Street Racing Nut's Son Jailed for Murder

[slackmaster]

Cars don't kill people, until car nuts kill people with them. Then they "just go off."

A Spring Valley man whose father was an advocate for legal street racing was ordered to stand trial on a murder charge stemming from what prosecutors contend was an illegal street race.

Lawton Ferreira II, 18, is accused of racing his pickup against a car in November, then slamming into a car driven by Feli Dolor, 20, of Chula Vista. Ferreira is charged with second-degree murder and gross vehicular manslaughter while under the influence of drugs....

<snip>

...The theory underlying the murder charge is that Ferreira knew that street racing was dangerous, yet disregarded that and raced anyway. Having such knowledge, yet not heeding it, is one definition of malice – a crucial element in proving a murder case.

The same theory was used in the prosecution of two other street racers, George Waller Jr. and Lawrence Calhoun by Deputy District Attorney Blaine Bowman. It was believed to be the first time in state history that murder charges were brought against street racers....

Full copyrighted article at http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/tue/metro/news_7m29race.html

slackmaster comments: This is a step in the right direction. Deliberate abuse or gross negligence in handling any dangerous object that results in injury or death to innocents should be treated no differently than criminal misuse of an object that was designed with the intent to be useful as a weapon. The result is often the same: Death.

[Fovea]

1. after a Missouri man with 14 suspensions killed a Missouri

Ultra Marathon cyclist named Mike Brady two years ago, the St. Louis County prosecutor said that he now knew that to kill someone with impunity in the state of Missouri, all you needed was a car.

Two years later, this proves true.

[kubi]

2. There are all kind's of nuts

Gun nuts can only dream about killing as many people as car nuts have.

[iverglas]

3. oh really, o'...

"Gun nuts can only dream about killing as many people as car nuts have."

Please provide the facts that support your contention that people driving cars with malice (either intending the lethal consequences of their actions, or acting with full knowledge of the potentially lethal consequences of their action) have killed more people than people using firearms with similar mens rea (the mental element of a criminal offence).

Oh, are you going to say that this is not what you were claiming?

Well then, I give up. What was your point?

.

[kubi]

4. Check out the stats on the World Health Org page

Last time I checked it was about a year ago on a thread on Timezone, yes I admit it, I'am also a watch nut. Average deaths world wide to motor vehicle accidents is 1.1 million.

[iverglas]

5. you don't even try, do you?

"Average deaths world wide to motor vehicle accidents is 1.1 million."

Who was talking about MOTOR VEHICLE ACCIDENTS? This thread is about HOMICIDE BY MOTOR VEHICLE. Did you somehow manage to miss that?

So, as I already asked you: WHAT WAS YOUR POINT?

[kubi]

7. The point was I was being a smart ass

[dfong63]

9. i'll say it

these two statements are very different.

what he said: Gun nuts can only dream about killing as many people as car nuts have.

what you said: Please provide the facts that support your contention that people driving cars with malice (either intending the lethal consequences of their actions, or acting with full knowledge of the potentially lethal consequences of their action) have killed more people than people using firearms with similar mens rea (the mental element of a criminal offence).

your trying to equate them, is an evasion worthy of Ari Fleischer.

what he said, is a statement about "nuts", aka "aficionados". what you said, is a statement about people who act with malice. not even close.

[iverglas]

12. trying but failing

I assume you missed the part where I said:

"Oh, are you going to say that this is not
what you were claiming?
Well then, I give up. What was your point?"

Read much?

Alternatives, you see; I offered them. I drew no conclusion at all. The alternatives were and still are:

(a) kubi was intentionally and falsely equating, by comparing, all deaths by motor vehicle with intentional deaths by firearm

OR

(b) kubi was talking about something that had nothing to do with the topic of the thread.


If (a), then it was not *I* who was evading or deceiving.

If (b), then I still ask why kubi was offering this tidbit of irrelevant information in this thread ... if not for the purpose of evading or deceiving.


