The ATF thinks Brady is Full of Sh-t

[Emoto]

http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/more/MGBXJ60SNID.html

"...Federal officials have called misleading a report by a national gun-control group that lists 10 gun dealers, including one in Chesterfield County, among the nation's worst in selling guns linked to crimes..."

[MrBenchley]

1. Wow, not a single quote on the record....

Sounds like it's the story that's full of it...

[JayS]

3. Just this one. And I'll agree that any reporting that attributes...

...any quote to just the ATF, NRA, HCI, etc. is not the best reporting...but with the state of reporting being what it is these days it is to be expected.



ATF spokesman Tom Hill noted that large-volume gun dealers "probably will have more traces" of guns used in crimes than smaller ones.

"That doesn't mean the dealer is committing a crime," Hill explained. "It just means they're selling more guns."

[papau]

2. Seems like a reasonable stuty

Brady folks say that they are not suggesting that these dealers are selling guns directly to criminals, - only that that there are crime guns being traced back to their stores, and for the entire country the most crime guns were traced back to these stores. - and that 50 percent of guns traced to crime come from less than 2 percent of the nation's gun dealers.

Granted high volume explains some of this - but I do not see it explaining all of the data - nor do I see the report as "F-ll of S**t.

[BoatsTwice]

10. I agree. The Brady's motives in this case are as pure as driven

urine.


Rob Wilcox, a national spokesman for the Brady group, said the list highlights those gun dealers that have "lousy track records," and the numbers of crime guns traced to those dealers speak for themselves. (Odd, if the numbers speak for themselves how have these people avoided being busted by the ATF, especially since many of the years covered are smack dab in the middle of the Clinton Administration?)

"I wouldn't say we're ever suggesting that are selling guns to criminals," Wilcox said. "What we're saying very specifically is that there are crime guns being traced back to their stores, and for the entire country the most crime guns were traced back to these stores." Of course we must wait for the next quote for the nebulous accusation of law-breaking on the part of the dealers.

Wilcox added that more than 50 percent of guns traced to crime come from less than 2 percent of the nation's gun dealers. "I think that they are doing things that are irresponsible," he said.

Predictably, he won't then specify what irresponsibilities those might be, (nor do they do so on their own website where their own conclusions might go unchallenged, but maybe that would then be libelous), prefering to smear them through a publically crude number counting exercise that has at its root the far more plausible explanation of high sales volume.

Like them or not, the ATF compiles the trace numbers and enforces the federal firearms licensees in this country. Their spokepeople say that the Bradys have essentially decontextualized the gun trace program and twisted its results to their own ends.

I suppose they are lying about that?:eyes:

[MrBenchley]

11. Cry us a frigging river

How awful that the Brady Campaign should put the finger on these irresponsible goons.

"Wilcox added that more than 50 percent of guns traced to crime come from less than 2 percent of the nation's gun dealers. "I think that they are doing things that are irresponsible," he said.
Predictably, he won't then specify what irresponsibilities those might be..."
Because most sane people know what they are.

[Withergyld]

12. I guess I'm not sane...

because I don't see how the Dealers were irresponsible. If the dealers broke the law, why weren't they prosecuted?

[MrBenchley]

13. You said it

not me

[jody]

4. Emoto, do you realize you spoiled the day for many gun-control and

gun-hater proponents?

The Scary Brady Bunch wouldn't lie would it?

They're as reliable as AWOL and his WMD in Iraq. Both deal in unsupported assertions designed to create fear.

[Caution]

7. Are you kidding?

Are we talking about the same ATF that most gun proponents think are real bastards for what they did at Waco, Texas to the Branch Davidians? I'm sorry but as someone who is in favor of gun control (no i dont think all guns should be banned...but i see no justification for saturday night specials being made with absolutely no regulation...those guns are dangerous...and not to the person being shot at but to the person doing the shooting...they are crap and anyone who thinks there should be no quality and control regulations in gun manufacturing is insane...there are many other reasons I am for gun control), I don't think the federal government, particularly those in ATF, are people whose word I am going to take when it comes to a serious study on anything related to guns. Practically the entire federal government is beholden to the NRA.

[jody]

9. Facts are facts, regardless of who says them.

[BullDozer]

14. Just say no to stickers

but i see no justification for saturday night specials being made with absolutely no regulation...those guns are dangerous...and not to the person being shot at but to the person doing the shooting...

You're going to have to supply your definition of Saturday Night special for us.

California devised their own testing protocols and made it law that no handgun may be manufactured within California, imported into California for sale, lent, given, kept for sale, or offered/exposed for sale unless that handgun model has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice.

As far as I know many manufacturers of what HCI/VPC and others like them would like to label as Saturday Night Specials or their newest term junk guns all passed these tests.

[Born_a_Democrat]

5. My heart bleeds for the gun industry (literally)

I love the quote by the Gun Store Biotch...

"What Brady is trying to do, of course, is take all the guns off the street,"

OH MY FU<kING GOD!!!!....THEY WANT TO TAKE ALL THE GUNS OFF THE STREET...QUICK DO SOMETHING BEFORE ALL MURDERS AND GUN VIOLENCE COME TO A COMPLETE HALT.....


crazy bitch!

[el_gato]

6. your fearmongering

those two quotes, yours and the anti brady quote are two sides of the same coin.

of course the name calling doesn't help your arguement either.

[jhfenton]

8. The Brady Bunch want to take all the guns off the street...

including mine, even though the G26 currently on my ankle has never been fired in anger. It has never been aimed at another living creature.

It protects me and my family.
It accompanies me to regional and national handgun competitions.
It makes my world a safer place.

The Brady Bunch wants to put me and my family at risk. Why do you think we might not like that?

[CO Liberal]

15. Othniel Askew Probably Never Fired His Gun In Anger, Either.......

...until last week in City Hall in NYC. Now he and another man are dead.

Think about that.

[jhfenton]

16. What am I supposed to think about?

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to think about, unless you're implying that I might snap at any moment and shoot a potential political opponent.

I honestly have no idea what Askew had done before last week. If he murdered a man in cold blood, however, I know he didn't share my respect for human life.

[CO Liberal]

17. People Can Snap At Any Time

And if they have a gun at hand, tragedy will result.

THAT'S what I want you to think about.

[gotin]

18. You are right!

People can snap at any time, so lets stop issuing driving licenses? Or since we are at it, why don’t we just put everybody in jail and save lives?
Is it guilty until proven innocent now?

[CO Liberal]

19. I've Seen Tempers Flare On This Board

And heard tempers flare on local talk radio. And it scares me to think that some of the angriest people have guns at their disposal.........

[gotin]

20. I know what you mean.

But there is no existing method of selecting the people who will snap in the future from the people who won’t. Until such a method is developed I prefer to have the means to stop snapped people.

[Emoto]

21. This is nothing new

People have "snapped" as long as there have been people. But, not many people do snap. And, when they do, snapping means different things for different people. For most of us, snapping might mean honking the horn or cussing under our breath.

Another thing is that even when carrying a gun is a no-hassle option, as in VT and AK, only a tiny % of people choose to carry. The percentage is even smaller when anti-constitutional bureaucratic hurdles are added. Most of the gun crime that goes on is perpetrated by thugs with long criminal histories, who should have been locked up and kept in jail, were our courts not so lenient on violent offenders.

Look at NYC, DC, or here in MA. Very few people are legally entitled to have or carry handguns in those places, yet the criminal element still manages to ply it's trade. It all comes back to the central questions of how do you keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them, and who gets to decide? I continue to believe strongly in our "innocent until proven guilty" approach.