SAAB 9-5 2.0 Lt BioPower 20% more power on Ethanol 85 than gasoline

[JohnWxy]

This shows what you can do if you optimize a FFV engine to take advantage of the higher octane of Ethanol 85 (105 versus 92-93 for Premium gas). Ethanol also brings with it more oxygen, this makes for cleaner combustion (lowers Greenhouse gases compared to gasoline.

Saab Flexible Fuel Vehicle receives Best of What's NEw Award

The vehicle is now on sale in Sweden, and Saab USA plans to debut a 300 horsepower concept version of the 9-5 BioPower at the upcoming Los Angeles Auto Show and the North American International Auto Show in Detroit. In addition, Saab eventually plans to debut BioPower models in its 9-3 Sport Sedan, SportCombi and Convertible ranges.

Running on E85, a blend of ethanol and gasoline, the Saab 9-5 2.0t BioPower engine delivers 180 bhp and 280 Nm of torque, compared to 150 bhp and 240 Nm when using gasoline, a significant 20 percent increase in maximum power and 16 percent more torque. This gives even sportier performance. The zero to 100 kph (63 mph) dash can be accomplished in 8.5 seconds and 80-120 kph (50-75 mph) in fifth gear in 12.6 seconds, compared to 9.8 and 14.9 seconds when running only on gasoline.

Ethanol fuel is produced commercially from agricultural crops or forest residues. Unlike gasoline, its consumption does not raise atmospheric levels of carbon dioxide (CO2), the 'greenhouse' gas that contributes to global warming. This is because emissions during driving are balanced by the amount of CO2 that is removed from the atmosphere when crops for conversion are grown.

You get increased performance not only in terms of acceleration but also in increased miles per gallon.

[JohnWxy]

1. 2006 SAAB 9-5 2.3T Mileage?? -- 23.53 mpg

From AutoWeek:
2006 SAAB 9-5 2.3T


2006 SAAB 9-5 2.3T
ON SALE: Spring
BASE PRICE: $34,100
POWERTRAIN: 2.3-liter, 260-hp, 258-lb-ft turbocharged I4; fwd, five-speed manual
CURB WEIGHT: 3470 lbs
0 to 62 MPH: 6.9 seconds (mfr.)
FUEL MILEAGE (EPA Combined): 23.53 mpg

Obviously Bullshit(, dude). LOL

[Tab]

3. Are you saying it's too high or too low?

'cause my (older) one gets 29.8 mpg.

[JohnWxy]

5. I was being sarcastic. Maybe I should have left the humor out.

[Tab]

2. I have a 900S Saab Convertible

It's just 4 cyls, but that is just a great car - safe, handles well in bad weather - I'll take it over most any other "car" - and they suck a lot of power out of 4 cyls.

Saab is primarily an aircraft company, and it shows in their design, from engine work to cockpit control. I can control anything in my Saab without taking my eyes off the road. My Honda Odyssey, however, makes it a hazard just to change the temperature, much less do something with the "entertainment system".

My parents had Saabs in the late 60's / early 70s. I had a non-Saab period for a while in my 20s, mainly for reasons of being a student and poor, but I'll continue to get them as long as I can afford them. The next one will be either a 9-3 convertible or a 9-5 sedan (wish they made 9-5 convertibles, but they don't).

Oh, and my 900S, which is a 1996, and solid on the road (meaning, not some lightway piece of tin) gets 30 mpg.

[JohnWxy]

4. I am comparing that mileage to some American cars of similar

weight that are estimated to get about 16-17 mpg on Ethanol 85. It's really difficult to compare your experience with your car without knowing what mix of city /highway you are driving and how that compares to the EPA estimate quoted in the AutoWeek article. Also, of course your style of driving may not compare to how the EPA test was done.

The point is when you optimize the engine for the higher octane, that is, go to a higher compression ratio, that results in more power for a given displacement. That gives you better performance not only in terms of acceleration but also in terms of miles per gallon (assuming you have gear ratios meant to get good mileage) NOte that this Saab has acceleration figures that are very strong. That tells me they have gear ratios in the transmission selected for acceleration. This does NOT help with optimizing mileage. For the weight of this car it is very quick, especially for 180 horsepower (I can't interpret what Nm's of torque is).

