Yes - in 10 years we may have no bananas

[jpak]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,875612,00.html

It is a freakish, doped-up, mutant clone which hasn't had sex for thousands of years - and the strain may be about to tell on the nation's fruitbowl favourite. Scientists based in France have warned that, without radical and swift action, in 10 years' time we really could have no bananas.

Two fungal diseases, Panama disease and black Sigatoka, are cutting a swath through banana plantations, just as blight once devastated potato crops. But unlike the potato, and other crops where disease-resistant strains can be bred by conventional means, making a fungus-free variety of the banana is extraordinarily difficult

Emile Frison, head of the Montpellier-based International Network for the Improvement of Banana and Plantain, told New Scientist magazine that the banana business could be defunct within a decade. This doesn't just mean we will be eating aubergine splits and that future govern ments may be mocked for policy melon skins. The banana, in various forms, is the staple diet for some half billion people in Asia and Africa.

Almost all the varieties of banana grown today are cuttings - clones, in effect - of naturally mutant wild bananas discovered by early farmers as much as 10,000 years ago. The rare mutation caused wild bananas to grow sterile, without seeds. Those ancient farmers took cuttings of the mutants, then cuttings of the cuttings.

<more>

[Ezlivin]

1. In 10 years - no bananas, no fish and rising seas

What a great time to be alive! :sarcasm:

[jpak]

5. What's that old Bowie song again?

Five Years???

[Benhurst]

2. Recommended

[mzteris]

3. Yes! We have no bananas

we have no bananas today......


1. There's a fruit store on our street,
It's run by a Greek.
And he keeps good things to eat
But you should hear him speak.
When you ask him anything
He never answers "No."
He just "Yesses" you to death,
And as he takes your dough,
He tells you:
(chorus)
YES! We have no bananas,
We have no bananas today.
We've string beans and HON-ions,
Cab-BAH-ges and scallions
And all kinds of fruit, and say
We have an old fashioned to-MAH-to,
Long Island po-TAH-to,
But YES! We have no bananas.
We have no bananas today.

2. Business got so good with him
He wrote home to say:
"Send me Pete and Nick and Jim,
I need help right away."
When he got them in the store,
There was fun, you bet!
Someone asked for "Sparrow grass,"
And the whole quartet

All answered:
"Yes, we have no bananas
We have-a no bananas today.
Just try those coconuts
Those all-nuts and doghnuts
There ain't many nuts like they.
We'll sell you two kinds of red herring,
Dark brown, and ball-bearing.
But yes, we have no bananas
We have no bananas today."


Sorry - I couldn't resist! It's actually terrible news. Along with pretty much everything we've been hearing lately about the future of the planet.

[bananas]

45. Shep's two favorite songs

"Yes, we have no banana's, ..."
and
"I am the sheik, the sheik of Araby, ..."

[ThoughtCriminal]

4. Not even at an

Afghanistan Banana Stand?

That would suck.

[rodeodance]

7. whow.

[phantom power]

6. To say nothing of the loss of pollinating plants.

[havocmom]

9. bees aren't doin so well in a lot of places either

Gonna be eatin grass... if global warming and drought leaves us with any wheat production at all

[bullimiami]

10. soylent red and yellow and then ..... the green.

[JacksonWest]

12. I think you'll be ok.

Even in a worse case scenario, you're going to have grass the rest of your life. The global warming theory that is being advanced by Al Gore and friends argues that the "tipping point" will happen in the next ten years, and we will be unable to stop the process.

[phantom power]

13. The tipping point is already past.

[JacksonWest]

14. Ok. Sure. Great. So let's do nothing. Since it's already past.

The "tipping point" being past would indicate that all efforts were futile. Just going by what Gore said in his film, and in many, many speeches.

But, if it's already past, that's fine to. What do you think we should do, since it has already passed?

[GliderGuider]

20. Huh? There's a lot we can do.

We start off by making sure that the descent is as gradual as possible.
We continue by ensuring that as many people as possible survive it.
We ensure that those who do survive have as much knowledge and understanding as possible, and as many resources as possible, to build whatever comes afterwards.
We try to make sure that our society preserves as many resilient pockets as possible that will carry forward those people with their knowledge and resources.

Accepting that a decline is inevitable doesn't mean giving up. That's an arrogant attitude that assumes we are all that ever could be.

