Gov. Paterson wants to give the NRA a state-sanctioned role in training would-be gun owners

[Howzit]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008/06/19/2008-06-19_paterson_nra_should_train_gun_owners-1.html

"ALBANY - Gov. Paterson wants to give the National Rifle Association - of all people - a state-sanctioned role in training would-be gun owners in New York. Paterson is proposing a gun safety bill that, in part, requires buyers of guns to first take a firearms safety course.

A clause tucked away in the bill says the program must meet or exceed the standards of "the home firearms safety course as approved by the National Rifle Association" or another course approved by the state police. While the NRA training program is well-regarded, its inclusion in the bill has angered a number of legislative Democrats and anti-gun activists.

Jackie Hilly, executive director of New Yorkers Against Violence, said the inclusion of the NRA in the legislation gives the group state-sanctioned support. She said it should be up to the state police to set specific standards for the safety courses, not a pro-gun interest group looking for new members."


Is partisanship more important than getting the job done?

[napi21]

1. I think it's a good idea to include the NRA in a gun training course.

As radical as they are sometimes, they really DO know about guns and safety issues. It would also give many pro-gun supporters a reason to have confidence in the program.

[DonP]

2. Huh?

"Jackie Hilly, executive director of New Yorkers Against Violence, said the inclusion of the NRA in the legislation gives the group state-sanctioned support. She said it should be up to the state police to set specific standards for the safety courses, not a pro-gun interest group looking for new members."

State Sanctioned support?

I'm guessing she either doesn't know about, or more likely would prefer to ignore, all the law enforcement training the NRA already does or the programs they have for helping teach marksmanship in basic training for the Army.

Hey, maybe she can get the Brady group to work with her and teach gun safety programs, Hmmm? I bet with all their concerns about protecting people from gun accidents and violence in general they must have invested some of the millions the Joyce Foundation has given them in a great teaching program on gun safety that they are offering at no charge to schools, youth groups and communities.

Cause if they don't, then their program is about as intelligent and effective as Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" approach.

[AtheistCrusader]

5. There's two sides to the NRA

The political action side, and the marksmanship/safety side. The two have little to do with each other, however, I would like to see a little more separation. Originally, there was no political action needed, but it shouldered that burden as well, over time. No one else was doing so effectively.

[Crabby Appleton]

3. It's a good idea - I took a state required firearm safety course

run by the NRA many years ago, and it was excellent. Also there was absolutely no attempt to recruit new members or to politicize the training. They showed slides of gunshot victims so that the students would know just exactly what the consequences of shooting a person would be, and warned that if you did shoot someone, your life would be forever changed, no matter how justified the shooting.

[slackmaster]

4. What's this? Put some objective standards on safety training, and require it?

Has the whole world gone insane?

:sarcasm:

[spin]

6. Just who are NRA instructors?

http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/instructor.asp

What do you learn from their classes?

http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/basictraining.asp

Where can you find one?

http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/find.asp

Not a bad idea to take a course from an NRA instructor if you own a firearm or are thinking about buying one.

[solinvictus]

7. Makes sense to me..

..I mean, the NRA does sponsor and manage firearms safety classes. Who would you prefer to conduct gun safety classes?

[iverglas]

8. it isn't actually unheard of

Standards adopted in the private sector are not uncommonly referred to in legislation. The standard-setting organization isn't usually one engaged in political lobbying, of course.

Canada manages to have firearms safety training, which is mandatory for obtaining a firearms licence, without involving the NRA.

http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/safety-surete/safety_course_e.asp

Canadian Firearms Safety Course (CFSC)

LogoThe Canadian Firearms Safety Course (CFSC) was developed in partnership with the provinces and territories, national organizations with an ongoing interest in firearms safety, and many firearms and hunter education course instructors from across Canada. This course was developed to meet the mandatory requirements set out in subparagraph 106(2)(c)(i) of the Criminal Code of Canada and came into effect January 1, 1994.

