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Oerdin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 06:38 PM
Original message
Let's be intellectually honest.
Let's face it; even if Chimp did it this is a good thing. Today President Bush signed a presidential order which turned the northwestern portion of the Hawaiian Islands into a National Monument and Marine Sanctuary. This means that an area the size of Montana has now been completely protected from commercial and recreational fishing and that numerous, highly valuable, tropical islands are now protected against virtually all development. This area has been recognized as special for a very long time; Teddy Roosevelt and this area a wildlife refuge while Bill Clinton named it a national coral reef reserve.

Here is NPR’s report: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5488173

I don’t like giving Chimp props either but if we are intellectually honest we will put our partisanship aside and cheer the good things Chimp does as well as the boo the bad. This is honestly a very good thing and I’m left scratching my head way no one has bothered to make a thread about this.
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Ringo84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Re:
I agree. But why wouldn't the Republicans care about ANWAR?
Ringo
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. no oil in Hawaii. nt
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Ringo84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Good point n/t
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. I think this is likely the bottom line.
And the press whore that he is, Bush will take every opportunity to show how concerned he is about the environment. He expects everyone to forget all the raping he's already done.

Too little, too late, Bush.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yeah, it's a good thing.
However, I can't help but think there's an underlying, sinister reason he did it. Gotta be more to it that hasn't been revealed yet. Forgive my cynicism, but after 5 years of lies and doublespeak, I can't help it.

We'll see. ;-)
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. I'm with you. On the face, this is a good thing. I just feel that
there must be more than meets the eye, because this is really out of character for Bush.
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Probably some kind of land/development deal.

...but I'll take the table scraps and be happy with them in this case.

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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
4. BUT! Was there a signing statement?????
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
6. And the signing statement sez "Unless we find oil there."
.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. I'll never own real estate in that neighborhood.
'd be interesting to see who does.

They ARE selling the rest of our Parks.
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Oerdin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. They certainly aren't protecting our parks.
Edited on Thu Jun-15-06 06:59 PM by Oerdin
I agree that the Republican Congress as well as this administration certainly has not been protecting our parks. They've also opened up our parks to a lot of for profit businesses who have changed the nature of the national park system in a negative way further more the excess usage charges for entering our national parks and national forests has made visiting our public lands to expensive for many, many families. I boo that just as I boo making citizens pay to enter parks which are supposed to belong to the people.

That said I do think the creation of the world's largest protected marine sanctuary is worth cheering. It probably is nothing more then the GOP attempting to position themselves for the coming midterm election but at least a larger portion of this country's wild places is now protected. At the end of the day this is a good thing.
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matt819 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
9. Someone should read the entire proposed bill
Edited on Thu Jun-15-06 06:54 PM by matt819
The Great Leader does not have epiphanies and does not give sops to his opponents. Apart from the no oil in Hawaii issue, there is undoubtedly an ulterior motive. Find it.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I agree, there must be a scheme here
Edited on Thu Jun-15-06 07:03 PM by Canuckistanian
Maybe he's planning to declare more park lands - then, when all park land is "privatized", the Bush regime can control who gets to buy it.

Or something like that.

I don't buy the story that he's suddenly concerned with conservation.
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Look for...
planned communities for the wealthy ajoining.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. It's designed to quash the Hawaiian Independance movement.
Bet on it.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
13. Let's wait for the other shoe to drop
Before drawing conclusions.

Past historyindicates this is a set up.

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
17. It may be academic, anyway
Edited on Thu Jun-15-06 09:35 PM by hatrack
As I posted in GD earlier today, I can't condemn this decision, even though it immediate sets one emotion on high boil - suspicion - and I can't think of a better indication as to how fucked up things are when the first emotion the declaration of a National Monument arouses is suspicion.

More fundamentally, if you've been following the scientific news on how rapidly the Pacific Ocean is acidifying, it may be all for nought anyway.

I'm including the following in its entirety since it's a government press release:

April 5, 2006 — Data collected from ocean sampling in the Pacific Ocean from the southern to northern hemispheres confirms that the oceans are becoming more acidic. A recently completed field study from Tahiti to Alaska collecting data about the effects of ocean acidification on the water chemistry and marine organisms found evidence that verifies earlier computer model projections. These findings are consistent with data from previous field studies conducted in other oceans. (Click NOAA image for larger view of a swimming pteropod, Limacina helicina. These free-swimming planktonic molluscs form a calcium carbonate shell made of aragonite. They are an important food source for juvenile North Pacific salmon and also are eaten by mackerel, herring and cod. Click here for high resolution version. Please credit “NOAA.”)

"We observed measurable decreases in pH, a measure of the acidity of the water, as well as measurable increases in dissolved inorganic carbon over a large section of the northeastern Pacific," said Richard Feely, an oceanographer with the NOAA Pacific Marine Environmental Laboratory in Seattle, Wash., and chief scientist aboard the field study.

