"L.A. council tightens gun, ammunition laws" and of course criminals will obey the new law.

[jody]

L.A. council tightens gun, ammunition laws

The Los Angeles City Council approved a package of gun control laws Wednesday, placing new requirements on ammunition sellers and banning the sale of military-style ammunition in the hopes of further reducing the city's gun and gang violence.

The measures ban the sale of .50-caliber ammunition, capable of penetrating a car's engine, and would require the city's ammunition vendors to be licensed, to sell ammunition face-to-face instead of over the Internet and require gun dealers to report a full accounting of their inventory twice a year to the Police Department.

* * * * * * * * * * *

"We use this to stop a vehicle," Bratton said, holding up a .50-caliber bullet longer and thicker than a finger. "Unless you are out trying to kill Godzilla, and I think the last time we saw Godzilla was in the 1950s, there is no need for this type of weapon" unless it is in the hands of the military or law enforcement, he said.

* * * * * * * * * * *

"Part of what we're doing here is leading the way," Villaraigosa said, stating that the measures are another tool to fight gun violence and that he hoped other cities and President-elect Barack Obama's administration would follow suit. "This is the most far-reaching effort of any big city in the country. . . . This isn't about symbolism; it's about results."

The council approved the measures unanimously.

[slackmaster]

1. It will probably be thrown out by the courts, just like San Francisco's attempted gun bans

Cities can't just do whatever they want in California. The state regulates firearms and ammunition.

[spin]

2. Wow, another feel good law!

I wonder how well these new requirements will work to reduce gun violence.

It's far better to target criminal gangs and illegal guns carried on the street, but that costs money and takes time. It's far easier to pass laws which make it look like the politicians are involved in solving the problem. Any new requirements that limit the sale of ammo in Los Angeles can easily be bypassed b buying the ammo elsewhere. Of course, when that happens, the politicians can claim that if only other cities would adopt their enlightened views, gun crime would be reduced. While there may be some truth in this, it's just not going to happen. Lawsuits will be filed and LA will lose in court.

But the citizens will feel the politicians are trying so they will reelect them. To the politicians that's the most important thing.

[iverglas]

3. of course criminals won't obey it

Why, they'll open up storefront ammunition shops and sell ammunition contrary to the law ...

[razors edge]

4. How many times

since the 1950s have the police or military required a 50 caliber to be used in the performance of their jobs in the LA jurisdiction?

If the answer is none, then outlawing them for citizens and keeping them for the authorities just proves the issue is not who actually "need(s)" a 50 caliber.

Why don't they just come out and say it, they want to take your rights away from you and hoard power for themselves. I can at least respect a truthful tyrant for being truthful, if nothing else.

[AtheistCrusader]

12. I wouldn't be surprised

if they either had them, or wished they had them in the SWAT teams, when that nutbag went on a rampage with a couple rifles and a bulldozer, after welding protective plates around the cab.

But for the vast majority of .50 caliber rifle owners, these weapons are not used for hunting even. Mostly competitive shooting.


Out of curiousity, why would this matter, aren't .50 caliber rifles illegal for manufacture or sale in the State of California anyway?

[razors edge]

13. My limited experience with the 50

is shooting and cleaning in the Marines, and a couple private shoots making old washing machines dance.

One thing I can say for sure, if I were on a swat team I wouldn't trade my 300 Remington Ultra Mag for a 50. My Ultra is 9 pounds of accurate hard hitting precision and my hand loads give a lot of options in range and penetrability . Most police units use the model 700 ultra in the 300 caliber, some go for the 338.

Weighing in at better than 30 pounds, and costing more than $5000.00, the 50 isn't a good tactical response weapon for the police, or a good choice for criminals ripping off the 7-11.

I don't know about California outlawing the 50, but even here in Ohio it is frowned upon by authorities.

