Why did Congress let the Assault gun bill lapse?

[Parche]

I agree that people need to defend themselves and should be allowed to have guns, but not assault weapons .
:hi:

[Junkdrawer]

1. Pressure from the gun lobby who knew that the market for more powerful....

rapid firing, bad ass looking rifles was huge in an atmosphere of hyped up fear.

And how right they were....

[Occam Bandage]

4. I don't think we should be banning things based on their "bad-ass-looking" qualities. nt

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

2. Because it was a meaningless feel-good bill

[havocmom]

5. and would prevent DEMs from winning in many districts

I do not understand this fascination with bills that won't help but will keep DEMs out of office. :shrug:

[Occam Bandage]

3. Because "assault weapon" has a purely cosmetic definition.

"Assault weapon" means only "gun that looks scary."

[B o d i]

10. Detachable magazines are purely cosmetic?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_Weapons_Ban

[OmahaBlueDog]

35. A magazine is just a tool to hold bullets

The magazine is not what you want to worry about. What you want to worry about is rate of fire and caliber. What you want to worry about more are background checks -- and as VA Tech proved, that's not just on the dealer -- the State has to their job record keeping.

If I could get one law changed, though, it would be to close the "gun show" loophole.

[X_Digger]

88. *sigh* What you really mean is..

.. ban individual to individual sales, yes?

Because a licensed gun dealer, whether at his shop, at a gun show, or out of his back door- has to do an NICS check on every buyer. No if's, and's, or but's.

[bossy22]

36. but it didnt ban

detachable mags....it just said if your gun had a detachable mag it couldnt have certain features

[MercutioATC]

44. Plenty of non-banned firearms have detachable magazines.

[benEzra]

83. Detachable magazines weren't one of the "evil features" to be banned.

Protruding handgrips, threaded muzzles, flash suppressors, bayonet lugs, etc. were. Also, for pistols, the magazine attaching forward of the grip, or a heat guard on the barrel.

Cosmetic or ergonomic, and irrelevant to lethality.

As I have mentioned elsewhere, the following rifle is a Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle that I owned for several years:



I owned three stocks for it:



It was deemed "particularly suitable for sporting purposes" under the 1994 Feinstein non-ban with the first stock, and is not restricted in any state; is a banned "assault weapon" in California with the second stock (but still "particularly suitable for sporting purposes" under the Feinstein non-ban); and would have been an "assault weapon" under the 1994 Federal "Feinstein ban" with the third stock.

It would also be a banned "assault weapon" in California with the first (wooden) stock, if it were fitted with a a flash suppressor/flame damper like this (the thing on the end of the barrel, not the scope rail on top):



Again, cosmetic or ergonomic, having no bearing on lethality.

Given that only 3% of U.S. murders involve rifles at all, expending political capital to legislate rifle handgrip shape and muzzle style is counterproductive and wrongheaded, and would do nothing about criminal violence even if it were enacted. (And one can completely forget about turning the clock back to the 1860's on magazine capacities; Not Going to Happen.)

[billyoc]

6. Because it never really banned any guns, and it was an electoral black hole.

[The Straight Story]

7. What is the difference between a car and a station wagon?

They both could have the same engine, same number of wheels, one looks different than the other and is heavier. They both do the same thing though.

Assault weapons are just guns that look different than other ones. But they sound different and invoke bad images, and it makes people feel safer knowing that I don't own one - but I can own a gun that does the exact same thing.

It expired because people realized how stupid it was.

[Pavulon]

8. It was a vote killing joke that had zero impact

on violent crime. More people are stabbed to death than assault rifled to death. It is an Orwellian term used to describe a semi automatic rifle. You know what the scary one looks like. Here is one you will not see in crime. 2000 or so. Same thing. Detachable mag firing a high powered round.

[bossy22]

33. oooo Benelli R1

niiiiiiiice

[stray cat]

9. the GOP was in charge then - right?

[Parche]

11. Remember AK-47's dont kill people........people do?

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[bluestateguy]

12. Yes, that is actually what I believe

No sarcasm icon for me.

[paparush]

13. "AK47 when you absolutely, positively have to kill every last motherfcker in the room."

