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Blackwater using cache of AK-47s -Rifles given to sheriff in deal that skirts law (NC)

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davepc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 05:33 AM
Original message
Blackwater using cache of AK-47s -Rifles given to sheriff in deal that skirts law (NC)
http://www.newsobserver.com/917/story/1116379.html

The private military company Blackwater has found an unusual way to skirt federal laws that prohibit private parties from buying automatic weapons. Blackwater bought 17 Romanian AK-47s and 17 Bushmasters, gave ownership of the guns to the Camden County sheriff and keeps most of the guns at Blackwater's armory in Moyock.
Tiny Camden County -- population 9,271 -- is one of the most peaceful in North Carolina. In the last 10 years, there have been two murders, three robberies and seven rapes reported. The sheriff has just 19 deputies.

Sheriff Tony Perry said his department has never used the 17 AK-47s outside of shooting practice at Blackwater. None of his 19 deputies are qualified to use the AK-47s, Perry said, and his department's need for automatic weapons is "very minimal."

In the summer of 2005, Blackwater CEO Gary Jackson signed two agreements with Maj. Jon Worthington of the Sheriff's Office. Worthington has worked as a firearms instructor for Blackwater.

"Blackwater has financed the purchase of 17 Romanian AK-47 rifles for the Camden County Sheriff's Office for use by Sheriff's Office," the agreement says. "The Camden County Sheriff's Office will have unlimited access to these rifles for training and qualification, and state of emergency use." Worthington and Jackson also signed an agreement for the purchase of 17 Bushmaster XM15 E2S automatic rifles.

...


Maybe I should float this by the local PD. I pay for the gun, keep it on my premisises, but they actually own it and can shoot it "for training".

Think they would go for it?

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solinvictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 05:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. No..
..because you're not a well-heeled paramilitary company. This is disturbing on many levels and highlights the need for law abiding citizens to keep effective firearms. Wait until these guys are turned out on us.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 05:47 AM
Response to Original message
2. The flip side is the guns are available to Blackwater immediately if it wishes to use them as a
govt. contractor to enforce martial law with an augmented Blackwater force.

I'm mindful of Blackwater's role in NOLA after Katrina hit protecting estates of the elite, etc.

I wonder how many LEO agencies have similar arrangements with Blackwater?
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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #2
16. that is scary
and that is why it's done. Good post.
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peace13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
3. Good luck to the locals when they need to use the guns.
Why does the Sheriff put a private company before the safety of the people? Who do they think Blackwater will be shooting with these monster guns? What is the IQ of the average Sheriff?
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
4. This is an example of why the 2nd Amendment says "shall not be infringed". The powerful and ...
...potentially tyrannical find a way to possess the arms made impossible or difficult for civilians to own due to so called gun control laws.


That was rambling, but you get my drift, I'm sure.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Blackwater is a private militia by any name. I thought SCOTUS said those were illegal. n/t
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. And yet, here they are. (maybe I'm not following you).
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I id not make my point clearly, I had in mind the discussion below.
Second Amendment from the Free Dictionary
On appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court, Presser argued, in part, that the charges violated his Second Amendment right to bear arms. The Court disagreed and upheld Presser's conviction. The Court cited Cruikshank for the proposition that the Second Amendment means only that the federal government may not infringe on the right of states to form their own militias. This meant that the Illinois state law forbidding citizen militias was not unconstitutional. However, in its opinion, the Court in Presser delivered a reading of the Second Amendment that seemed to suggest an absolute right of persons to bear arms: "It is undoubtedly true that all citizens capable of bearing arms constitute the reserved military force or reserve militia of the United States," and "states cannot … prohibit the people from keeping and bearing arms."

* * * * * * * * * * * *

Private militias are armed military groups that are composed of private citizens and not recognized by federal or state governments. Private militias have been formed by individuals in America since the colonial period. In fact, the Revolutionary War against England was fought in part by armies comprising not professional soldiers but ordinary male citizens.

Approximately half the states maintain laws regulating private militias. Generally, these laws prohibit the parading and exercising of armed private militias in public, but do not forbid the formation of private militias. In Wyoming, however, state law forbids the very formation of private militias. Under section 19-1-106 of the Wyoming Statutes, "No body of men other than the regularly organized national guard or the troops of the United States shall associate themselves together as a military company or organization, or parade in public with arms without license of the governor." The Wyoming law also prohibits the public funding of private militias. Anyone convicted of violating the provisions of the law is subject to a fine of not more than $1,000, imprisonment of six months, or both, for each offense.

In states that do not outlaw them, private militias are limited only by the criminal laws applicable to all of society. Thus, if an armed private militia seeks to parade and exercise in a public area, its members will be subject to arrest on a variety of laws, including disturbing-the-peace, firearms, or even riot statutes.

Many private militias are driven by the insurrection theory of the Second Amendment. Under this view, the Second Amendment grants an unconditional right to bear arms for Self-Defense and for rebellion against a tyrannical government—when a government turns oppressive, private citizens have a duty to "insurrect," or take up arms against it.