The 50 has some good practical uses IMHO. It lets the people know that they are trusted to own a strong weapon and reinforces the idea that we live in the "land of the free" (TM all rights reserved) and if you have ten grand in disposable income, a desire to stand against the encroachment of special interests, you too can stand in the crossfire of rights being destroyed from the left and the right.

I don't see that much difference between the owners of guns who are subjected to legislative discrimination and the 18,000 gay marriages in California who are now wondering about their legal status.

If you don't know your rights, you don't have any. If you need someone to tell you your rights, you don't deserve any. After all, a right that someone can take away was never a right to begin with, it was a privilege.

[iverglas]

24. so ... "practical uses" ...

The 50 has some good practical uses IMHO. It lets the people know that they are trusted to own a strong weapon and reinforces the idea that we live in the "land of the free" (TM all rights reserved) and if you have ten grand in disposable income, a desire to stand against the encroachment of special interests, you too can stand in the crossfire of rights being destroyed from the left and the right.

So do you eat that, wear it, burn it for fuel or drive it to work?

I don't see that much difference between the owners of guns who are subjected to legislative discrimination and the 18,000 gay marriages in California who are now wondering about their legal status.

You know, I almost believe that.

I could almost bring myself to believe that someone is so intent on gazing at his/her own navel that s/he really believes that being prevented from owning some popgun or other is the same as being prevented from marrying on the same basis as other members of one's society are entitled to do because of an inherent personal characteristic, and denied all the social and economic and legal status and rights and duties that come with marriage that are all available to other members of one's society at the drop of a hat no questions ask.

Yes, I could almost believe that.

[villager]

5. Yeah, why should our ammunition vendors have to be fucking *licensed*?

I'm sure L.A.'s gangs are thanking you for your support!

[spin]

6. Especially since any person with half a brain...

can load his own ammo. It's fairly cheap and very easy.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

Those LA gangs sure do love those .50 cals.

[villager]

8. not that we, you know, have to stay on topic or anything...

n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

9. From the OP, The measures ban the sale of .50-caliber ammunition

[villager]

10. From me, the comment about licensure

But I suppose the NRA commands you to be against that, too?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

15. Not a member of the NRA, I've never heard of them commanding anything though.

[benEzra]

17. The NRA has a secret tower on their rooftop that beams mind-control rays to susceptible people.

Since that's the only possible reason that anyone would ever disagree with the repubs who run the Brady Campaign, and with those holdouts at the DLC who still fight to implement BC-written legislation.

Everyone who supports new gun bans, on the other hand, is rational, reasonable, and knowledgeable about the issue, and is in no way influenced by Brady scaremongering about .50 caliber rifles, rifles with protruding handgrips, or non-LEO's authorized by the state to carry handguns.

:eyes:

[iverglas]

25. heh

good luck with that. ;)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

7. Those LA gangs sure do love those .50 cals.

[hendo]

16. didn't you know

its hella easy to hige a .50 cal rifle in a puffy coat yo. Pull that sh*t out and aint nobody gonna mess wit you. Bust sum caps with a fast draw, and take out all those cops wit that bada** rifle.
:sarcasm:

However, there's always the more concealable Desert Eagle .50. However, that is way too expensive for some common street thug.

[Redneck Socialist]

11. Lies, all lies...

Godzilla has been seen as recently as 2004...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godzilla_(film_series)#Millennium_series_.281999.E2.80.932004.29


Personally, if I was hunting Godzilla I'd want something a little more hefty than a fifty cal.

[X_Digger]

14. Errr.. military-style ammunition?

"military-style ammunition"? Does that mean ammunition used by the military somewhere? They've used (or are using) almost every caliber out there at some point, pistol and rifle. Even the lowly 22lr round is used in the M261 training kit for the AR-15.

California banned .50-caliber guns in 2005.

[JonQ]

18. Interesting

couldn't that be expanded to include any ammo used in any military, at any point in time? Shotguns are used in the military, as are pistols. So that leaves what exactly?

[jody]

19. You're kidding! Don't you realize that is "commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment

rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals."