Samuel L. Jackson in "Jackie Brown"

[TheWraith]

90. Yeah, because movies are never wrong.

There's a big difference between an ACTUAL AK-47, which is a fully automatic weapon, and one of the civilian knockoffs which is an over-rated semi-auto.

[The Straight Story]

14. My dad's guns run around all by themselves daily shooting people

It takes a person to pull the trigger (thought I would mention that as there are a lot of people who don't know that).

[Occam Bandage]

15. I must have missed the story about the AK-47 that went on an unmanned rampage. nt

[The Straight Story]

18. only Asian ak-47's snap like that

:rofl:

[The Straight Story]

16. Oh, and remember - SUV's DO kill people. They pilot themselves ya know

Always love seeing news story about how someone was run over by an SUV. Bastards are in league with guns ya know.

What is even more sad is how people lap up stuff like that because they are too lazy to think.

[Pavulon]

17. Jeesus Christt, Mr Garrison..

did someone drop the weapon on the deck and it dump a mag into a crowded room. Product liability?

You guys are on an emotional rage devoid of any common sense.

[The Straight Story]

20. Indeed - demon possessed guns are rampant, we need a priest to exorcise them

People who use them are innocent I tell ya.

[rollingrock]

19. ak47 was designed to kill people

not for hunting rabbits.

[Pavulon]

21. And Zyklon b was designed to kill ants? Your point?

this person did not have an AK47 like you see in the movies and on tv.

[rollingrock]

23. The point is, civilians have no business owning them

ak47 is a military assault weapon, and no one should have access to them except the military.

[Kajsa]

26. Excellent point,Rollingrock.

Why are assault weapons needed,
outside of the military?

[Occam Bandage]

28. I can think of plenty of reasons semiautomatic rifles are useful.

A hunter can get off a second shot at a target he missed without having to work the bolt mechanism and re-aim at his target (which will probably have run off at this point). A target shooter can enjoy a more fluid, seamless target-shooting experience. A plinker can practice switching between targets quickly.

[benEzra]

63. The military DOESN'T USE "assault weapons."

"Assault weapons" are non-automatic civilian guns, not military automatic weapons.

You do know that possession of an M16 or an actual AK-47 in the United States outside of police/military duty is a 10-year Federal felony, outside of a small handful in the hands of wealthy, Federally approved collectors?

[The Straight Story]

27. Uh....yeah.

Caliber 7.62x39 mm
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt with 2 lugs
Overall length: 870 mm
Barrel length: 415 mm
Weight: 4,300 g with empty magazine, 4,876 g loaded
Magazine capacity 30 rds (40 rds box magazines and 75 rds drums)
Sighting range, m: 800
Cyclic rate of fire 600 rds/min
Practical rate of fire, single shots 90-100 rds/min; bursts 400 rds/min
Muzzle velocity: 780 m/s

Now explain to me how that is any different from other, non scary sounding and looking guns, that use the same caliber? Guns, and their names/looks, are just delivery vehicles for the ammo.

"Since approximately 1990, the 7.62x39mm cartridge has seen some use in hunting arms in the US for hunting game up to the size of whitetail deer, as it is approximately as powerful as the old .30-30 Winchester round, and has a similar ballistic profile"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62x39mm

And you only trust the military with them? Fine. I will use another gun that does the same thing, and you will feel safer I am sure.

[Pavulon]

29. That is basically the case. You have been bamboozled with orwellian language

used by the press. The weapon used was a semi-automatic rifle no different than a benelli rifle costing 1400 dollars. Except it is shittier and much less accurate.

AK47 is regulated by the NFA (1934) and is NEVER used in crimes. Not one case on the books of a legally owned AK machine gun being used in a crime.

Try harder.

[Statistical]

41. No military uses semi-auto AKs

Virtually no civilian owns a fully automatic AK.

Considering a semi-auto and select fire AK as the same thing would be like considering an M1 tank and a Volvo the same because they both use diesel.

[Occam Bandage]

24. So was the jet-propelled airplane. So what?

[Statistical]

43. Virtually all firearms were designed to kill people.

Even the typical "hunting rifle" that is the only gun antis love were based on WW I "Battle rifle". The cartridges used for large deer were the same cartridges chosen by military for killing humans.

