Abraham - U.S. "Won't Beg OPEC" - Instead, Nukes & Hydrogen Will Save Us

[hatrack]

Whatever, Spence . . .

LOS ANGELES - "Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham said last week that the U.S. is not going to "beg OPEC for oil" and was instead developing "game-changing technologies" to counter its dependence on imports. He noted that a huge rise in Asian demand and a recovery in the U.S. economy had contributed to the recent rise in oil, gasoline and other energy prices.


"The president has expressed very clearly his concern about OPEC decisions not hurting the economy... At the time we have also made it clear we are not going to beg OPEC for oil," Abraham said, noting the current rise in prices underscored the need for U.S. energy independence. "Demand in the developing world is going to keep growing. We believe we need transformational technology," he told reporters after a meeting here.

EDIT

For the longer term, he cited the development of clean operating coal-fired power plants, new "meltdown-proof and proliferation-resistant" nuclear plants and hydrogen-related technologies as key to meet growing demand for energy.

EDIT

"We want to transcend this debate. The best way to put ourselves in a long-term position of stability and independence is to develop motor vehicles that operate on hydrogen fuel cells with the hydrogen production coming from stocks that are available here at home," he added."

EDIT

http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/24041/story.htm

[htuttle]

1. We won't beg...

...they'll try to just take it, I'm sure.

However, Sec. Abraham is starting to sound like a man who's just bet the house on completing an inside straight, and then drew a pair of twos...

[salinen]

2. Spencer is sucking

tailpipe fumes again.

[DuctapeFatwa]

3. lifeaftertheoilcrash.net

[jean]

8. thanks for this excellent link

[Tempest]

4. NPR this morning on hydrogen energy

I heard a report on NPR this morning regarding hydrogen energy, and hydrogen experts say the technology doesn't exist and won't exist for years.

They said there was no material known to man which would hold hydrogen in a stable state in such a small container as needed for use.

The experts say spending for hydrogen research is being wasted by the Bush administration.

[cosmicdot]

11. any info on who might be getting the research money?

well, I post, and after doing so, I find an answer in a post sitting below this one

:spank:

Is this Cheney's unilateral myopic Energy Task Force doings?

[Tempest]

5. And guess who is one of hydrogen's leading proponents?

Halliburton.

They have a hydrogen venture and is receiving government funding for research.

[Viking12]

6. and this will substitute for oil how???

"For the longer term, he cited the development of clean operating coal-fired power plants, new "meltdown-proof and proliferation-resistant" nuclear plants and hydrogen-related technologies as key to meet growing demand for energy."

[el_gato]

7. no net energy gain from Hydrogen

it's a red herring

[izzie]

9. Got to be big money making corp behind this.

Loot the tax payers now to build coal fired plants etc. Some thing is not sounding right.

[David Zephyr]

10. Underlying Message Buried in Abraham's Words: Build Nuclear Power Plants

Why did Spencer Abraham make this comment?

Ignore Abraham's bravura and empty rhetoric about OPEC. You know he doesn't mean a word he says about OPEC.

Ignore his flowery words about clean coal and other energy technologies.

Spencer Abraham and Dick Cheney came into the Bush Administration with ONE MAJOR GOAL: START BUILDING NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS.

The American people will now be given a false choice between dirty oil or "safe" nuclear power. Hence, Abraham's beginning to pitch nuclear power plant construction with touchy-feely marketing bullshit like "meltdown-proof and proliferation-resistant nuclear plants".

It's all about greasing the friends of Dick and Abraham in the nuclear industry.

This is the tip off.

Start watching for the hard sell to the American people now.

"Nuclear Power Plant Construction Means New Jobs Here in America"

"Nuclear Power Plant Construction Rescues Us From Foreign Oil"

[NickB79]

13. I'd rather see nuclear plants

Than coal-fired plants. The damage coal plants do to the environment is enormous, yet goes virtually unspoken of, I just don't understand it.

If we discard use of coal, oil and now nuclear, what do we have left that can meet our energy needs?

[Kool Kitty]

31. If we get more nuclear power plants,

how do you propose we deal with the waste they generate?

[Festivito]

12. ANWR and do NOT look at the dollar FALLING.

ANWR is crawling with prospectors who all expect to make a profit off our precious holdings.

Despite oil prices remaining level in terms of the Euro, Bush admin spin, here delivered by Spencer Abraham, ousted senator do-little of Michigan, who once called for the demise of the Energy Department and now heads it, is HIDING THE FACT that a DEVALUED DOLLAR is raises pump price.

Oust Republicans, return some honesty to our lives.

[Bdog]

14. They are so unimaginative.

www.bchp.org/

www.microgen.com

And to top that off you can burn wood, straw, or paper pellets in coal powered plants. Its biomass. It has no heavy metals in it and it reduces pollution levels emitted by coal plants.

Renewables don’t have to replace fossil fuel 100%. You can mix it with the coal.

www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/aw/air/ed/pellets.htm

[NNadir]

16. Mix it with coal? That's a pleasant thought.

You are aware of the Greenhouse effect?

You are aware of the toxicity of coal ash? (It has that awful stuff Uranium and Thorium in it?

You are aware that the problem of coal ash waste has no solution?

Do you know what air pollution is?

I didn't think so.

[Bdog]

17. Are you aware?

...that when you replace 10% of the coal, with biomass, you have reduced those emissions by 10% without adding any sort of pollution control equipment?

[Dissenting_Prole]

18. Where did the biomass come from?

And how much energy (energy from oiland natural gas, likely) is involved in gathering it and making it into a useable source of energy?


http://www.brant.net/gvmr/electric.htm

[Bdog]

19. The paper is free.

Paper pellets come from used paper.

It was on its way to the land fill. It went to a boiler instead.

