1,000 megawatts of wind power is on the drawing board in Maine (Portland Press Herald)

[jpak]

Eyesore or cash cow?

http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/news/state/061203wind.html

MARS HILL - The conversation in Mikala Woollard's hair salon these days usually revolves around the windmills.

"I hear both sides of it, all day long," she said.

<snip>

The company and the town negotiated an agreement that gives the wind farm a fixed tax bill -- $500,000 a year for 20 years. That's equal to nearly one-third of the town's total tax revenue -- $1.6 million.

<snip>

A total of about 1,000 megawatts of wind power is on the drawing board in Maine, the equivalent of more than 20 wind farms the size of the one on Mars Hill Mountain, said Beth Nagusky, director of Maine's Office of Energy Independence and Security.

<more>

[NMDemDist2]

1. neither I don't think

but sounds like a plan

they have a bunch of windmills about 50 miles south of here and i know it's been a boon for the county

[jpak]

4. That's only on-shore wind potential - there's much more potential for off-shore wind farms

and tidal and wave power too...

Swell Potential for Maine Ocean Energy

http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=44931

In a one-year study of Maine's tidal power potential, the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) concluded that it provides an excellent resource that could produce electricity at costs competitive with wind and natural gas, and less expensive than solar and so-called "clean coal." And, like wind and solar, capturing energy from the tides emits no greenhouse gases.

"We are excited about the results of this study. Harnessing the energy from Maine's big tides in an environmentally friendly manner will reduce our dependence on imported fossil fuels and will create jobs in the state."

-- Beth Nagusky, Director of the Office of Energy Independence

"Maine has a world-class tidal resource that will produce
electricity at a cost of 4.2 to 6.5 cents per kilowatt-hour," said Roger Bedard, the EPRI study project leader. "This resource is better than many we studied and will produce lower cost electricity as a result."

<more>

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. Yep. It's pretty exciting to think we could be on the cutting edge of

providing clean energy.

[Old and In the Way]

2. jpak...do you have Google Earth?

If so, check out Bingham, Maine north above the Wyman Dam...looks like there are 3 large windfarms operational up there...I didn't know, think I'll take a trip up there to check it out.

I really think this is a creative way for many ME towns to cap their energy costs, as well as building a decentralized energy grid.

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. It works for me. I doubt we'll ever have anything like this in Castine. Heck

you can't even add a deck on some houses here since this is a historic town. But maybe we'll manage to get people to allow and use solar shingles. I mean really, if they allowed historic homes to be shingled with asphalt...

[jpak]

6. I haven't been to Castine in years (had a friend the worked at MMA)

but the Blue Hill area is a hotbed of home PV and other solar systems. The annual Tour of Solar Homes always lists a bunch down that way....

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. Yah and I have yet to go on one of those tours. The former owner of

The Left Bank Cafe put his house on the stop and see list this year.

[jpak]

5. I believe Mars Hill is the first large wind farm in New England

There's a 15 MW wind farm in the works in Freedom - that's the only one I know of near Bingham...

:shrug:

Saco and Eliot is looking into town wind turbines...

http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/08132006/mainenews-13windpower.html

Landfill methane would also be a good source of income for towns that have landfills where this is feasible.

If I had it my way - every school in Maine would be powered by PV and have solar hot water (and maybe pellet furnaces) too...

:hi:

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. Not just schools. Hospitals, town offices and so forth. There is no

excuse here. If the state bought PV shingles in bulk I think we could get a pretty good deal on them. I mean we did it with the light bulbs. This would just be on a slightly larger scale. :P

[Old and In the Way]

10. Never mind....

Turns out it is over-the-horizon backscatter radar system in Moscow. The sites were labeled last time I looked (or if they were, I had the layer turned off)...anyways, I thought I was looking at a line of wind turbines.

[JohnWxy]

19. This is off the subj of this thread but I found your quote VERY INTERESTING:

The Republican Syndicate: Subpoenas issued to the White House between 1995 and 2000 - 1,050. Subpoenas issued to the White House between 2000 and 2005 - 0

[NickB79]

11. So is this 1000 MW, or 1000 mega-"watts"?

In other words, is 1000 MW peak output, or estimated average daily output?

[jpak]

12. A Mega"watt" is not an SI or engineering unit - it is "made up"

and should not be used to ask serious adult questions regarding renewable energy.

[Dead_Parrot]

14. In other words, it's peak

Do I win a cigar? :smoke:

[NickB79]

15. Hence the quotation marks

And asking why renewable energy is almost always published only as peak energy output instead of average energy output is a question all serious adults should ask whenever they see a claim of "1000 MW of new wind power" or "500 MW of new solar power" being installed somewhere in the world.

Since you dodged the question, I can only assume that 1000 MW is peak output instead of average. So, Maine is installing about 200 MW worth of wind power, or only 1/4 to 1/5 the output of a single modern coal-fired or nuclear power plant. Praise the Lord, we're all saved!

[jpak]

16. Wrong - wind turbine capacity factors are ~30% and site dependant

and this does not account for seasonality of wind speeds/duration and power demand in Maine (both are highest in the winter months).

The developers of the Mars Hill wind farm have been hampered by the strong winds they've encountered on the mountain - this bodes well for power output at the site.

Finally, Maine IS saved - unlike coal or nuclear plants, there are no waste or emission issues with wind turbines.

They're every mega"watt" more worthy than either coal plants or nukes...

Gee - how many nuclear power plants have been ordered since 1973?????

None - and Maine Yankee is no more...

[NickB79]

18. Excuse my mistake

Maine is actually installing 300 MW of power, not 200 as I originally thought, or 1/3 the power output of one nuclear or coal plant instead of 1/4. So sorry.