By the time of Vietnam the battle rifle concept had fallen out of favor. The large (and lethal) cartridges were simply to heavy to support large number of rounds. The substantial recoil made second shot followup more difficult. Militaries transitioned to LIGHTER LESS POWERFUL rounds like the 5.56mm

The 5.56mm was chosen because it some uber human killing round. Far from it. It was chosen for 3 reasons:

1) it is LIGHTER so soldiers can carry more
2) recoil is more manageable allowing more accurate follow on fire.
3) the round is more likely to WOUND instead of kill which increases the logistic cost for the enemy.

[virginia mountainman]

48. So was your granpa's 30-30 Winchester..

Practical ALL, weapons today, are based on Military designs...

Whats your point?

[benEzra]

52. And possession of an actual AK-47 is a 10-year Federal felony in this country

outside of police/military, unless you obtain Federal authorization (BATFE Form 4). I believe there are probably fewer than 200 actual pre-1986 NFA Title 2 AK-47's in civilian hands in the United States.

Non-automatic civilian AK lookalikes, on the other hand, are exclusively civilian guns, not military weapons---unlike your grandfather's Remington Model 700 deer rifle, which is serving right now in Iraq as the USMC sniper rifle---and are very popular among U.S. shooters. I own a civilian AK myself (Romanian SAR-1, 2002 model), and if I ever take up hunting, it will be with that carbine.

[krispos42]

84. Okay, what makes it designed to kill people?

Ease of manufacture? Reliability? Ammunition? Protruding pistol grip? Ergonomics? Detachable magazine? Semi-automatic function?



Should guns be hard and expensive to make? Unreliable? Un-ergonomic? Difficult and painful to shoot?

[Midlodemocrat]

22. +1

[JI7]

25. nuclear weapons wont kill anyone, people will

we need the guns to arm ourselves against the govt and their tanks, nukes, cluster bombs etc.

[Pavulon]

30. So go for that repeal.

prohibition folks did it. What a success that was.

[JI7]

31. you compare prohibition to gun control ?

prohibition doesn't work anywhere around the world while gun control has shown to work. nations without easy or any access to guns don't have as many murders as in the united states where it's easy to gun.

[Pavulon]

32. Like the swiss? 39 murders, reasonable gun laws.

Sorry adopting draconian laws will do nothing here.

[bossy22]

42. new york it isnt easy to get a handgun

it requires a license and a 6 month wait...and look....

you will never make american gun laws like europes

[benEzra]

85. Do you have any idea how tightly actual AK-47's are controlled in this country?

Or how rare rifle homicides are compared to handgun homicides, knife homicides, club homicides, and even shoe/bare-hand homicides?

I own a non-automatic civilian AK. It has never killed anything and likely never will, unless I decide to take up deer hunting someday (I'm a nonhunter).

[aikoaiko]

34. Because it was useless and partially cost us congressional control for years.

And those same reasons will prevent it from being reinstated.

You know what politicians see when they read about all these people panic buying guns and ammo, they see motivated people who are willing to shell out big bucks to ensure their second amendment rights and will have no compunction at voting against a politician who votes for a AWB reauthorization.

[rrneck]

37. Ban all of them and confiscate all of the AK's in existence.

Just let me know before they do so I can buy stock in Remington Arms before they come out with a whole new line of walnut clad highly polished meticulously engraved semi-automatic 30.06's able to kill a cop half a mile away.

Or whatever else everybody decides to buy from them to replace the shit they take away.

[virginia mountainman]

46. Smith & Wesson are building AR15's now..

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=11101&categoryId=33803&top=Y

[dashrif]

51. Rimington too

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/Model_R-15_VTR.asp

[rrneck]

80. Yep. Poorly phrased post. I shoulda put the

sarcasm thingie in there.

Banning anything based on looks is a fools errand when looks can be changed so easily.

[rrneck]

82. Yep. Poorly phrased post there. I shoulda

put in the sarcasm thingie.

Even if they could get rid of all the "scary" rifles it wouldn't matter. I'd just like to know ahead of time if they pull the ban off so I will know where to invest when the market responds with some way to work around it. If scary becomes illegal, then pretty will be what they come up next because pretty will probably be legal. Even though they've been building pretty rifles for hundreds of years.