The costs of pelletizing and transportation limits the radius paper can be collected and economically used in a boiler.

The avoided cost of disposing of the paper is also a benefit.

[jmcgowanjm]

30. Paper has a greater value than burning

We don't see the value yet, because it's covered up by
cheap oil.

I remember a CBS story about how our Paper was/is
being bought up by Asia/China and their remarking
on the wonderful quality of it.

Also any biomass must not be edible first.
The most efficient energy transfer is from stalk
to mouth.

[Bdog]

20. Switchgrass in a Coal-Fired Unit Project Summary

The costs of harvesting and transportation limits the radius bio-mass can be collected and economically used in a boiler.



www.alabamaforestowners.com/CILive/CI0205_a.htm
Switchgrass is a native prairie grass that is highly productive on marginal farmland. It is harvested with traditional farm equipment, requires little care, and grows well in the US southeast. Pilot-scale testing has shown the potential for switchgrass as a renewable energy source capable of reducing carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions. When burned with coal in coal-fired plants, studies have also indicated that sulfur dioxide (SO2), mercury, and perhaps nitrogen oxides (NOx) could be reduced.

To study the potential for switchgrass-based renewable energy, Alabama Power, and Southern Company, with its partners Southern Research Institute and Auburn University, designed and constructed a unique handling, processing, and combustion system for co-firing switchgrass with coal at Alabama Power’s Plant Gadsden. Extensive tests with this system coupled with the results of pilot-scale testing at Southern Company’s combustion test facility were used to understand and optimize the handling, combustion, and efficiency of this renewable energy system....

Environmental advantages with switchgrass co-firing were clearly documented in the tests. CO2, SO2 and mercury emissions decreased with the introduction of switchgrass and there was no adverse effect on NOx emissions. Switchgrass co-firing reduced boiler efficiency by 0.3% to 1.0%, which was considered to be acceptable considering the higher moisture content of the grass. Modifying switchgrass storage procedures to decrease absorbed moisture should improve efficiency results during a three-year, extended evaluation beginning in 2002.

In summary, switchgrass co-firing was tested successfully, and has potential as a renewable energy source. Future testing will focus on fuel procurement issues, improved system efficiencies, and long-term impact on slagging and fouling. Other sources of similar biomass such as local hay, agricultural waste, and sawdust will also be explored at the facility.

[NickB79]

21. What is the energy density of switchgrass biomass vs. coal?

In other words, how many pounds of switchgrass do you have to burn to obtain the same amount of energy yielded by burning one pound of coal? Or, how much energy do you obtain from an acre of switchgrass vs. a ton of coal?

[cprise]

22. I don't understand the question

Coal isn't renewable, switchgrass is. Their energy yield characteristcs are almost apples and oranges. With biofuel, the land is re-used, and with coal it is stripmined.

It would be better to see how many BTUs of energy an acre of switchgrass can produce each year and what it's energy balance is, and compare that to other renewables and our overall energy use.

[Bdog]

24. The energy density of bio-mass compared to coal is always lower.

When it comes to transporting long distances, coal will always win. However, bio-mass becomes economically feasible over shorter distances. And don’t forget all of the fuel used to strip-mine and transport the coal.

Look at the price per Btu delivered. When the price per Btu is sufficiently lower, bio-mass will save money and reduce pollution.

[cprise]

28. Coal is sometimes lower:

black coal....... 24-31 MJ/kg
ethanol.......... 26.8
diesel........... 45.3
biodiesel........ 41.2

http://www.woodgas.com/fuel_densities.htm

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/RoxanneGarcia.shtml

[cprise]

23. The switchgrass energy comes from

...a little bit of fertilizer (some natural gas) and mostly solar energy (photosynthesis).

I remember reading that switchgrass ethanol has an energy balance of 2.4, meaning for each unit of energy used to farm the switchgrass and produce the ethanol, you get 2.4 units in return.

Biodiesel from soy has an energy balance of 3.2. Biodiesel made from rapeseed as grown in Europe has an energy balance of 4.3 and yields about 11.6 million BTUs/acre/year.

[Bdog]

25. I don’t know if rapeseed can be used in a coal plant.

Using existing power plants is a plus. Little or no investment is needed in using some forms of bio-mass.

[cprise]

27. Avoid confusing electricity and transportation

"The best way to put ourselves in a long-term position of stability and independence is to develop motor vehicles that operate on hydrogen fuel cells with the hydrogen production coming from stocks that are available here at home," he added.

Abraham said LNG has an important role while other technologies were developed...


The parent article is reporting on efforts to use natural gas as a stop-gap measure toward hydrogen vehicles. Under this concept of "energy independence" we must replace our vehicles and infrastructure TWICE OVER before we supposedly become situated with hydrogen.

The soy and rapeseed products may be used in existing "power plants" (i.e. diesel engines). Very little investment is indeed needed, which is why biofuel is growing so quickly now.

[Bdog]

29. Yes bio fuels have that advantage over LNG

And more...A Bio-fuel cell & bio-hybrid vehicles can pay for their own parking in downtown environments by suppling electricity to the local grid. Or supply electricity into the grid at night and with just a little investment in a glycol to air heat exchanger and the proper pluming connections, the car could provide winter heating.

Mobile co-generation power plants.

[Bdog]

26. It mostly requires nitrogen. Animal manure is a good source of nitrogen.

Using natural sources of fertilizers reduces the amount paid for natural gas fertilizer.

[ramapo]

15. Clean operating coal-burning plants?

How dare anybody in the Bush misadministration tout clean coal-burning plants.

While the technology has been available, Bush has blocked requiring operating plants to clean up their emissions.

Untold numbers of our citizens suffer from respiratory disease, caused or exacerbated by air pollution, yet our government will not spend the money, nor require corporations to reduce their profits, for the public good.