Every complex dynamic system (ecosystem, society, civilization etc.) goes through cycles of growth and expansion coupled with a an increase in complexity and a loss of resilience, followed by a decline coupled with a shedding of complexity and and a regaining of resilience, followed by a turnaround to further growth (though perhaps in a different form). The fact that our decline has become inevitable in no way means that all is lost. Our civilization is not all there is or ever will be.

[JacksonWest]

25. I think we're working with different definitions of "tipping point".

Anyway, your scenario above sounds like the way we should react if a meteor was heading toward the earth.

And whens the last time this country has "ensured" anything with a reasonable degree of certainty? We're certainly not going to ensure many people survive.

"Accepting that a decline is inevitable doesn't mean giving up. That's an arrogant attitude that assumes we are all that ever could"

What decline? I thought we were talking about Global Warming, not a metaphorical "fall of rome fall of society thing". I don't view climate change as a decline, I actually look at it in the same way you do- a cycle that is inevitable. We had ice ages before, we can have them again. IF man changes the environment drastically, man will be wiped out. Easy come, easy go. So, no, I don't think it's a decline. I don't think we have done anything at this point that is going to make a difference one way or the other-in terms of the environment. I'm sure if we don't STOP doing certain things we're going to escalate the inevitable process. Bottom line, pollution is bad anyways. If it speeds climate change-all the more reason to get rid of it.

[GliderGuider]

28. Climate Change isn't the only problem we're facing right now.

Climate change is one element of a much larger set of interlocking problems that we're facing. All of them have their own tipping points, and a number of those either have happened, are happening, or will happen shortly.

It's called the World Problematique. Interactions of the various elements, climate change among them, are what could trigger a decline of civilization. For a list of the component problems take a look at http://www.paulchefurka.com.

[JacksonWest]

39. 4 8 15 16 23 42 is the numerical expression of these various elements

Which reminds me, Lost is back this week!

[phantom power]

23. We still get to choose between bad and unspeakably bad.

That is still an important choice we can make. However, my reading of events over the last two years is that the tipping point happened relatively recently. Say, circa 2000. That's just me. Other people who do climate science for a living disagree. On the other hand some of them do agree with me. As with peak oil, it's hard to be absolutely sure of such things until well after the fact.

I worry about people throwing around the "10-more-years" meme. I'm pretty sure that the proverbial man on the street hears that and gets a warm fuzzy that somehow everything will still turn out OK. It's not going to be like that.

If I were king for a day, I would start the world planning in terms of adaptation and survival. Not "prevention," in the sense of "if we do X Y and Z, the world as we know it can continue as it always has." I would treat CO2 and methane as immediate threats to our survival, to be dealt with at the level of governments and international cooperation, because that is the only scale at which the problem can be usefully solved.

[havocmom]

19. I'll be OK cuz I don't live much longer

But I tend to worry about more than myself.

Bees afflicted with mites are dying off. A decline in bees = decline in many foods

Garden if you can. Learn to preserve food. It is gonna get pricey what with weather, pollinators dying and large corporations patenting seeds with a kill gene.

If life under Big Oil is not good, think about life under BIG AG instead of farmers who are on the up and up and part of your communities.

Oh, and file for your water rights NOW. Those are being gobbled up by BIG BUSINESS too.

[bananas]

46. I won't be OK - I'll be eaten by fungi!

Although to be honest, it feels kind of good...

[bananas]

50. grass or 'grass'? tipping point or 'tipping point'?

I am tipping...clear the decks...

[Buzz Clik]

8. My son repeated this story when he was in middle school.

They had the same timeline then -- ten years until the last banana. That was nearly ten years ago.

Whatever.

[jpak]

15. Yes, the Irish Potato(e) Famine and American Chestnut Bight were "myths"

And the Moon is made of Green Cheese...

Whatever!!!!!

[Buzz Clik]

26. LOL! If every damned banana plantation suddenly disappeared, ...

... the impact would never rival the impact of the potato famine.

It would be similar to the American Chestnut blight -- an economic problem resulting from severe mismanagement of the resource.

That is, IF this "banana disaster" ever comes to pass.

[robinlynne]

29. You are sooo wrong. Latin American and Asian familes eat more bananas than europeans and

north americans eat potatoes. bananas are not an "extra' everywhere on earth. And millions of people survive on only one food source.

[Buzz Clik]

31. That's interesting. In what countries do people depend on bananas in this way?

I hadn't heard of this kind of dietary dependency for bananas. It would be interesting to know which countries would be impacted as you describe.