[benEzra]

66. Ummm, the Remington 7400 .30-06 has been on the market for decades?

Just let me know before they do so I can buy stock in Remington Arms before they come out with a whole new line of walnut clad highly polished meticulously engraved semi-automatic 30.06's able to kill a cop half a mile away.

Ummm, the Remington 7400 semiautomatic .30-06 has been on the market for decades?



Twice as powerful as a civilian AK lookalike, with at least twice the effective range and far greater penetration and lethality at any range.

Ban all of them and confiscate all of the AK's in existence.

Just like you banned and confiscated all the cannabis in existence? How's that working out?

No, I'll keep my civilian AK, thanks.

[rrneck]

77. Yeah, I used to have a 740 BDL about a thousand years ago.

I guess I shoulda put the sarcasm thingie in there.

I don't get how people keep trying to make a piece of technology go away as if somebody won't come up with something to replace it. The creativity of the marketplace and all that.

[geckosfeet]

38. To appease the a$$holes who have been going on shooting sprees the past month.

[bossy22]

40. hmmm

i didnt see 9mm pistols, double barreled shotguns, and .45 pistols in the AWB of 94

if the AWB was in place.....THESE EVENTS WOULD STILL HAPPEN

[geckosfeet]

65. Jus keep looking the other way. It will all work out.

[bossy22]

39. because it failed to do what it was truly intended to do

the AWB of 94 was designed to redefine gun ownership in america. It was an attempt to steer it away from protection/self-defense/military style to sporting....sort of how most western european countries view gun ownership (only gun ownership for sport is allowed).

All in all it did just the opposite....instead of diminishing gun ownership for defensive purposes it actually gave it more power. It is said the gun control pushed too much and the gun ownership proponents fought back harder. Coupled with the end of the crack cocaine epidemic (which lead to a major decrease in violent crime) and falling public support for more gun control (back in the early 1990's the percentage was about 75% supporting, now its about somewhere in the 55-45% range) there wasnt much public push for it.

ultimately the AWB was an experiment- it failed- it didnt decrease crime and only pissed off a good segment of the population

[virginia mountainman]

45. Mainly because..

The voter backlash replaced a large number of the ban's supporters, with people who swore to kill the law.

The lesson we should take from this is....

Don't pass legislation that pisses off, and mobilizes huge numbers of voters, or you will soon find yourself unemployed.

Bill Clinton even acknowledged this fact...In his 1995 State of the Union Address.

I don't want to destroy the good atmosphere in the room or in the country tonight, but I have to mention one issue that divided this body greatly last year. The last Congress also passed the Brady Bill and, in the crime bill, the ban on 19 assault weapons. I don't think it's a secret to anybody in this room that several members of the last Congress who voted for that aren't here tonight because they voted for it. And I know, therefore, that some of you who are here because they voted for it are under enormous pressure to repeal it.

http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/P/bc42/speeches/sud95wjc.htm

Do some of you want to "destroy the good atmosphere" and get us thrown out in the streets next election cycle?? Those that forget history, are DOOMED....To repeat it.

[baldguy]

47. Pressure from the gun worshipers' lobby.

[virginia mountainman]

50. Hey LOOK!!

We have one of Sara Brady's Minnions amongst us in here...

[baldguy]

53. No, just people who think protecting innocent human life is more important than a dangerous hobby.

And there are only two Ns in "minions"

[benEzra]

55. So, how do you feel about alcohol prohibition?

100,000 deaths a year from alcohol, per the CDC (which works out to 8,333 last month). No, I don't support banning alcohol, either.

FWIW, the right to own and responsibly use firearms is not about "hobby," but about a fundamental civil liberty equal to that of speech, press, assembly, and freedom from warrantless search and seizure. Shooting is a fine hobby, but is not protected for its hobby aspects.

[baldguy]

56. Apples & oranges

Alcohol isn't designed for the sole purpose of killing.

[bossy22]

60. alcohol's sole purpose

is to inhibit bodily functions and decision making

is that beneficial to society?

[benEzra]

78. Neither are the non-automatic CIVILIAN guns

which we are discussing. You are talking about the most popular civilian target rifles in America, among other things.

All rifles combined account for fewer than 500 murders a year, out of ~14,000. Civilian rifles are not a crime problem in this country and never have been, regardless of how the handgrip is shaped or whether or not the magazine sticks out.