This car is set up for quickness not the best mileage.

[Tab]

7. I really do get 30 mph

and if they say they get 23 to 24, I don't doubt it.

Weight is not the only factor. The Saab is one hell of a well-engineered car. I don't know how popular they are in Michigan (although I would think they would be) but in New England, where I live, they're all over. Saab gets a lot of power, and decent mileage, from their cars.

I mainly drive highway (meaning 40mph+) and I regularly get 29 to 30 mpg.

I gather you haven't owned one, but from what I've seen from the different Saabs I've owned, I wouldn't doubt it the claim one bit (not to mention I think they can't arbitrarily pick a number). But you get a lot of power out of a Saab engine, and halfway decent mileage to boot.

Saab has two main lines right now - the 9-3 and the 9-5, which are equivalent to the older 900 and 9000. The 9-3/900 is the smaller, sportier one, the 9-5/9000 is the larger, fancier one (although both are arguably fancy). I used to own a 9000, I now own a 900.

For acceleration, I find the gear ratios very generous - I usually have to shift down to accelerate (I prefer to drive manual shift); I can actually easily go highway speed in 3rd or 4th, if it wasn't for the little "shift up" light, I'd forget I wasn't in 5th. But to accelerate, I have to shift down. Once I do, though, I get plenty of power. The gear ratios in the upper gears are for cruising. This, as opposed to my '78 MGB (with custom engine and overdrive) where I'm constantly shifting due to tight ratios.

To hold American cars of similar weight as the ideal is, imho, unfair. Saabs blow away comparable American cars in terms of power and mileage. They're not cheap, but I won't drive out in a snowstorm in anything else I own. But I can't imagine my Saab getting 16 mpg. If it did, I'd have it in the shop pronto - something would be majorly wrong.

[JohnWxy]

6. From an article on Saab's British release of the 9-5

"E85 is clean-burning, renewable and sustainable fuel," Lowery told the conference. "As in North America, the infrastructure here in Europe for E85 needs more investment, and more stations to bring bioethanol closer to everyone. But with the European Union’s indicative targets for biofuel usage, fuel providers will be encouraged to expand the volume and the infrastructure to meet the needs of consumers, just as we are voluntarily expanding our offerings to meet their vehicle needs in line with the biofuel objective," she continued.

"Frustratingly, the E85 fuelling infrastructure is virtually non-existent in the UK today," adds Jonathan Nash, Managing Director of Saab Great Britain. "We urge the Government to take positive action in its pending Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation to actively encourage the widespread availability of E85 bioethanol throughout the UK."

The same applies to the U.S.

[aztc]

8. A mile-a-minute

The zero to 100 kph (63 mph) dash can be accomplished in 8.5 seconds

I bet if we tried to do it in 17-20 seconds and settled for a top speed of a-mile-a-minute, this car would get 30 to 45 MPG and be even safer!

http://Drive55.org

[JohnWxy]

9. AutoWeek article 0-62: 6.8 sec

This is what can be done when you optimize the engine for the 105 octane of Ethanol 85.

AutoWeek article

From the AutoWeek article:


2006 Saab 9-5

Published Date: 12/5/05
2006 SAAB 9-5 2.3T
ON SALE: Spring
BASE PRICE: $34,100
POWERTRAIN: 2.3-liter, 260-hp, 258-lb-ft turbocharged I4; fwd, five-speed manual
CURB WEIGHT: 3470 lbs
0 to 62 MPH: 6.9 seconds (mfr.)

0 to 62 MPH: 6.9 seconds (mfr.)
CURB WEIGHT: 3470 lbs

Years ago in drag racing they made a separate class for cars running on alcohol (methyl, in this case, ethanol is very similar). They had to make a separate class because the alcohol powered cars would blow the doors off the gas powered cars. It wasn't fair to make the gas powered cars run aginst the 'fuelies'.