"what he said, is a statement about 'nuts',
aka 'aficionados'. what you said, is a statement
about people who act with malice. not even close."

WHAT THE THREAD WAS ABOUT was people who act with malice.

Me, I was just ASSUMING THAT KUBI WAS SPEAKING TO THE TOPIC OF THE THREAD.

Why on earth would I assume that kubi had gone off on some irrelevant tangent for no reason at all???


So I asked. I asked whether kubi was

(a) deceitfully attempting to create an impression that thing "X" (all deaths by motor vehicle, most of which are "accidents") is equivalent to thing "Y" (homicide by motor vehicle -- the topic of the thread) -- when they are different,

OR

(b) talking random nonsense ... and why.


I still haven't had an answer, have I then?

.

[slackmaster]

11. 10 points to Iverglas for pointing to mens rea

Some unaccounted for portion of motor vehicle "accident" deaths should be counted as homicides. Truly accidental deaths in motor vehicle incidents occur in cases of mechanical failure, unforeseen road conditions, "acts of God" etc, but these are less common than fatalities caused by drunk, aggressive, distracted, tired, or otherwise negligent drivers.

You want numbers? Let's start with the drunks. I submit that every person who drives drunk knows damn well the potential consequences of his or her actions.

http://www.freewaywatch.org/traffic_fatalities_vs_alcohol_related_fatalities.html

Because people consider automobiles a necessary evil in modern life there is a tendency to dismiss a lot of avoidable injuries and deaths as "accidents" even in cases where a drunk driver is charged with manslaughter, so statistics commonly called accidents belie the real danger of our obsession with cars. Precedent is being set in California for classifying street racing fatalities as murder, and that is a step in the right direction.

[iverglas]

13. homicide maybe,

Murder not likely. Murder does require a particular specific intent; while I'm not familiar with the niceties of the various US states' rules on that, and much as I despise street racers, I'm not sure that I'd see that requirement being met in the case cited. Manslaughter, quite undoubtedly.

Oh, heck, I might be wrong on that even when it comes to Canadian law, now that I think.

Canadian law says -- and all those "means to (do something)" are the "intent" requirements:

Murder, Manslaughter and Infanticide

Murder

229. Culpable homicide is murder

(a) where the person who causes the death of a human being

(i) means to cause his death, or

(ii) means to cause him bodily harm that he knows is likely to cause his death, and is reckless whether death ensues or not;

(b) where a person, meaning to cause death to a human being or meaning to cause him bodily harm that he knows is likely to cause his death, and being reckless whether death ensues or not, by accident or mistake causes death to another human being, notwithstanding that he does not mean to cause death or bodily harm to that human being; or

*(c)* where a person, for an unlawful object, does anything that he knows or ought to know is likely to cause death, and thereby causes death to a human being, notwithstanding that he desires to effect his object without causing death or bodily harm to any human being.

It's that last bit that would potentially apply. Like, killing someone by burning down a building without bothering to find out whether anyone was in it. I wasn't thinking straight, was I? If drag racing on the street is illegal, then killing someone while driving on the street as participation in an illegal drag race would seem to qualify as murder. ;)

Now ... can I see this applying to someone who illegally lends a firearm to someone else who uses it to kill someone, or illegally fails to take proper precautions to prevent a firearm from being stolen by someone who kills someone, or illegally carries a firearm around in public and has it taken from him/her and used to kill someone ...? Hmm.

.

[kubi]

6. Here is a decent page

http://www.i-connect.ch/grsp/grspdev/problem.htm

[MrBenchley]

8. That still dodges the question

about motor vehicle homicides...

[kubi]

10. Maybe the first line through me

Cars don't kill people, until car nuts kill people with them. Then they "just go off." Thought it was poking fun at the people who like to call others nuts. You came to mind come to think of it.

[MrBenchley]

14. Gee

DO call us the next time your car goes off.