As a result of the Firearms Act, the firearms safety training that is provided to firearms owners and users required modification. The revised CFSC, which was implemented on February 1, 1999, reflects the new legislation and focuses primarily on non-restricted firearms (rifles and shotguns). The legislation stipulates that individuals wishing to acquire non-restricted firearms must take the CFSC and pass the tests OR challenge and pass the CFSC tests without taking the course.
Topics covered in the CFSC include:

* the evolution of firearms, major parts, types and actions;
* basic firearms safety practices;
* ammunition;
* operating firearm actions;
* safe handling and carry procedures;
* firing techniques and procedures;
* care of non-restricted firearms;
* responsibilities of the firearms owner/user; and
* safe storage, display, transportation and handling of non-restricted firearms.


Safety Training Links

The following links provide additional information about the Firearms Safety Training. Please select from the Menu below.

* Firearm Safety Education Service of Ontario
* Atlantic Provinces Hunter Education
* Fédération québécoise de la faune
* Alberta Hunter Education Instructors' Association
* Saskatchewan Hunter Education Course

http://www.fseso.org/

FSESO Profile

The FSESO was founded in 1993 by firearms enthusiasts who believed that the best people to offer training to firearm owners were people who loved the sport and wanted it to prosper.

In order to be recognized as a professional association, the FSESO had to prove to the government that it could develop and maintain all the required programs. A code of ethics, an audit program to monitor the quality of instruction, professional development programs, certification programs, training aids, and a process for handling complaints from the public all had to be created and implemented.

The FSESO is a self-funded organization; the sales of manuals and tests are used to cover all operating expenses and to help fund special projects like the development of videos and training aids.

Each province has its own delivery method for the Canadian Firearms Safety Courses. In Ontario, each instructor / examiner delivers the course directly to the public. They set their own prices and do most of their own administration.

It's obviously important, but it also isn't exactly rocket science.

It would seem quite adequate to refer to a course approved by the state police, which would include NRA courses and any others that met the standards.

[Tejas]

9. Can't figure this part out.

"Upset Democrats are trying to meet with Paterson aides about the provision."

I don't see any prelude to this statement, nothing after it seems to connect either. What is this sentence included for? What in particular are the Democrats uspet about? No upset Republicans?

"Trying to" meet with Paterson, is he unavailable?




"Paterson's bill has faced opposition in both houses and has yet to be introduced."


Is this typical NY politics?

[old mark]

10. This is a really stupid writer who has no idea...

...of the facts. The NRA has been training shooting safety since is was founded, as one of its main purposes. It has traditionally set up and run Hunter Safety Education programs in many states to teach young people and new hunters gun safety. In Pennsylvania, every first time hunting license purchaser is REQUIRED to addent and pass a hunter safety course.
NRA also teaches gun handling safety courses and basic shooting programs to police departments all over the US and has beed doing this for nearly 100 years.
The whole political shift to the right in the NRA occurred about 25 years ago when it was felt there was danger of gun restriction and confiscation here as there was in other countries.

The NRA supports and teaches safety and responsibility in handling firearms.

NO, I am not an NRA member...I don't like their politics on other issues, but I was back before they became so rightist, about 25 years ago.


mark

[krispos42]

11. My guess is they are afraid of gun-owners becoming NRA members...

...for the non-political aspect of membership. Then they would get the magazine (which has political stuff in it) and.... and... God knows, might see another aspect of things besides those of Mayor Bloomberg, Sen, Schumer, and Rep. McCarthy.

People might actually learn, for example, that the terms "assault weapon" and "gun-show loophole" are inaccurate and perjorative framing tools. And that would be bad...

[old mark]

12. I see your point-it might lead

to politicians actually having to do some real worthwhile work instead of invoking buzzwords.Where would it end?

mark

[iverglas]

13. or put another way

They are opposed to state legislation being used to provide a private organization with a recruiting tool and income generating device.

Imagine what people would think if there were legislation requiring that driver's ed courses meet the standards of the Acme Driving School driver education course.


My guess is they are afraid of gun-owners becoming NRA members...
...for the non-political aspect of membership. Then they would get the magazine (which has political stuff in it) and.... and... God knows, might see another aspect of things besides those of Mayor Bloomberg, Sen, Schumer, and Rep. McCarthy.

My goodness. You do seem to have a low opinion of the common firearm owner. S/he is just too dim to figure out how to find out what the NRA thinks about stuff unless the state government points him/her in that direction.

Kinda illustrates the problem with the legislation though, I guess, eh?