Chicago is the homicide capital of the nation

[Indy Lurker]

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/1246329,daley-jennifer-hudson-murders-reaction-102808.article


Mayor Daley said today he’s “not proud” of the fact that Chicago is the homicide capital of the nation, but he said the slayings of Jennifer Hudson’s mother, brother and 7-year-old nephew could not have been prevented.


“If your child has a gun in the home or you have a gun in the home, you’d better get rid of it. Because, more likely , that gun is gonna be used against the family or against a child’s best friend.” - Mayor Daley

The Chicago Sun-Times reported last week that Chicago is outpacing New York and Los Angeles in 2008 murders, even though the population here is much lower. Chicago had 426 murders through last Tuesday, compared to 417 in New York and 302 in Los Angeles.


********************************************************


Chicago is the only major US city with a handgun ban.

Daley is of course wrong on both counts. The murders could have been prevented if the shooter was sent back to jail.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iIqSbmp7cCrnSvw1FIMxIvjQa8AQD9443FL00

CHICAGO (AP) — Busted for what police said was a rock of cocaine on the driver's seat of his car, William Balfour could have been spending the past few months behind bars for a parole violation.

The 27-year-old felon was instead allowed to remain free and is now considered a suspect in the deaths of Oscar-winner Jennifer Hudson's mother, brother and 7-year-old nephew.


And if Daley though having guns around was so bad, he would get rid of his armed security detail.

[Taverner]

1. A great statistic to keep for future use

Especially when people confuse "taking away guns" with "reducing crime"

[Codename46]

2. I raged so hard

“If your child has a gun in the home or you have a gun in the home, you’d better get rid of it. Because, more likely , that gun is gonna be used against the family or against a child’s best friend.” - Mayor Daley

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFff.............

[jeepnstein]

15. That was no child.

The shooter wasn't a child. He was a violent criminal with a record and under court supervision. They had recently popped him in the possession of a weapon but didn't revoke him. If you're on parole and you get caught with a weapon in Chicago that is illegal you don't get sent to jail? There's your problem right there.

Don't lay that kind of brutality at the feet on honest citizens and tell them it's their fault because they decide to go armed.

[JonQ]

3. Clearly the solution is

to ban guns even more! Show those future murderers that owning a gun is a serious crime. That'll stop 'em.

[gorfle]

4. Typical politician.

He tries to deflect the blame of failing to keep a criminal off the street onto people who keep firearms in their homes.

What does the lawful possession of firearms in the home have to do with the Hudson case at all?!?!?

[spin]

5. It looks like Chicago might actually try something new...

At the city council’s budget committee hearing October 24, police Superintendent Jody Weis told aldermen that he was setting up what he called the Mobile Strike Force to attack gangs all over the city.

The unit, which will be comprised of roughly 150 veteran officers and divided into about a dozen teams, will “disrupt gang crimes through physical arrests, search warrants and gun seizures,” Weis said. He told aldermen that there were 75 identified gangs operating in the city and 75,000 gang members.

“The gang culture continues to be the driving force behind the vast majority of violence with more than half the murders committed by gangs,” Weis said.
http://www.chicagodefender.com/article-2291-hudson-homicides-put.html

Obviously taking guns away from honest citizens has failed again. Time to stop avoiding the issue and going after the core of the problem...the criminals and the criminal gangs.



Honest responsible citizens = little or no crime

Honest responsible citizens with firearms = little or no crime



Criminals = crimes

Criminals with firearms = very violent crimes

Criminal gangs with firearms = very violent crime and large homicide rate



Disarm honest responsible citizens = no effect on crime



Disarm criminals = significant decrease in violent crime

Disarm criminal gangs = significant drop in violent crime and homicide rate


True gun control = taking illegal firearms from criminals

[jody]

6. Chicago's homicide rate over 15/100k, D.C.'s over 29/100k. n/t

[Indy Lurker]

7. Yes but in shear numbers Chicago has the most homcides at 426 n/t

[Indy Lurker]