"Gee - how many nuclear power plants have been ordered since 1973?????

None - and Maine Yankee is no more..."

Worldwide over 100 nuclear power plants are either under construction, ordered or being drawn up. Too bad the US isn't as bright as many other nations around the world.

[JohnWxy]

20. AND using the first efforts as a measure of what is possible makes all kinds of sense.

HOw long will it take to build a nuclear plant (assuming of course you already determined a suitable site for long term storage of the radioactive waste - I know nuclearphiles like to put that determination off till later but many people feel that is necessary before you start to build).

BUT, Let's not pretend nuclear is a realistic option. it's not.

Regarding wind power, VRB Power, a Canadian company is building vanadium redox storage 'batteries' for storing power generated by variable power sources. this enables storage of generated power which at times exceeds the demands of the system and dispatching that power when demand exceeds the current ouptput from your generators (in this case wind turbines). THis raises the capacity loading factor for wind turbines.

Even with the added cost of power storage equipment, wind power is still far cheaper than natural gas.

[jpak]

22. Stop making sense John

This year, the US will install 3000 mega"watts" of wind capacity and ZERO "MEGA"watts of new nuclear capacity.

But if Dick Cheney has his way, the US will build 6000 mega"watts" of new nuclear capacity by 2030.

If annual US wind power installations remained **flat**, however, the US will deploy a **minimum** 72,000 mega"watts" of new wind turbine capacity over the same period.

The renewables haters can whine away for all I care...

:evilgrin:

[NickB79]

25. And worldwide nuclear production will outpace wind

As I said, there are over 100 nuclear plants in some phase of construction or development WORLDWIDE. Perhaps you didn't realize that global warming is a global issue, but dozens of other countries have, and have decided to invest in nuclear power.'

Just because the US is only planning on 6 nuclear power plants doesn't change the fact that other countries have more forethought than us.

[jpak]

26. Sorry - in development = a lot of talk - many of those will not be built

...and it doesn't account for nuclear plant retirements over the next 20 years.

Note: over 110 nuclear power plants were canceled in the US over the last 40 years - one must not count one's chickens etc...

Globally, only 27 new nuclear plants are actually under construction today.

Global wind capacity is growing at 43% per year - with 11.8 GW installed last year alone.

If global wind capacity additions remained **flat** 236 GW of new wind capacity will come on line over the next 20 years - (that's 70 giga"watts").

If global wind capacity grew at only 10% per year over the next 20 years, that would be 675 GW or 203 giga"watts" of new wind capacity.

Wind power will out-pace nuclear anyway you cut it.

So I'm not worried at all...

:evilgrin:

[JohnWxy]

27. "in 'some phase' of construction OR development"?? - what does that mean.

Planning is a long way from actual construction. Also, how much of the funding lined up is private capital and now much is public funds. Unless I'm wrong, virtually all the funds committed or anticipated will come from governmnents. Their is a good reason for this. Private funders want proof that you've got a practical project that won't lose money. Without government help (and this is after about 50 years of trying to make nuclear power practical) nuclear power would be dead. It seems like even with assertions that the problems (which keep cropping up) have been solved, new problems keep raising their ugly heads. I understand the optimism of true believers ("I know we can make this work. I just KNOW it!")but you need to recognize when you are still in the R&D stage and not ready for prime time (i.e. full commercial-production scale ).

Right now wind power year to year growth is being held back by the fact that wind turbine production capacity of manufacturers is not equal tothe demand for wind turbines. Wind turbine manufacturers are adding capacity as fast as they can. (GE is expanding something like 65% to capacity) When this capacity comes on line, roughly during 2007 through 2008 the growth in wind power will increase.

Of course, as wind turbine manufacturers start producing at higher volumes, efficiency gains will bring down prices making wind power even more attractive and increasing demand again.

Eventually, wind farm projects will be allowed to enjoy financing arrangements similar to those utilities enjoy when building gas fired and coal fired power plants. The reduction in cost? - ABOUT 30%! At that point demand for wind power will take a jump again.

We are about to see wind power installations really take off. This is a good thing. Not only does it mean power without GHG but it will be cheaper power. As time goes by it will only become even cheaper as fossil fuels prices continue to climb.

[jpak]

13. Coming on-line this December - College of the Atlantic can then purchase Maine

generated wind power...

[amandabeech]

17. Is there any news on electric energy storage technologies?

n/t

[JohnWxy]

21. HEre is link to VRB Power, who makes vanadium storage systems. This technology is scalable and

economical and environmentally friendly.

http://www.vrbpower.com/publications/casestudies.html

[jpak]

24. Maine has a lot of hydroelectric and wood-fired capacity to manage wind power output

Existing Maine hydro plants could produce power when wind output is low and store water when wind generation peaks (and some could be used to balance tidal power output too).

Currently idle biomass plants (there were a small number that shut down as a result of Maine's deregulation of its electricity market) could also be used as intermittent generators to balance grid wind loads.

MW scale flywheel storage systems exist today that could rapid respond to variation in wind fasrm power output...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=115&topic_id=65173

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=115&topic_id=55340

In Maine at least, most the elements needed for a manageable All-Renewable grid exist today...without the need for any exotic energy storage systems.

[JohnWxy]

28. interesting links. I'm for whatever works, and is most economical long term.

Is this feasible for longer term discharge, like several hours?

[GliderGuider]

23. Canada is on track for a record year for wind power in 2006

We will install over 650 MW of nameplate capacity this year, bringing out total installed base to almost 1400 MW. The previous record year was 2005, with 240 MW of installed capacity. Now this is only nameplate capacity, so figure on 25% of that power actually being produced. Still, that's 350 MW of actual power production, which is pretty good this early in the game.