[HamdenRice]

52. Food bananas are called "plantains"

or in Spanish "platanos," and they are eaten almost everywhere tropical. They are not the sweet desert fruit banana that we are used to, but a starchy banana that has to be cooked. They are a common staple all across the developing world.

Parts of Uganda are probably among the most plantain dependent, but platanos are eaten as a staple throughout the Caribbean, Central America, South America, West Africa, East Africa, southeast Asia.

Really the question should be where are bananas not eaten. The great economic benefit of plantains is that they require little labor and provide almost a complete diet by themselves. If bananas disappeared, it would be far worse than the potato famine because far more people rely on plantains than the population of Ireland.

I've got some platanos on my counter right now, and in NYC, with its big Caribbean, Puerto Rican and other Latin population, they are ubiquitous.

Yes, they are a crucial staple food for a half billion people and probably an important food for another half billion.

[jpak]

30. LOL!!111

Fungus threatens the diet staple of half a billion people!!!!

You owe me a new keyboard!!1111

:rofl:

[Buzz Clik]

33. Wow. Half a billion people use bananas as a dietary staple?

That's quite a fraction of the world population. Can you be more specific?

[GliderGuider]

34. Check Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana

Globally, bananas rank fourth after rice, wheat and maize in human consumption; they are grown in 130 countries worldwide, more than any other fruit crop. Bananas are native to tropical southeastern Asia but are widely cultivated in tropical regions. In popular culture and commerce, "banana" usually refers to the soft, sweet "dessert" bananas that are usually eaten raw. The bananas from a group of cultivars with firmer, starchier fruit are generally used in cooking rather than eaten raw. Bananas may also be dried and ground into banana flour.

and...

Depending upon cultivar and ripeness, the flesh can be starchy to sweet, and firm to mushy. Unripe or "green" bananas and plantains are used in cooking and are the staple starch of many tropical populations.

And...

Bananas and plantains constitute a major staple food crop for millions of people in developing countries. In most tropical countries green (unripe) bananas used for cooking represent the main cultivars. Cooking bananas are very similar to potatoes in how they are used. Both can be fried, boiled, baked or chipped and have similar taste and texture when served. One green cooking banana has about the same calorie content as one potato.

In 2003, India led the world in banana production, representing approximately 23% of the worldwide crop, most of which was for domestic consumption. The four leading banana exporting countries were Ecuador, Costa Rica, Philippines, and Colombia, which accounted for about two-thirds of the world's exports, each exporting more than 1 million tons. Ecuador alone provided more than 30% of global banana exports, according to FAO statistics.

And...

While in no danger of outright extinction, the most common edible banana cultivar 'Cavendish' (extremely popular in Europe and the Americas) could become unviable for large-scale cultivation in the next 10-20 years. Its predecessor 'Gros Michel', discovered in the 1820s, has already suffered this fate. Like almost all bananas, it lacks genetic diversity, which makes it vulnerable to diseases, which threaten both commercial cultivation and the small-scale subsistence farming.

Hokay?

[jpak]

36. thanks GG

n/t

[Buzz Clik]

38. No, not hokay.

The Wiki citation doesn't even come close to support your comment, and certainly not your tone.

[GliderGuider]

42. It certainly supports the assertion in the original article.

And according to the same article in Wikipedia, the world production of bananas is 72.5 million tonnes per year. That's not just for dessert - lots of people live on them.

[jpak]

35. Read the OP

Paragraph 3 line 4

[JacksonWest]

11. If bananas are outlawed, only outlaws will have banans.

[GliderGuider]

16. No bananas, no fish, no honey bees...

Is there something going on around here?

[trotsky]

17. Snopes says: FALSE

http://www.snopes.com/food/warnings/bananas.asp

Bananas aren't about to be swept from the face of the earth by a deadly pestilence poised to wipe them out. There are about 300 varieties of the fruit, and the current fear applies to only one of them, the Cavendish. Granted, the Cavendish is our banana of choice, but it isn't the only banana out there. Even if the Cavendish were lost to us, we would still not be singing "Yes, We Have No Bananas."

[IronLionZion]

24. It all depends on how you look at the situation

If the most popular kind of banana is gone from our supermarkets...then it doesn't matter. The other types just aren't as plentiful or as affordable as the Cavendish. While this isn't a problem here in the US. It is a very big deal in countries where they depend on bananas for an affordable nutritious food.

[trotsky]

27. Where did you read that?

"The other types just aren't as plentiful or as affordable as the Cavendish."

Just because the Cavendish is most popular right now doesn't mean another variety couldn't replace it quite easily.