8. K76904 - BALFOUR, WILLIAM

Went to prison for attempted murder.


http://www.idoc.state.il.us/subsections/search/showfront.asp?idoc=K76904

[spin]

9. Let's compare the murder rate of the top five cities in the U.S.

Data Source:
2003 FBI Report of Offenses Known to Law Enforcement:
note: info summarized from data at http://www.cityrating.com/

Murders

New York 597
Los Angeles 515
Chicago 598
Houston 278
Philadelphia 348

Of these cities New York, Los Angeles, Chicago and Philadelphia have more restrictive laws than Houston Texas. Here's one story from Houston:

(3/14/07 - KTRK/HOUSTON) - A father grabbed a gun and opened fire when he heard someone break into his home in northwest Harris County last night. The man’s wife and children ducked for cover in the middle of the shootout.

The man who broke in was armed, but what he may not have expected was for the homeowner to be armed as well. Multiple shots were exchanged between the two men and the homeowner shot and killed the intruder.

“At this point, we are not looking at any charges,” said Sgt. R. Nelson with the Houston Police Department.
http://lonestartimes.com/2007/03/14/houston-gun-control/

In Chicago, handguns are banned with some exceptions:

It has been illegal since 1983 for even the most law-abiding Chicago residents to own handguns; only guns owned before the ban was passed can be registered, and they must be re-registered every two years. Possession of an unregistered handgun carries a penalty of less than a year in prison or a $500 fine.
http://www.reason.com/news/show/29498.html



Now to be fair there may be many reasons for the difference in the murder rate between different cities. However, it is interesting that the city with the lowest murder rate was the city with the the least restrictive gun laws.

So I'll issue a challenge to the anti-gun advocates who post in the Gungeon. Explain how Houston lower murder rate isn't the result of less restrictive firearm laws.

[bossy22]

11. i dont know about philly

philly's laws are just the same as their state wide laws- which last time i checked were very similar to Texas's laws in general

[spin]

13. The reason I said Philly has more restrictive gun laws...

than Houston is the attitude of the city government toward gun control.

Two City Council members appealed to the state Supreme Court yesterday in their case against the state legislature to allow Philadelphia to pass and enforce its own gun laws.

Darrell L. Clarke and Donna Reed Miller asked the court to reconsider its landmark 1996 ruling, which appeared to leave local municipalities no leeway to regulate guns. Only the state had that power, the court ruled then.
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/20081029_Phila__gun-law_case_appealed_to_high_court.html

Perhaps I was unfair. But it could be pointed out the 2003 FBI Report showed Philadelphia had a lower number of murders than Ned York, Los Angeles or Chicago which have more strict gun control.

Again, it is hard to say that cities with restrictive gun laws have lower homicide rates than cities with less restrictive gun laws. Too many other factors contribute to the problem. However if draconian gun laws were the solution to homicide rates, Chicago should have one of lowest rates in the country.

[russ1943]

14. Check your figures.

Your linked source actually does provide “murder rates” but you and others recently here in the dungeon seem to be fixated on the number of murders while referencing;

“9. Let's compare the murder rate of the top five cities in the U.S.”,

the more appropriate “murder rate”.
The FBI’s UCR http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm and even Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate has some 2007 figures available.

The city of Chicago is still the nations third largest in population but its murder rate of 15.6 per 100,000 isn’t even in the top thirty (30) cities of populations over 100,000. Its ranking is 33rd.

Houston, Texas’ smaller population actually has a slightly higher murder rate of 16.1

New York with its restrictive (gun control) laws has a rate of 6.0 per 100,000
Repeat that……………..NY NY the largest city by population in the country 6.0 per 100,000

The national rate was 5.6

[russ1943]

16. CORRECTION

CHANGE/EDIT

FROM;
The city of Chicago is still the nations third largest in population but its murder rate of 15.6 per 100,000 isn’t even in the top thirty (30) cities of populations over 100,000. Its ranking is 33rd.

TO;
The city of Chicago is still the nations third largest in population but its murder rate of 15.6 per 100,000 isn’t even in the top thirty(30) cities of populations over 100,000. Its ranking is ABOUT 31ST. (According to the wikipedia site.)