The preliminary results from NOAA scientists and their academic colleagues indicate measurable pH decreases of approximately 0.025 units and increases in dissolved inorganic carbon of about 15 µmol/kg in surface waters over a large section of the northeastern Pacific. A lowering of pH indicates rising acidity.

"The pH decrease is direct evidence of ocean acidification in the Pacific Ocean," said Feely. "These dramatic changes can be attributed, in most part, to anthropogenic CO2 uptake by the ocean over the past 15 years. This verifies earlier model projections that the oceans are becoming more acidic because of the uptake of carbon dioxide released as a result of fossil fuel burning."

Feely and his colleagues wrote two papers in 2004 published in the journal Science based on 20 years of ocean observations that indicated the oceans were absorbing vast amounts of carbon dioxide and also the effects that changes in water chemistry would have on marine life such as corals and plankton.

The cruise was part of a decadal series of repeat hydrographic sections jointly funded by the NOAA Office of Global Programs (now the Climate Program Office) and the National Science Foundation Division of Ocean Sciences as part of the Climate Variability and Predictability Study CO2 Repeat Hydrography Program. The cruise aboard the R/V Thomas G. Thompson ended in Kodiak, Alaska, last week.

"The global oceans are the largest natural long-term reservoir for anthropogenic carbon dioxide, absorbing approximately one-third of the carbon dioxide added to the atmosphere by human activity each year. Over the next millennium, the global oceans are expected to absorb approximately 90 percent of all CO2 emitted to the atmosphere," said Christopher Sabine, chief scientist for the first leg of the cruise and an oceanographer at NOAA's PMEL.

Victoria Fabry of California State University-San Marcos and Robert Byrne of the University of South Florida measured the rates of dissolution of the calcium exoskeletons of pteropods, free-swimming planktonic mollusks, subjected to the CO2-enriched waters.

Fabry noted that based on the best available science, it appears that as levels of dissolved CO2 in sea water rise, the skeletal growth rates of calcium-secreting organisms will be reduced as a result of the effects of dissolved CO2 on ocean acidity and consequently, on calcification.

"The effects of decreased calcification in microscopic algae and animals could impact marine food webs and, combined with other climatic changes in salinity, temperature and upwelled nutrients, could substantially alter the biodiversity and productivity of the ocean," Fabry said. "As humans continue along the path of unintended CO2 sequestration in the surface oceans, the impacts on marine ecosystems will be direct and profound."

NOAA, an agency of the U.S. Department of Commerce, is dedicated to enhancing economic security and national safety through the prediction and research of weather and climate-related events and providing environmental stewardship of the nation's coastal and marine resources.

Through the emerging Global Earth Observation System of Systems (GEOSS), NOAA is working with its federal partners, 61 countries and the European Commission to develop a global network that is as integrated as the planet it observes, predicts and protects.

Relevant Web Sites
NOAA Pacific Marine Environmental Lab

Media Contact:
Kent Laborde, NOAA, (202) 482-5757
(Photo of pteropod courtesy of NOAA’s Ross Hopcroft.)

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2006/s2606.htm

So, here we are, enjoying the prospect of a truly huge national marine park which may have no more than a few decades to live. 0.025 doesn't sound like much, but please remember that the Ph scale is exponential - 1.0 units' change in either direction means a 1000% shift. So, 0.025 means that the Pacific Ocean - or at least, a massive subset of it - has grown about 25% more acid in a little more than 10 years.

If the oceans continue to acidify, even at present rates, there is nothing that is going to keep the base of the marine food chain alive. And if you have any evidence that "pilot programs" or further "studies" by private or public sector are going to do much of anything to slow the movement of 25 million tons of CO2 into the ocean EACH AND EVERY FUCKING DAY, while our "leaders" talktalktalktalktalk on and on and on, do please feel free to let me know about it, OK?
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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
18. Prediction: It will open up the area to sole source fish harvesting
Once Federalized, BushCo. will let a let a contract for massive fish harvesting to one heavily-friended corporation. There will beget cries of how this is being done to save the reefs, save an obscure species of fish, etc. The target fish will be fish X, but cottage industries will spring up for the other fish type caught in the net.

Doubt it? This is the pretzledunce who promoted timber cutting of old growth forests so we might prevent forest fires.
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CabalPowered Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
19. It doesn't stop the advanced SONAR testing
which is having an impact on sea life near Hawaii. 10 years ago you could swim with dolphins off the coast of the Big Island. That's not the case anymore. Besides that gripe, yes it is a very positive development. Although for the native Hawaiians who want sovereignty, I would assume that they're angry that they can no longer fish those waters.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
20. His rich buddies want protected waters for thier yachts.
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
21. Comic from today's SMW thread...
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. That would about sum the subject up.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-16-06 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
22. in support of a previous opinion:
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