. Let me speak frankly here- you asked several times before, so I'll answer

Not only do I find that these (and other) posts evincing cowardice, insecurity and inadequacy but it also makes one wonder whether certain folks get a hard on over this type of stuff.

Wouldn't bother me all that much- except that you go around trying to spread fear in others to get them to bring home guns.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

9. That's honestly just laughable.

The simple fact is that guns are often used to protect the innocent. You don't like it, I don't really care. The intent of these posts is to balance the shrill, cowardly voices ever crying guns are evil, guns are evil. Your immature attempts at insults are childish, but very telling nonetheless.

David

[depakid]

10. The simple fact is

that you create a greater risk of harm by having guns in the household. You may not accept that- but that's the conclusion from the research- and the consensus in the epidemiological community.

Now, you and I agree about the anti-vacciners, and I have some thoughts about why that is (which I'll keep to myself) so it's sort of curious that you'd be into proliferating firearms.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

11. In what way am I proliferating firearms?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

12. You know if you are going to make an accusation you should back it up.

[TheWraith]

13. Once again, correlation is not causation.

Those "studies" you cite don't distinguish between illegal guns and legal ones, nor do they account for the fact that people who already live in high-crime areas are more likely to have a gun than people who live in the burbs. If you want a valid study, compare the rates of completed violent crime victimization between legal gun owners and non-gun-owners in the same neighborhood of a major city.

There is no logical reason to assume that simply owning a gun makes someone go insane and start killing people, any more than being around gay people makes you gay, or owning a car automatically makes you run down a crowd of schoolchildren. It's idiocy.

[TPaine7]

21. Not to mention that the "epidemiological community"

is a community that is qualified to study contagious diseases and how they spread.

Criminologists are qualified to discuss the relationships between tools and crime.

Think about it; your tax accountant may be highly skilled, but would you put much weight on a study he conducted on brain surgery techniques?

[Hoopla Phil]

22. It doesn't matter. He won't be able to cite either one LMFAO!!!

[Hoopla Phil]

18. That is NOT a fact but your irrational fear of an object.

You mention research yet do not cite it? AGAIN??? Of course this is where you will now say that citing is not necessary as "it is common knowledge" or that you are "discussing abstract thought". It's all bunk and you cannot cite any proof or your so-called "facts".

[Hoopla Phil]

17. So anyone that keeps a first aid kit in their car is in fear? No they

are being pragmatic. Being armed as you go about is pragmatic also, not irrational fear. The irrational fear is spread by people that say good people become madmen by the mere presence of a firearm. THAT is irrational fear.

[slackmaster]

14. If you don't go breaking into occupied homes, you have nothing to be afraid of

:hi:

[Hoopla Phil]

15. Oh looky, guess who jumped in.

[proteus_lives]

23. Scary for the woman. I'm glad she kept her cool and defended her family.

My dad once had to confront a burglar, (he was armed, thank god.)

[vincna]

25. She needs to spend more time at the range

Some double tap drills are in order

[Caliman73]

26. Perhaps, but I think the story ends better when the woman and her family are safe

and no one has to die. As she said, she has him in her laser sights and could have possibly shot and killed him, but she chose not to. The moral here is that a firearm was used to defend life and property, it succeeded, and no life was lost. That is the best possible outcome.

[vincna]

27. You are, of course, correct

My post was based on the assumption she was trying to hit the burglar with her two shots. No one wants to see anyone die unnecessarilly, but in a self defense situation, the need to be able to shoot accurately is obvious.

[Statistical]

30. As over 90% of defensive gun uses each year are.

Getting into a gun fight with a homeowner is really a lose lose for a criminal
1) not all criminals carry a firearm. burglars know having a firearm moves it from class 2 to class 1 + firearms charge
2) worst case scenario the criminal is dead
3) "best" case scenario they kill the homeowner and now upgraded to felony murder charge
4) gun battles tend to make cops actually respond quickly.

Given all that it shouldn't be surprising that 90% of the up to 2.5 DGU each year involve no shots fired.

[Euromutt]

32. Good impulse control on her part, too

Once the guy turned and ran, she'd have been in trouble if she'd put a round in his back. But she very properly held her fire.

[yay]

38. She did a good job here

She could have easily laid him out, glad she didn't otherwise she'd be facing a long investigation with lots of painful court fee's.

Shooting someone in the back is a big no-no.