The FBI, on its web site, recommends against using its data as a ranking for a variety of reasons and does not rank the crime rates for cities.<1> In November 2007, the executive board of the American Society of Criminology (ASC) approved a resolution opposing the development of city crime rankings from FBI Uniform Crime Reports (UCRs). The resolution states the rankings "represent an irresponsible misuse of the data and do groundless harm to many communities" and "work against a key goal of our society, which is a better understanding of crime-related issues by both scientists and the public".<2>

[spin]

17. Thanks for the links...

the data I used was from 2003.

I like the site I got the data from, but obviously they need to update their info.

The page for Chicago is at: http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Chicago&state=IL

[russ1943]

18. You issued a challenge..................

It appears you’ve missed my point. Your post included among other things, a “challenge”;

Explain how Houston lower murder rate isn't the result of less restrictive firearm laws.

You’ve acknowledged your source used data from 2003. In 2003 Philadelphia had a higher murder rate than Chicago.
Houston, LA and New York had lower rates than either.


Your facts and the challenge you’ve issued are indicative of a gun enthusiasts mind set.
First the relative values/restrictions of the gun control laws for (the cities you’ve referenced) New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston and Philadelphia are too subjective for me to dispute.
Your opinion seems to be that Houston probably has the least restrictive firearms laws. Another poster thinks Philly’s are similar. For the sake of this discussion I’ll accept that premise.
You stated that;

“it is interesting that the city with the lowest murder rate was the city with the least restrictive gun laws”

The first problem is, you confused total numbers of murders, with murder rate. While the lowest total number of murders in 2003 of the cities you’ve listed was Houston @ 278, the lowest murder rate among them was New York.

As with gun enthusiasts in general, we can only guess you’re concluding that your opinion regarding the fewer restrictions on firearms in general, is a contributing factor in Houston’s lower total murder count.

If so, I’d be curious what do you think is the reason that from 2003 to 2007 Chicago Los Angeles and New York’s murder rates have all declined and Houston’s has increased? The murder rate nationally has declined.
Could it be that the less restrictive gun law atmosphere contributes towards an increase in murder rates?

That isn’t my claim, but do you consider your challenge answered?

[spin]

19. Yes I issued a challenge and you stepped up to the plate...

and hit a home run. You used better statistics and sound logic to prove your point.

But perhaps I've found someone to discuss gun control with who holds a different view than mine and may present arguments that may cause me to reconsider and modify my own views. All to often many good posts on DU are ignored or receive only "drive by shooting" replies.

True, I believe that fewer restrictions on gun ownership by honest citizens does lower the murder rate. It's my feeling that allowing responsible people to own firearms for self defense changes the nature of crime in an area. You may find the number of home invasions decreases as the criminal element fears an encounter with an armed citizen. But the number of home break ins on unoccupied dwellings may increase.

But many factors contribute to the murder rate of an individual city. You asked if I could explain why Houston's murder rate has increased. Well, the two following newspaper reports may explain the problem.

With more than 300 homicides since January, Houston is on pace to record nearly 400 slayings for the year - which would be the highest number of killings the city has seen in more than a decade.

]As of Oct. 16, the city had recorded 316 homicides, up 25 percent from the 252 slayings at this time last year. The Houston Police Department said an uptick in homicides by Hurricane Katrina evacuees has contributed to that increase.

"We recognize that the homicide rate is up as far as raw numbers and as well as percentages relative to the population,'' said Capt. Dwayne Ready. ``We also recognize that Katrina evacuees continue to have an impact on the murder rate."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4277375.html

HOUSTON -- Houston's murder rate was No. 2 in the nation in 2006, outranked only by Philadelphia, KPRC Local 2 reported Tuesday.

According to statistics compiled by the FBI, Houston's homicide rate climbed 12 percent in 2006 with a total of 334 deaths. The Bayou City had more murders than Dallas for the first time in more than a decade.