[baldguy]

87. ALL guns are designed to kill.

If you're not willing to control ALL guns, you're not even in the ballpark.

[benEzra]

89. 80 million voters lawfully own in excess of 0.3 BILLION guns in this country.

We'll keep them, thanks.

There is certainly common ground to be found on removing guns from the hands of criminals and the mentally incompetent, and (more broadly) addressing the socioeconomic issues that put us here on the cusp of a second Great Depression to start with. No one wants to see guns misused, including me.

But new restrictions designed to sharply reduce the number of lawful gun owners, using criminal violence as the excuse? No. Further encroachment on the subset of guns we are still allowed to own? No. Wrong tree to bark up. Gun owners have surrendered rights with almost nothing in return since the 1930's, and we will keep the rights we have left.

[virginia mountainman]

57. If your serious about protecting life,

Than you should be pressing to outlaw cars...

They kill far more than guns do...Matter of fact, I saw a body under a sheet, on the interstate just a few hours ago.

[baldguy]

59. Apples & oranges

Cars aren't designed for the sole purpose of killing, either.

[benEzra]

49. Because "assault weapon" is scare-speak for the most popular civilian rifles in America

and Congresspeople like their jobs.

If you're under the impression that "assault weapons" are military infantry rifles like M16's and actual AK-47's, those are tightly controlled under the Title 2/Class III provisions of the National Firearms Act of 1934 as amended by the Hughes Amendment of 1986, and have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with "assault weapons."

[baldguy]

54. Having an assault weapon is a fashion statement.

Gun worshipers think that if they have a bigger gun, their buddies with think they have a bigger penis.

Unfortunately, that's not the case.

[bossy22]

58. thick skull you have

its not a fashion statement, its matter of taste. Some guys (like me) like military looking guns...i dont own them to show them off or make my penis feel bigger, i own them because i like the way they look.

and unfortunately you cant smack sense into people over the web

[baldguy]

61. You forgot the :sarcasm: tag.

:rofl:

[benEzra]

62. Snort!! You do know that "assault weapons" are the SMALLEST caliber rifles, right?

An AR-15 (the most popular centerfire target rifle in the United States, BTW) is a centerfire .22, dude. I suspect you know as little about guns themselves as you do about their owners? If you want to project "large caliber," get a 12-gauge shotgun (.729 caliber), not a little .223 or a slow .30.

My wife owns an SKS. Do you think she owns it because it makes people think she has a penis, or do you think she might possibly own it because, you know, she enjoys shooting it?

Small-caliber rifles with modern styling (your "assault weapon" scare-meme) are the most popular centerfire rifles in America not because they are "badass", but because they offer a very good mix of ergonomics, accuracy, reliability, and capacity.

[baldguy]

64. But it sure LOOKS like a big penis, right?

[bossy22]

67. someone been drinking too much

al-kee-hol lately

[baldguy]

68. And others have been abdicating their responsibility.

Gun enthusiasts should work to make firearms safer, not less so. Instead, the safety advocates are drowned out & overwhelmed by the gun worshiper majority who get a sexual charge out of the smell of cordite. Their "right" to own a gun without restrictions is more important than any human life.

I don't buy it.

[bossy22]

69. GET OVER THE SEXUAL STUFF

there is nothing sexual about it....unless you are sick in the head

Firearms are as safe as their owner

[baldguy]

72. You don't trust your neighbors to vote for rational gun control laws

But you trust them with guns.

That make sense.

:eyes:

[bossy22]

74. i trust them to be able to make

rational decisions when given all the information. But i dont trust that they have been given all the information


and anyway gun control isnt based soley on voters...it also has to be constitutional

[benEzra]

75. Guns today ARE safer.

Gun enthusiasts should work to make firearms safer, not less so.

Guns today ARE safer. In case you didn't notice, last year was one of the safest years in decades, fewer police officers were killed with guns than any year since 1961, and gun accidents were at all time lows. That doesn't exactly pump up the hysteria, though.

I expect that the numbers will be higher this year, due to the tanking economy, which is partly the responsibility of the idiots who thought that silly restrictions on rifle handgrip shape was worth throwing away the Senate and House of Representatives in 1994.

Instead, the safety advocates are drowned out & overwhelmed by the gun worshiper majority who get a sexual charge out of the smell of cordite.