[IronLionZion]

40. The other varieties are not as cost-effective to produce eom

[trotsky]

41. As people most likely said about the Cavendish...

when it replaced the Gros Michel.

On edit: Here's some useful info. http://www.fao.org/english/newsroom/news/2003/13120-en.html
The Cavendish banana is important in world trade, but accounts for only 10 percent of bananas produced and consumed globally, according to FAO.

10 percent. Losing the Cavendish would probably not cause the hardship you seem to think it might. Would probably affect Americans the most, I'd guess.

[IronLionZion]

43. Glad to hear it

I was more worried about the people in Africa and Asia than Americans. Life will find a way.

[Parche]

18. BANANA

What do you get when you put a Banana with 2Kiwi fruit...........................

[bananas]

47. DAIQUIRI

[zbdent]

21. What was that guy blabbering about how the banana was proof of God

and being "the perfect food" ...

:eyes:

[progressoid]

37. You mean this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z-OLG0KyR4

I never know whether to laugh or cry when I see that.

[terip64]

22. kick and recommend

[OneBlueSky]

32. Day-o, day-ay-ay-o . . . Daylight come and me wan go home . . .

The Banana Boat Song (Day-O)

(chorus)
Day-o, day-ay-ay-o
Daylight come and me wan go home
Day, he say day, he say day, he say day-ay-ay-o,
Daylight come and me wan go home

Work all night an drink de rum
Daylight come and me wan go home
Stack banana till de morning come
Daylight come and me wan go home

Come, Mr. Tally Mon, tally me banana
Daylight come and me wan go home
Come, Mr. Tally Mon, tally me banana
Daylight come and me wan go home

It's six foot, seven foot, eight foot bunch!
Daylight come and me wan go home
Six foot, seven foot, eight foot bunch!
Daylight come and me wan go home

(chorus)

A beautiful bunch a'ripe banana
Daylight come and me wan go home
Hide de deadly black tarantula
Daylight come and me wan go home

It's six foot, seven foot, eight foot bunch!
Daylight come and me wan go home
Six foot, seven foot, eight foot bunch!
Daylight come and me wan go home

(chorus)

[bananas]

49. "Work all night an drink de rum"

And what is wrong with that, I ask?

[bananas]

44. I feel that I should say something

but everything I think of which is incisive and on-point,
I'm sure it would be deleted in ten seconds.

[bananas]

48. Darth will be happy to be rid of me.

I can say no more, lest this post be vaporized by Yeti, or Jedi, or something like that.

[bananas]

51. Thanks to google, I shall live on forever

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=opera&rls=en&hs=zI5&q=site%3Ademocraticunderground.com+%22by+bananas%22&btnG=Search

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[Dogmudgeon]

53. It's banana-meister Emile Frison

What's all the brouhaha about here? A couple of people have even gotten quite angry over this. Snopes was cited. Cultural centrism reared its head. Beer was spilled. Doves cried.

I read the original article to see what the matter was.

There was not a formal cite to be found ... but it's a newspaper. Though I despise the petty citation slap-fights that are common on line, I do expect professional journalists to at least provide an audit trail. And then I found the perp -- "Emile Frison, head of the Montpellier-based International Network for the Improvement of Banana and Plantain, told New Scientist magazine ... ".

So I followed the trail on Google with the keywords "banana plantain Frison".

Frison had a nearly identical banana story in 2003. (This is an excellent article, by the way.)

And from 2004, embedded in an article about genetic engineering.

Frison was interviewed by New Scientist about sequencing the banana/plantain genome (2001).

Finally, back to a primal article about Frison from CNN on line in 1998!

Dr. Frison sure knows how to work the media. I can't say I blame him. "Banana boffin briefs stuporous science scribes" is a lot less interesting than "Bananas extinct by 2017! Panicked Monkeys riot in Parliament, demand War on Fungi!"

There are actually hundreds of links about Frison and bananas that Google has cataloged, many of them scientific papers. Most, naturally, are sequestered from the uninitiated eyes of us groundlings by the now-ubiquitous Springer Profitwall. But it is easy to see that Dr. Frison has not shirked in his duty to save the banana.

So, is he just another banana-eating surrender monkey who has fiendishly compelled us to despair over Le Mort aux Bananes, or is he a Mighty Man of Science? I vote for the latter. Anyone who can creatively use bench-jumping to get people to think (or even fight) about issues of science and ecology has my admiration.

Just as long as he doesn't go flinging any poo.

--p!