Why do we hate solar power?????

[jpak]

I have this "friend" - I think he's a Democrat.

:shrug:

He's hatin' solar energy ever since he got that sunburn.

He says that solar energy is for rich assholes and hippies with pony tails and that solar power is killing his childrens every day.

I'm paranoid and uneducated. What are the pros and cons of solar power????

:sarcasm:

[eallen]

1. How is it killing his children?

Did he drop a solar panel on one of his kids, while installing it on the roof?

My pony tail disappeared a long time back.

:hippie:

[Deja Q]

2. From what I know

Pros:
* Cheap once the initial cost is paid for
* renewable
* Doesn't generate radiant heat when converting light to energy

Cons:
* Upfront cost is expensive
* Only works during daylight; batteries would be needed to supplant energy as needed; and it takes oil to make those too
* Still takes a lot to convert sunlight into energy

[skids]

3. Umm... sarcasm tags?

You'll wish you did if you wait until the editing deadline expires. :-)

[jpak]

5. That better???

:hi:

[Solo_in_MD]

4. LOL great take off on the Nuke thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x63698

Don't know anyone who hates solar, but there are enough of us there who realize that it, wind, and other renewables can never be enough to supply all of our needs.

[jpak]

6. Sorry - couldn't resist

:evilgrin:

[msongs]

8. you gonna support your claim with facts? nt

[unpossibles]

26. I don't believe it "can never be enough"

according to what, exactly? i am curious, and I think that is short sighted. Yes, I think there are needs that would be harder to meet that way, especially in transportation, I don't think of it as impossible. Already there have been drastic improvements in solar power efficiency, both in panel construction and in power loss - why assume it (along with wind and sea and other renewables) can't eventually do the job?

[jpak]

28. "Solar energy don't work" - it's the 4th Law of Thermodynamics ya know

The National Academies of Science and Engineering said so.

There are mountains of peer reviewed research that prove - without a doubt - it can't work.

And it can never never never under any circumstances produce a mystical mythical ex-o-joule of energy.

And millions of people with solar panels on their roof freeze to death in the dark every night.

Solar energy is killing the planet - that's why we hate it.

There, I said it, so it's true...

:P

[unpossibles]

30. hahaha... good point..

....

why bother trying something at all? I mean, man wasn't meant to fly either, and that would never work, so it's a good thing we stopped that foolishness.

[WhiteTara]

7. does he place his children's fingers into the light

socket? What an ignorant person. I lived "off the grid" for 10 years. I supplied my electricity from the sun, I maintained my own roads, heated my home with a catalytic wood stove (to burn the particulates very very fine for less polution) and my water came from the spring on my property.

My life was fairly normal, except to run my dishwasher and clothes washer, I needed to do those things during the day when the sun was charging the batteries and had excess to support the heavier loads.

I watched television for only about an hour a day, but used my computer for far more.

My favorite part was the absolute silence. There was no humming of electric wires. My refrigerator was propane and so was my electronic switch on demand hot water heater. Of course the other was that I had no utility bills except for an occasional tank of propane for the back up systems and fridge.

The other wonderful thing was that I never was out of power when everyone's PG&E was down.

You have to be able to see the world differently to use solar because when you turn on the switch you have to think, how many watt hours does this consume so that you don't overuse your batteries and then really have to sit in the dark.

Republican's view of American Values is making money so most people think it is too everything bad and not enough of anything good.

[rosesaylavee]

9. There are two kinds of solar

one that supplies electrical service to your home/business and is very expensive at this point in time tho the technology is gradually improving.

And, one that heats your home and your water heater - that is more affordable and in the wonderful state of Illinois, there are grants available to purchase these improvements for your home.

However, neither can supply 100% of your energy needs... yet.

Your friend sounds misinformed or is pulling your leg ... not sure how he got a sunburn from solar energy.

[silverweb]

10. We shouldn't.

Solar power is something that we have the technology to use well, with improving technology being developed all the time.

Your friend's attitude is based on pure ignorance. We have altered the layers of Earth's atmosphere with our pollution and have destroyed some of its protective effects. Despite that, common sense sun-protective measures can protect against sunburn and skin cancers.

In the meantime, check _this_ out! Solar concentrators, "which have been used for years in satellites," some "capable of achieving a sunlight concentration equivalent to hundreds of suns" are able to make solar energy collection for our use many, many times more efficient than we've known.

There is no reason that we cannot use solar energy to a much greater extent. We have the technology. We just lack government backing and the political will to use it to its fullest.

On edit: Add _this_ to the mix and we'd be sitting pretty. I truly believe that if we used the technology we already have and had government-backed financing for production and implementation, we could completely replace polluting fossil fuels for our energy needs.