The U.S. Supreme Court has issued a qualified rejection of the insurrection theory. According to the Court in Dennis v. United States, 341 U.S. 494, 71 S. Ct. 857, 95 L. Ed. 1137 (1951), "hatever theoretical merit there may be to the argument that there is a 'right' to rebellion against dictatorial governments is without force where the existing structure of the government provides for peaceful and orderly change." Scholars have interpreted this to mean that as long as the government provides for free elections and trials by jury, private citizens have no right to take up arms against the government.

Some people have disagreed with the Supreme Court's definition of tyranny. Many of these people label the state and federal governments as tyrannical based on issues such as taxes and government regulations. Others cite governments ponsored racial and ethnic Integration as driving forces in their campaign against the federal and state governments. Many of these critics have formed private militias designed to resist perceived government oppression.

Some private militias have formed their own government. The legal problems of these private militias are generally unrelated to military activities. Instead, any criminal charges usually arise from activities associated with their political beliefs. The Freemen of Montana is one such militia. This group denied the legitimacy of the federal government and created its own township called Justus. The Freemen established its own court system, posted bounties for the arrest of police officers and judges, and held seminars on how to challenge laws its members viewed as beyond the scope of the Constitution. According to neighbors, the group also established its own common-law court system and built its own jail for the imprisonment of trespassers and government workers, or "public hirelings."

In the 1990s, the Freemen came to the attention of federal prosecutors after members of the group allegedly wrote worthless checks and money orders to pay taxes and to defraud banks and credit card companies. One Freeman had also allegedly threatened a federal judge, and some had allegedly refused to pay taxes for at least a decade.

In March 1996, law enforcement officials obtained warrants for the arrest of many of the Freemen. However, remembering the violence that occurred when officials attempted to serve arrest warrants on another armed group in Waco, Texas, in 1993, law enforcement authorities did not invade the Freemen's 960-acre ranch in Jordan, Montana. Although the Freemen constituted an armed challenge to all government authority, its beliefs and its military activities were not illegal, and most of its members were charged with nonviolent crimes, such as Fraud and related conspiracy. Two men were also charged with threatening public officials. In addition, several Freemen faced charges of criminal syndicalism, which is the advocacy of violence for political goals.

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gorfle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
5. mercanaries, plain and simple.
These guys are mercenaries, plain and simple. They are a mercenary organization set up because they can do things that our own armed forces would get cremated for doing. All hidden nicely behind a corporate veil.

About the only good thing about organizations like this is the special forces soldiers who join them finally get paid some serious money for the risks they take. An acquaintance of mine left the special forces to work for a private security firm and I think he was getting paid something like half a million dollars a year.
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tburnsten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. And things our soldiers would be unwilling to do NT
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
8. you folks are a barrel o' monkeys

The people are entitled to arm themselves just in case they encounter a gummint that needs removing.

Blackwater is pushing the envelope by doing it with automatic firearms. Big whup.

Did you imagine that only people you like (if only I could figure out who they are) would be getting the gunz and judging the gummints, by standards that you approve?

Whassamatta. Don't you trust your fellow citizens?

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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Somebody lied to you
Who told you that Blackwater = "the people"?

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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. hmm

Perhaps someone has told you that Blackwater = "the government".

I guess that means that I = the government. After all, I work for it on contract ...

Respect my authority.

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The Wielding Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Like US citizens blackwater,too must live within local and fed law.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-23-08 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
11. My brother has a friend that does this.
He has an FFL Class 3 license and a cop buddy of his was talking about the difficulty finding automatic weapons dealers in their state, he asked what weapons they wanted to test and ordered them. They test fired them and bought a dozen. Word of mouth got around and he is now the largest supplier of automatic weapons to law enforcement agencies in his state. He makes over 100 k a year for about a month of work per year.

David
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Tejas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-24-08 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
13. huh?
County population of 9200 people requires 19 County Deputies?


By the way, the article contains a few inaccuracies on gun laws but the overall content is pretty wild. This story is bound to get bigger.

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Meiko Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
15. Something doesn't make sense
The XM15 E2S is not a class III weapon. In addition if you own a "full automatic" weapon it cannot be lent out, it must be in the possession of the registered owner. The entire story has problems.
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davepc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-26-08 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
17. *UPDATE* Federal Agents Raid Blackwater N.C. Armory in Firearms Probe
Federal agents have raided an armory owned by security contractor Blackwater Worldwide.

The North Carolina-based company said the raid was part of an investigation into a deal that allowed a local sheriff's office to store high-powered assault rifles at the company's armory at its headquarters in Moyock.

Blackwater spokeswoman Anne Tyrrell says that investigators with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives searched Blackwater's armory Tuesday.

She said she did not know whether the weapons in question were seized.


http://www.newsobserver.com/nation_world/story/1121141.html
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