[JonQ]

21. Apparently it protects our right to bear arms

just not load them, leaving them as fairly clumsy and awkward clubs. That's probably what the founders wanted anyway.

[JonQ]

20. I'm guessing that no one on the LA city council

bothered to find any relevant statistics on the subject (like what % of gang murders were carried out with a .50 cal bullet). Instead they listened to some hysterical mothers and gun-grabbers that insisted they "think of the children".

Sad. Common sense should play some role in making new laws.

[gorfle]

22. A classic case of incrementalism

The measures ban the sale of .50-caliber ammunition, capable of penetrating a car's engine, and would require the city's ammunition vendors to be licensed, to sell ammunition face-to-face instead of over the Internet and require gun dealers to report a full accounting of their inventory twice a year to the Police Department.

* * * * * * * * * * *

"We use this to stop a vehicle," Bratton said, holding up a .50-caliber bullet longer and thicker than a finger. "Unless you are out trying to kill Godzilla, and I think the last time we saw Godzilla was in the 1950s, there is no need for this type of weapon" unless it is in the hands of the military or law enforcement, he said.

I am assuming here that since they are talking about "military-style" ammunition they are talking about .50 caliber BMG (Browning Machine Gun) ammuntion, not .50 caliber pistol ammunition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rifle_cartridge_comparison.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CartridgeComparison.jpg

The simple fact of the matter is, crimes are hardly ever committed using .50 caliber rifles. They are large, heavy, and extremely expensive, starting at around $5000.

This is a classic example of incremental firearm restrictions being passed off as "reasonable" gun control. Such ammunition and weapons are easy targets for gun control, since there are so few in circulation even for legitimate purposes. It is thus a simple manner to demonize it ("we use this to stop a vehicle") as some super-weapon and ban it in the name of reducing crime as you will gain tons of support from the ignorant and have few who will oppose it.

I'd love to see data on the number of crimes that have been committed using the .50BMG round in Los Angeles since 1910 when the round was invented.

[benEzra]

27. .30-06 ammunition is capable of penetrating a car engine block, too...

is no less "military" than .50 BMG, and was originally designed to kill human beings at extreme range (up to 1000 yards). Should it be banned, too?

.30-06 Springfield has certainly been involved in far more murders than .50 BMG (since .50 BMG rifles have been used in exactly zero murders in the United States).

[lotus]

23. Criminals love 200lb .50BMG guns

I was gawking at a 50BMG gun a few months ago in a store (first time I had ever seen one up close). The store owner was explaining to me that it weighted 200lbs, which of course explained why it was on some kind of wheeled mount. I laughed at the thought of a gang banger actually trying a drive-by with one of those. In fact, I sort of almost hope one of them is dumb enough to try it... I don't think he'll have any hearing left after firing one of those from within an enclosed car! Especially with that massive compensator on it (sends much of the sound back at you making it louder). This thing is clearly only for the gun enthusiast (with LOTS of extra money to spend.... which leaves me out).

Incrementalism indeed.

[benEzra]

26. This IS the same city that makes it a crime to ride an unlicensed *bicycle*...

and only sells bicycle licenses in person, on Tuesdays and Thursdays, at two seriously understaffed locations.

http://www.laweekly.com/2008-12-18/columns/quot-roadblock-quot-and-other-cyclists-revolt-at-lapd-ticketing-for-bike-riding-without-a-license/

(O)nly two stations in the entire city are authorized to sell bike licenses (Central Station, near Skid Row, and the Department of Public Safety, near USC), and only on certain days (Tuesday and Thursday), and only at certain times (10 a.m. to 8 p.m.). Bike licenses are not available online (as one bike blogger pointed out, even bingo halls can be licensed on the Internet), and many of the officers at the eligible stations are “reluctant to find the bike-license box” and “don’t even know what’s going on.”

Although I dare say bicycles have been involved in considerably more L.A. murders and accidental deaths than .50 BMG target rifles have (the latter number would be, ah, zero).