[mitchtv]

11. I love it, to bad I can't afford $25K to install

I did good on my electric bill this past July, only $300. Seriously, it's just too expensive

[jpak]

12. For ~$10K you could cut your non-heating+AC electrical needs substantially

Refrigerators and hot water heaters are the largest consumers of electricity in US homes (800-1500 kWh/year and 4500-5500 kWh/year, respectively).

Energy Star refrigerators use less than 400 kWh per year (cost = $650-1100)

This could be supplied by a single plug-and-play Blue Link 480 watt PV system
(Cost = $4800 before any state and federal rebates and tax credits).

http://www.bluelinksolar.net/fmain.html

Solar hot water heaters cost between $3-5000 (again before any rebates or tax credits).

No need to buy a $25K PV system - there are lots other options with solar energy that could save you money (and which could be purchased incrementally too...)

[mitchtv]

18. $9.72 for gas last month

the water(gas) is hot without help (heater is in the garage 120+) so don't need a water heater little heat is necessary in winter EQ is all new. The smaller systems don't seem worth it.I don't do debt.

[jpak]

20. but $300 a month for AC is OK???

:shrug:

Over a ten year period that's $9000 (assuming $300/mo for June, July and August). You could get a 1 kW PV system that would shave lot of that load for $9000.

To each his own I guess...

[hunter]

13. $300???? Is that air conditioning?

I try to keep my entire utility bill under $120, even though it's not easy with teenagers.

Get out of the shower! Turn out the lights! Turn off the television, Close the windows! Don't stare into the refrigerator, What's this? #$&* I find three items of clothing in the washing machine set "hot-full-double rinse..."

[jpak]

14. A DUer from CA recently complained about a $750 power bill

Now that takes some doin'.

[hunter]

15. Pacific Gas & Electric Rates...

At almost 35 cents a kilowatt hour it's not too hard if you have a big leaky house to cool.

Total Energy Rates ($ per kWh)

Baseline Usage $0.11430
101% - 130% of Baseline $0.12989
131% - 200% of Baseline $0.21981 (R)
201% - 300% of Baseline $0.30292 |
Over 300% of Baseline $0.34648 (R)

(Baseline is 10-15 kW/h daily, depending where you live.)

[Kolesar]

16. What does your data table mean?

Does that mean that the electric company changes the rate per kilowatt of electricity? (With increased use?)

[hunter]

21. Yeah, the more you use the more it costs you.

If you don't use a lot of electricity, you don't have to pay for the most expensive sources of electricity; in the case of PG&E that would be electricity from their less efficient natural gas fueled power plants.

[jpak]

19. Holy Cow! $0.35 per kWh????

A few kW of PV on the roof would solve that problem...

:)


(or maybe some attic insulation and a fan, or some Energy Star windows)

[bananas]

22. We're still paying for Enron

First article at http://www.oregonlive.com/special/enron/

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/business/1142999749123620.xml&coll=7

http://www.oregonlive.com/printer/printer.ssf?/base/business/1142999749123620.xml&coll=7

Millions in PGE tax payments still flow to Enron
Bankruptcy - The parent company's debts will offset any tax obligation, sending the money collected to creditors
Wednesday, March 22, 2006
GAIL KINSEY HILL
The Oregonian

Even after several years of blistering debate -- and a new utility tax law -- centering on Portland General Electric's income tax expenses, the utility has continued to send regular multimillion-dollar tax checks to its now-bankrupt parent, Enron.
...
PGE covers its income tax expenses through ratepayer charges of roughly $90 million annually. The charge is embedded in rates; it doesn't appear as a specific line item on customers' bills.
...
"To a lot of people, it's a shock that even today it's still going on," said Kathleen Gardipee, a spokeswoman for Portland City Commissioner Erik Sten.
...
Leonard's response: "I don't trust them, I don't believe them, I don't think they're telling the truth."
...

[hunter]

24. That was Arnold's job in California, to cover up all this shit.

:grr:

[mitchtv]

17. I live in the desert

July should've been the worst. As it is we operate the AC manually and turn it off all night. the pool pump costs a lot too. I wash clothes every two weeks.

[hunter]

23. Pool pumps are pretty easy to deal with...

If you don't have one, variable speed pumps and sophisticated controllers are worth looking at.

You only need maximum circulation when the pool is used heavily. When it's not being used so much you can reduce energy use substantially.

http://www.pge.com/docs/pdfs/res/rebates/pumps_motors/06MultiSpdPPMFSv2.pdf

[mitchtv]

25. In the 90's at midnite around here

we keep it at 80

[phantom power]

27. I don't avoid solar power, Mandrake...but I do deny it my essence.

[jpak]

29. ...

:toast: