Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Florida county plans to vaporize landfill trash

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Environment/Energy Donate to DU
 
YankeyMCC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 06:12 AM
Original message
Florida county plans to vaporize landfill trash
(snip)
FORT PIERCE, Fla. (AP) — A Florida county has grand plans to ditch its dump, generate electricity and help build roads — all by vaporizing garbage at temperatures hotter than the sun.

The $425 million facility expected to be built in St. Lucie County will use lightning-like plasma arcs to turn trash into gas and rock-like material. It will be the first such plant in the nation operating on such a massive scale and the largest in the world.

Supporters say the process is cleaner than traditional trash incineration, though skeptics question whether the technology can meet the lofty expectations.
(snip)

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-09-09-fla-county-trash_x.htm

Later in the article they give the critics view. The Global Alliance for Incinerator Alternatives says the company is lying about the cleanliness of the emissions.

And I have to admit this sounds to good to be true so I'm sure there's something the proponents are leaving out or deemphasizing. But it still might be viable as this quote expresses well I think:

Louis Circeo, director of Georgia Tech's plasma research division, said that as energy prices soar and landfill fees increase, plasma-arc technology will become more affordable.

Any of our good experts here have experience in or have researched this plasma idea in detail?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. Does the process produce large quantities of ozone? Lightning
...and air produces ozone. I am no scientist so I was just wondering if ozone would be a by-product and as such might help replace what is used up in the upper ozone layer? Or will it introduce additional pollutants into the air?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I'm no scientist, either, but...
it occurred to me, years ago, that we could produce ozone and it would migrate to the upper atmosphere and help repair the ozone layer.

Then I read something that said that's not a workable plan. The ozone would not migrate and it would produce terrible pollution at the earth's surface. So much for that idea.

Sorry, I can't remember where I read that or what the scientific explanation is. Maybe one of the scientists here can explain it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
2. Incineration Repackaged and the New Alchemy of Garbage....
http://www.mindfully.org/Air/2002/Incineration-RepackagedJul02.htm

PYROLYSIS AND GASIFICATION

Two other technologies being promoted as clean alternatives to typical trash incinerators are pyrolysis and gasification. Pyrolysis is a thermal destruction process that burns waste in the absence of oxygen. A plasma arc is often used to generate the heat at high temperatures. This process produces a mixture of gases, liquids and solids, some of which will include toxic chemicals depending on the make-up of the original waste mixtures. With household trash, the emissions and solid residuals can be expected to include heavy metals, dioxins, and other contaminants typically found when household trash is burned.

Gasification is a similar thermal destruction process, only in this case small amounts of oxygen are present during the heating process, which also occurs at high temperatures. In this process, often called "starved-air gasification," a gaseous mixture is produced that will again include toxic chemicals depending on the make-up of the original waste mixture. If household trash is gasified, emissions will again include heavy metals, dioxins, and other contaminants.

Both of these technologies are considered to be in the developmental stage with regard to their application to household trash. As a practical matter, the health and environmental concerns that these processes raise seem no different than if the waste were burned in a traditional incinerator. With both of these systems, toxic gases are formed during the treatment process that are similar to those found during the combustion of household trash in a traditional incinerator and are released out a stack. Some—but not all—of these emissions may be captured by pollution control equipment. With pyrolysis, solid residue remaining after the treatment may contain toxic chemicals similar to those found in ash from traditional incineration.


http://www.sierraclubcalifornia.org/alchemyofgarbage.shtml
THE NEW ALCHEMY OF GARBAGE

By Bill Magavern

No one likes trash landfills. They often smell bad, attract pests, and leak toxins into the environment. To reduce the need for such unwanted facilities, Sierra Club has long supported waste reduction, reuse, materials recovery and composting, and has opposed trash incineration because of its adverse effects on our air, water and health.

Now some companies and government officials are once again touting technological solutions to California’s solid waste problems. These advocates claim that what they call “conversion technologies” can keep our garbage out of landfills and turn it into useful products. Clearly, anyone who could turn trash into gold would become as popular as medieval alchemists. But, as Californians Against Waste puts it, “Conversion Technologies (CT) is an unfortunate euphemism that refers to an unconstructively broad spectrum of real and theoretical waste management technologies that range from relatively benign organics composting-like facilities to environmentally dangerous and economically dubious incinerator-like facilities that ‘cook’ garbage at temperatures up to 7,000ƒ F and have been found to produce dioxins, one of the most carcinogenic substances known to humankind.”

Indeed, controversy has surrounded the high-heat technologies, like gasification, pyrolysis and plasma arc, because of concerns that their emissions will pose the same kind of health threats as those created by solid waste incinerators, including the emission of toxins that cause cancer and reproductive and developmental damage. For this reason, community groups have opposed a number of facilities that would “cook” garbage and convert it into saleable commodities like electricity and liquid transportation fuels. Recycling advocates have also expressed concerns that development of large, expensive trash-cooking facilities would detract from ongoing efforts to reduce, reuse, and recycle (the “3Rs”) more of California’s solid waste.

Sierra Club California has kept an open mind to the possibility that new technologies could reduce the need for landfills, but we insist that these technologies not emit poison into our air or water and not interfere with the 3Rs. During the three-plus years that the issue has been debated in the Legislature, our mantra has been “show us the emissions data.” Without credible, verifiable real-world data on the effect that gasification and pyrolysis facilities have on our air and water, we can not support any policies that would favor or subsidize such plants. Although the companies selling the products have often promised that such evidence was imminently forthcoming, they have yet to actually present it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
3. They had better force them to produce a EIS!
They will try to avoid it at all costs. There are a number of nasty gaseous by products released by this process which are apparently OK by the new relaxed (nonexistent) EPA standards. Plasma is great for cutting metal, I am dubious if it is so great for reducing trash. It has a spotty history reducing the nerve gas on Hawaii, it is very unreliable and has poor time on line.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Environment/Energy Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC