Solar Generator.. 1500 watts.. portable.. w/ battery

[oscar111]

Sounds great.

Anyone know if it is true to the ad? ie, does it work as advertized?

would end the current problem of air pollution which comes now from gas geerators during blkouts.
Also would end the problem of no gas to be had , which oft happens.

http://www.solarsense.com/Products/1-Complete_Systems/3-NOMAD_1500/NOMAD_1500.html

[skids]

1. That's 1500 Watts on the inverter.

As priced, the actual panels that feed the system are only 32 Watts.

Basically that means you can run up to 1500 Watts off the battery but without additional panels the battery will take a very long time to charge.

They fail to specify the Watt-hour capacity of the pack -- you could get that by researching the subproduct. IIRC those wheel-arounds are lead-acid, so expect up to 40% system energy loss from panel to appliance.

I would be leary of this package, personally.

[Solo_in_MD]

19. It is pretty weak, but may be adequate for some situations

It sure won't run the frig or microwave for very long. A smaller generator and a couple of jerry cans of gas make much more sense. However, you have to maintain the engine and rotate the fuel. Many people, espcially in an urban environment, may not be up to that.

[notadmblnd]

2. I have no idea

I bought a gasoline powered generator after my husband died from heart failure due to complications with pneumonia when we lost power for a week in 2003. Had a transfer switch with four circuits installed to complete it, then I saw natural gas powered ones about a month later. A solar powered generator would be great, especially if it is quiet. It would be worth having more circuits installed and getting completely off the power grid.

[cosmik debris]

3. Read the usage/run time link.

It doesn't sound that good to me.

[oscar111]

5. anyone else? great replies so far, thanks to you tekkies!!

nt.

[FloridaPat]

4. Looks interesting. Too bad they don't have the prices on the site.

Hope someone here knows something about it.

[oscar111]

6. "75 amp hours"... what's that in terms of running a ninehundred watt

appliance? about five hours?

[skids]

7. At what voltage? 12? 24?

Multiply amp hours by system voltage, then divide by 900W.

[oscar111]

11. skids, site only said amphours.. sorry.

maybe more is hidden in the tekk page they link at the site, but i did not go there yet.

Skid, you seem to be a highly tek sort of guy... does any company sell better batteries than lead,... eg lithium.. that could be used to run ninehundred watts for an hour or so, 110 volts?

thank you big time,
oscar

[skids]

18. Depends on your objective...

Lead acid batteries are the cheapest Wh/$ wise, however:

. They wear out faster and are easier to damage by overcharging/overcycling
. They waste a large amount of the energy that you put into charging them
. They don't last as long shelf-storage-wise as some of the alternatives

NiCad is a dead end at this point -- NiMH is better in all respects.

NiMH is the current technology of choice, but it's a bit difficult to get big batteries, and they self-discharge so if your objective is to store power for long periods of time they are not the right choice.

Li-ion and Li-poly is even harder to find in big battery formats. They are extremely efficient and powerful and don't self-discharge much, but also very easy to damage and wear out over time whether or not you use them.

The new nano-sulphate Li-ion are the best of all worlds (hard to damage, long life both when used and when not used, very efficient) but are currently very expensive and only available in application-specific formats, which right now is only include power tools (The new DeWalt 36V ones) and RC hobby cars. If you really knew what you were doing you could probably hook up a bunch of DeWalt 36V power tool packs together to get that -- it wouldn't be cheap but it would last. Unfortunately that would require a bit more skill/training than most people have.

So I guess it really depends on your cash flow and how often you intend to cycle the battery. If it's not something you'd be doing daily or more, lead acid would be a good bet. If you intend to use this as a night-time store that gets drained every night, I'd seriously try and factor in how long the batteries will last and the cost of the wasted power.

[oscar111]

24. wow, thanks for the class on batteries!

you really know this stuff!

i asked, because i heard on the radio of a new "tesla" elec car, which now has Li batteries.

surely a big power application.

eighty thou for the car. Some sold as the version ... version signature.. bells and whistles... to a hundred afficianadoes.

[skids]

25. Yeah, Saphion and M1 batteries are the ones to watch right now.

...unless EEStor actually starts churning out ultracaps, the action in advanced power storage is with Valance (Saphion) and A123 systems (M1), and perhaps in a year or two for non-automotive applications, Beacon power's flywheel system.

If they weren't still so expensive, they'd be the answer to many, many problems. As it is, even with the expense they still have an important role to play.

Anyway, if all you want is something for weekend use or camping or stuff like that, a lead-acid system should do you fine service -- just do yourself a favor and oversize the batteries -- they last much longer if you only give them light use. And never store them uncharged for long periods of time.

[oscar111]

26. THanks!!! and ...

how many hours do you think a great lead battery , well charged up, would run an appliance that is alter current, 110 volts, nine hundred watts?

either a standard car battery w/ inverter, or truck size batt, or some more rare size lead battery, like that rollaround on the site for the Nomad?

Or, several together?
Or, batteries used by solar roofs to hold power for a whole house at night?

thank you to the third gerneration of your offspring,

oscar

[skids]

27. Well, if we look at a top-of-the-line glass mat lead acid...

...a "deep cycle" marine battery, like this one:

http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?p=SLA-LS-2700

(no product endorsement implied, this is just a representative of its class)

It's a 12V battery at 79Ah slow discharge (which is 948Wh). You get a bit less if you are discharging it fast. So let's say we have two of them and discharge them fast enough to get 900W for one hour. We'll assume the inverter has an efficiency of 90%, so we need in the area of 1KWh for the 900W appliance. That would be a depth-of-discharge (DoD) of 55% to 70% on the batteries, fudging it for lots of variables, which is a little on the abusive side, but these are batteries designed with abuse in mind. The stats say that at 100% DoD they will last 400 cycles. With 50-75% they will last a lot longer, especially if they are charged immediately after use. Draining these batteries at that rate, though, is playing it close to the edge.

If you had four of these batteries instead of two, that would be 25-35% DoD, and the draining rate would be more sane. The batteries would last much longer still. You might also be able to get away with some cheaper batteries that aren't as deep-cycle if you were at that DoD. In any case the batteries will take between 10 and 16 hours to charge up.

Now the real question -- does your appliance really use 900W, or is that just the amount it uses when it starts, stops or endures some sort of stress. I suggest buying one of these because they are cheap and very handy to have:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0001EY6P0/103-3921442-2598235?v=glance&n=228013

Use it to get a better idea of what your appliance actually draws.

[Sven77]

34. P3 International P4400 Kill A Watt - Free Ground Shipping

Sale Price: $23.50

P4400 Kill A Watt

im thinking of buying one of these. can give you a better idea of how much power you need for each appliance.

[jpak]

13. The Nomad 1500 starts at ~$1200

It's on my hurricane survival to-buy list.

[speedoo]

8. Solar panel prices have been coming down.

If I owned my own home, I would be doing some serious research toward installing a solar power system. Solar panels on roof, feeding a bank of batteries inside, with a regulator and ability to switch to a generator in emergencies. The solar panels would be the primary power source, generator is backup. Maybe add some wind generation capability as well to supplement the solar.

Based on my current knowledge, I believe a very good system with the elements I've mentioned could be installed for under $10k.

One way or another, I expect to be installing such a system either in my own home or on a liveaboard sailboat within 5 years.

[skids]

9. As far as the waiting game goes...

Solar prices are now stable (if you adjust for the plummeting value of the dollar), and it will probably take a year or so for them to start falling signifigantly. So it's probably worth it to just buy in now since during that year the system will be saving in power.

However, if you are a home owner and have not yet done solar hot water, you are best off doing that first, and looking at PV after that is done.

[speedoo]

12. ot sure I agree with you on this...

"However, if you are a home owner and have not yet done solar hot water, you are best off doing that first, and looking at PV after that is done."

I think I would agree with your appraoch only if the ultimate bank of solar panels can all be interconnected so that it ends up being one system that provides both hot water and AC power.

But I'm far from an expert on this so I'd like to hear your response. Also can you provide any links for further research.. thanks!!

[skids]

21. Solar thermal panels...

...don't generate electricity, they take in heat. Solar PV panels currently only convert 10 to 25% of the light energy into electricity, whereas solar heat panels can convert 80% or more of it into heat.

Economics wise, solar thermal systems pay back their installation cost in under 5 years, at current prices. PV panels pay back their electricity costs in between 5 and 15 years.

This site can help you do the math: http://findsolar.com

[speedoo]

22. Thanks.

Bookmarked for future research.

[SaneInSC]

10. Same

I've begun looking at more and more options as well for alt. power. Its free after the startup cost..and it will give a big UPYOURS to the not so friendly energy companies.

I suspect we don't see more of this due at least in part to the same reason we can't get cheaper Canadian drugs or even negotiate prices on them.

I can't wait to go SOLAR! Also, I recall that the guys who created Google have bought into/started a solar panel/research company, so I think things are moving in the right direction, albeit too slowly.

[Massacure]

29. Average prices have ben going up since May of 2004 actually.

http://www.solarbuzz.com/Moduleprices.htm

The cheapest right now is a RWE 250 watt panel for $1089, or $4.36 a watt

[cornermouse]

14. On the news this morning.

http://www.zeroenergyhomedallas.com/

also

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5930839/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8852127/site/newsweek/

http://www.eere.energy.gov/buildings/building_america/pdfs/29915_zeb_path.pdf

[oscar111]

16. My solar generator not on this link, right? i not find it

but thanks anyway for those who want to learn of solar houses using other sources of elect.

[cornermouse]

23. Its an alternative that was on this morning.

I've been thinking about going solar again for quite some time. As a passive solar heating source 15 - 20 years ago, it worked very very well.

Also I replied to the wrong post. But whatever.

[sce56]

15. Solar works great but is very expensive! Guess who owns the industry?

I have to say that solar power is great but until we get the scoundrels in the oil companies out of the solar buisness the cost will remain high.
Where I work, a Geothermal Power Plant, we have a remote entry site that has a solar powered gate. It has a high maintenance load as we have to constantly add water to the batteries every week and a backup generator for when the batteries get low during the night. Having worked with power generators for most of my life I tried to get a job with the solar panel manufactures a few years ago and I found out that most of them were oil companies like Shell and BP. I guess if you control the market you can keep the cost's high so as to discourage people from weaning themsevles from your best money maker Oil. I have no detailed facts to support this just a gut feeling and like Colbert I trust my gut feelings! Go to
http://www.solarexpert.com/ for ways to compute your power requirments and get an idea how much it will cost.

[WhiteTara]

20. I live in the no.California

where there are many companies that are small independents who install solar systems for countries around the world. The most exciting company in the US is
http://www.bigfrogmountain.com/powerfilmsolarproducts.htm

Imagine taking paper-thin plastic film and making it generate electrical power again and again. That’s PowerFilm ®.


take heart

[WhiteTara]

17. Wow What a neat unit!

It didn't give pricing, but what a compact system. It has everything you need to keep you running. One caveat of course, solar only works when there is sunlight. If it is raining, you get MAYBE 20% charging over the course of a 5 hour day, so you would have only enough for a small something for a short while. But if it has snowed, just wipe the snow away and it will allow for the sun to charge (ANY shadow will reduce the charging capacity enormously.

Real Goods has an incredible selection of books on the subject and probably this company does too. I don't know this brand, but the way they put the array together is very nice and the fact that you can extend is great, because we always underestimate our energy consumption. And you're right, this puts no pollution in the air.

Good luck!

[Ready4Change]

31. Recent PV panels handle shade better.

Many of the newer panels handle partial shade better now. Used to be if any part of the panel was shaded, NONE of it would produce power. Many newer panels just loose what the shaded portion would have generated in sun.

[WhiteTara]

33. glad to know the technology is improving

I loved being energy independent.

[hunter]

28. My figuring is that this is a temporary kind of setup.

The weak link is the lead-acid battery.

I'm connected to the grid, but I have a few solar panels, charge controllers, and inverters that are used for other things. In a power outage I can reconfigure everything quickly using the batteries in my cars to provide some short term emergency power.

Lead-acid car batteries, and even deep cycle batteries, are not a good choice for permanent use, since their production and recycling is tremendously toxic to the environment, especially when this dirty business is exported to other nations with lax environmental standards. Lead causes brain damage, and people end up stupid, which is a very bad thing as people are hardly intelligent enough to maintain a civilized society as we have it.

But I have batteries anyways, and that's just the way it is, even though I won't buy more.

If you are going to use batteries here's something to look at that has a bit more to it than the system you posted:

http://www.realgoods.com/renew/shop/product.cfm/dp/4100/sd/4105/ts/4530108



http://www.realgoods.com

Lots of people are selling similar systems.

[Ready4Change]

30. 1 x 32watt solar panel isn't much.

That single panel will take a long time to recharge the battery. And a 60amp hour battery is basically a car battery. That won't hold enough charge to run anything big for very long.

It might be enough for some minor creature comforts over a power outage. Maybe a little light, or Some radio or a portable TV, or a laptop. Not a fridge, at least not for long enough to help much.

Consider what your usage is really likely to be. If you just want some light or music during a few hours of power outage, this might do the trick. You might forego the PV panels and add another battery, charging both off grid power during good times.

To tell the truth, I've been thinking of cobbling together a similar system of a PV panel, charge controller, battery and inverter. But I'm doing it as a tinkering experiment. I don't have any illusions about it saving me during an outage. I'm thinking I can do it far cheaper, but it won't look nearly so nice, nor be so mobile.

[hunter]

32. Ice in a refrigerator is cheaper than car sized batteries.

Put some jugs of water around the perimeter of your freezer. The food starts going bad when the last of this ice melts, but before that happens, share it.

It's hard to say what will happen to me and my family when the next big earthquake or civil war strikes, but most of our neighbors are pretty good people, so we should do okay.