Police admitted that the Houston homicide rate spiked in 2006, but insisted that it is on the decline in 2007.

Officials attributed the surge to what they call the "Katrina effect."

The wave of Katrina evacuees that settled in Houston included criminals that police said were involved in 74 killings last year.
http://www.click2houston.com/news/13448543/detail.html

But this year Chicago is on pace to become the murder capitol of the U.S. And why is this?

Overall, Chicago is on pace to top 500 murders for the year, the highest since a particularly violent 600+ murders in 2003. The number of "aggravated batteries with a firearm" also increased over the same time period from 2007 with 1,153 being reported so far this year, 245 more than last year. Chicago Police Department Monique Bond claims that gang violence is to blame for the spike in violent crime.

"The department's been focusing on targeting gang hierarchies, which have been dismantled over an extended period of time. causing gangs to now operate in smaller crews that compete against each other for narcotic turf, which leads to deadly violence...Law enforcement is having to adapt to that and looking at different kinds of ways that are outside the traditional ways that we've been using to attack gang violence."
http://chicagoist.com/2008/08/07/chicagos_murder_rate_up.php

And Philadelphia seems to be facing an increase in murder and violence caused by teen aged drug gangs according to this 2007 report:

Over the past couple of years, Philadelphia’s murder rate reached highs not seen since the 1980s, according to the Philadelphia Police Department. So far this year, more than 315 people have been killed, a pace of well over a murder a day, police said. That’s a higher rate, according to FBI statistics, than much larger cities like Chicago, Los Angeles, and New York.

]But Philadelphia’s situation is different today from years past in that more and more of the killers are teenagers, according to the Philadelphia Police Department and the Philadelphia District Attorney’s office.

“They just shoot at anything and everybody, without even looking,” said Shawn Banks, a former drug dealer and gang member. Now in his 30s, he said the new generation that rules the streets is made up of kids who shoot first and never consider the consequences.
http://www.keystonepolitics.com/story/regional-news/philadelphia/city-death-philadelphia-murder-rate-highest-nearly-20-years

But New York Cities murder rates have been dropping. Why. Perhaps this report shows the cause:

With the Bronx, like the rest of the city, seeing crime declining to its lowest numbers in decades, 140 brand-spanking-new cops will hit the borough Friday, assigned to specific stubborn trouble spots.

The plan, known as Operation Impact, has been a major factor in stamping out crime hot spots around the city and helping drive crime down to levels not seen since the 1960s.

Citywide, the number of homicides is expected to dip below 500.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/bronx/2007/12/28/2007-12-28_3precinct_operation_aims_to_lower_crime.html

A number of times I've posted my own views on gun control which have resulted in few coherent responses.

So I'll ask for your opinion.

True gun control is not limiting or restricting firearms owned by honest responsible citizens but focusing on taking illegal guns from the hands of irresponsible people and the criminal element.

Fewer firearms in the hands of the criminal element will reduce the demand for firearms by honest citizens. Of course we may have to hire more police and build some new prisons to house the criminals caught with illegal firearms, but the homicide and crime rates will decrease.

Honest citizens obey laws. Criminals don't. Gun control laws that focus on the good element of our society have little effect on the bad element.

[Patient]

10. Thats what happens

...when you allow criminals to have access to guns, but the ordinary law abiding citizen cannot. I am Obama all the way, but it is the one issue that I have a problem with, the democratic idea that taking guns away from "good" people is suppose to protect them from the "bad" people.

I pay taxes, own my own business and am an good citizen, but to think that I cannot legally defend myself in my own home or place of business if someone wants to threaten myself or my family is absurd.

If you think gun bans work, just take a look at my city (Chicago) or even England. Go look over there and see how that has helped them in terms of knife and non-gun related murders. It hasn't.

[jal777]

12. This is somthing typical that.........

happens in a place where owning a defense firearm is illegal and preaches that nobody sould own one.

[Hangingon]

20. The Chicago problem is so bad and so long standing...

that one wonders why anyone in office there should be allowed to correct it. Obviously they have no effective remedies.