I think somebody "gets a sexual charge" out of throwing around ridiculous ad hominems. Shooting is zen, not Rambo, and certainly not sexual. (I don't think I'd want to be around anybody who thought that shooting was a sexual act.)

Their "right" to own a gun without restrictions is more important than any human life.

Ummm, where do you see anybody arguing for gun ownership "without restrictions"?

I don't see ANYONE trying to repeal the National Firearms Act, the Gun Control Act, the National Instant Check System, the armor-piercing bullet ban of 1986, or otherwise legalize now-prohibited persons (felons and the mentally incompetent) to own so much as a single-shot shotgun.

What I see are gun owners opposing stupid and pointless restrictions on the most popular civilian target rifles and defensive carbines in America, when only 3% of U.S. murders involve ANY type of rifle.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

70. Another gun grabber infatuated with penises.

[benEzra]

71. Only to someone who knows little enough about either guns or penises...

But it sure LOOKS like a big penis, right?

Only to someone who knows little enough about either guns or penises to think that an electric Airsoft BB gun looks like a penis.

Here are the stats on your "penis lookalike", BTW:

http://www.filairsoft.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41158

ICS M4A1l
*450 rounds magazine (2pcs)
*Metal Body with Colt markings
*Power: 420FPS
*Turbo 3000 motor
*Without battery and Charger
PRICE: P13K

That's an Airsoft military M4A1 lookalike, BTW. You do know that actual M4A1's are restricted to POLICE/MILITARY ONLY in the USA, and that possession of an actual M4A1, or any post-1986 gun that works like one, is a 10-year Federal felony outside of police/military/government duty?

A non-automatic civilian AR-15, on the other hand, is not a penis substitute; it is the most popular centerfire target rifle in America, because of its accuracy, excellent ergonomics, and light recoil.





The top one is configured for F-class long range precision competition (300 to 1200 yards), and the bottom one for Camp Perry style competition (limited to iron sights only).

And yes, shooters are aware of its small caliber. The competitive AR-15 isn't called the "mouse that roared" for nothing; it DOMINATES most centerfire target shooting in this country (both competitive and recreational), and is even making inroads in F-class benchrest.

[baldguy]

73. Its the LOOK of the thing that matters, remember?

Having an assault weapon is a FASHION statement.

[benEzra]

76. LOL, are you being serious? Or are you spoofing the pro-ban arguments?

She's a competitive shooter in sanctioned competition. You honestly think she's shooting that AR-15 because she thinks it looks like a penis?

Clue: She's shooting to WIN. And that AR-15 will outshoot almost any bolt-action short of an all-out benchrest gun.

[slackmaster]

79. Proponents of the AWB had ten full years to make a case for renewing it

They came up empty-handed in September 2004. It's that simple.

[krispos42]

81. Becauser it was the firearm equivilant...

...of saying that a ban on 22" spinners, ultra-low-profile tires, chrome-tipped exhaust pipes, painted flames, and rear spoilers was an "auto safety bill".



The definition of "assault weapon" was based on a list of arbitrary features, of which more than three turned your rifle, shotgun, or pistol into an "assault weapon".



Which one of these semi-automatic rifles fed from a detachable magazine and chambered in .223 Remington is an "assault weapon"?

A.





B.




C.






Well, here's the surprise... they are all the same rifle.

Exact same rifle, exact same serial number. Amazing how a few turns with a box-end wrench can turn you into a felon... or make you into a law-abiding citizen.










"C" is an "assault weapon" under the original 1993 federal definition: it is a semiautomatic rifle with a detachable magazine, protruding pistol grip, AND a folding stock.

"B is an "assault weapon" under current California law. It has a detachable magazine AND a protruding pistol grip.

"A" would be considered an "assault weapon" under proposed federal legislation. It's a semiautomatic rifle of military decent.





"Assault weapon" is an arbitrary, perjorative term deliberately chosen to be confused with the military term "assault rifle". It plays on fear. And since the entire "ban-assault-weapons" movement seems to be playing up a lot of fear-inducing current events I'm looking at them with the same eye I used towards other, recent cases of fear-mongering for political action.

[jmg257]

86. Studies showed it had no significant effect on its intended goals, and opinions

on its worthiness changed.