G24 Innovations Celebrates The Realisation Of ‘Green From Green’ Sustainability Dream …

[OKIsItJustMe]

http://www.responsesource.com/releases/rel_display.php?relid=66343

G24 Innovations Celebrates The Realisation Of ‘Green From Green’ Sustainability Dream Driven With Two Peugeot Ion Electric Cars

Wednesday, 03 August 2011

Solar pioneer G24 Innovations (G24i) has celebrated the official opening of a 120 metre tall, 2.3 MW wind turbine at its Cardiff manufacturing facility, marking the realisation of a dream to produce renewable energy products using only renewable energy. Unveiled by the Rt. Hon. Oliver Letwin MP, Minister of State at the Cabinet Office, the Ecotricity-owned turbine will produce enough electricity to power the entire 23 acre site and will save more than 2,500 tonnes of CO2 a year.

G24i also used Mr Letwin’s visit to announce the launch of a new on-site electric vehicle programme. Having installed two charging points, surplus wind power will now be used to run two Peugeot iOn http://www.peugeot.co.uk/city-cars/">city cars, allowing staff and visitors to travel around Cardiff and the local area in a more sustainable way.

G24i’s founder, Bob Hertzberg said: “This is the realisation of our ‘green from green’ dream. For the first time renewable energy will be used to directly manufacture renewable energy products, a virtuous circle at the heart of the Government’s vision of a low-carbon economy.

“Sustainability runs to the very core of our business strategy. Building a turbine and introducing EVs are significant steps and we are already exploring other innovative ways in which we can drive down our environmental impact. Our goal is to be a true global pioneer – not just in the technology that we create, but also in the business practices we employ.

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[postulater]

1. I'll be impressed when they can run a steel mill on green energy. nt

[kristopher]

2. Why can't they? Energy from renewables is indistinguishable from energy produced in a coal plant.

Suppose just for a moment that they can never run a steel plant on renewable energy, does it make sense to design an entire global energy system around the needs of one, specific user?

[OKIsItJustMe]

4. Traditionally, steel was made in "blast furnaces" (not using electricity)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blast_furnace
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessemer_process
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessemer_process#Obsolescence

[kristopher]

5. I know.

That was why I asked the question about whether the entire system should be designed around the needs of a single user.

Just supposing some portion of steelmaking (or any other industry) absolutely required carbon fuels, given the global array of energy related problems, the proper way to handle that would have the enterprise involved be responsible for meeting their own specific needs with facilities designed specifically for them. It is already routinely done by heavy industries and I thought it would be a good chance to point out that the concept of starting with how best to satisfy the needs of each user is the basis for a distributed grid.

[postulater]

6. Maybe there isn't any reason why they can't.

Has it been done yet?

Like I say, I'll be impressed when they can do it, or better yet actually do it.

[OKIsItJustMe]

3. Using an “Electirc Arc Furnace” you mean?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_arc_furnace

…

Arc furnaces range in size from small units of approximately one ton capacity (used in foundries for producing cast iron products) up to about 400 ton units used for secondary steelmaking. Arc furnaces used in research laboratories and by dentists may have a capacity of only a few dozen grams. Industrial electric arc furnace temperatures can be up to 1,800 degrees Celsius, while laboratory units can exceed 3,000 °C. Arc furnaces differ from induction furnaces in that the charge material is directly exposed to an electric arc, and the current in the furnace terminals passes through the charged material.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_arc_furnace#Advantages_of_electric_arc_furnace_for_steelmaking

…

Advantages of electric arc furnace for steelmaking

The use of EAFs allows steel to be made from a 100% scrap metal feedstock, commonly known as "cold ferrous feed" to emphasise the fact that for an EAF, scrap is a regulated feed material. The primary benefit of this is the large reduction in specific energy (energy per unit weight) required to produce the steel. Another benefit is flexibility: while blast furnaces cannot vary their production by much and are never stopped, EAFs can be rapidly started and stopped, allowing the steel mill to vary production according to demand. During the peak of global meltdown in 2009, an estimated quantity of only 1 million tonne was produced in USA employing BOF technique. Although steelmaking arc furnaces generally use scrap steel as their primary feedstock, if hot metal from a blast furnace or direct-reduced iron is available economically, these can also be used as furnace feed.

A typical steelmaking arc furnace is the source of steel for a mini-mill, which may make bars or strip product. Mini-mills can be sited relatively near to the markets for steel products, and the transport requirements are less than for an integrated mill, which would commonly be sited near a harbour for access to shipping.

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I do love myths about what is and is not possible to do with renewable energy.

[postulater]

7. Electirc Arc Furnace might be a way to do it.

Especially for recycling steel. And if there is an ample supply of electricity available.

I like to think we can adapt and change the way we do things but am skeptical about whether it will happen within my lifetime.

That's why I say I will be impressed when it becomes a common and wise use of our energy.

[txlibdem]

8. Concentrating solar energy generates temperatures double that required to melt steel

The solar furnace at Odeillo in the French Pyrenees-Orientales can reach temperatures up to 3,800 degrees Celsius.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_thermal_energy#High-temperature_collectors

What temperature is needed to melt steel (in degrees C):
Carbon Steel.........1425 - 1540
Stainless Steel.........1510
...and...
Aluminum................660
Brass...................930
Cast Iron, gray......1175 - 1290

Reference: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/melting-temperature-metals-d_860.html


With that info we can see that using focused mirrors to concentrate the sun's energy, the amount of electricity needed to melt any metal can be fully or partially replaced by free solar energy.

Aluminum can be melted 24/7 by using solar energy to heat liquid fluoride salts operating between 700 °C to 800 °C (from the first link in this post).

[postulater]

9. Great. The sooner the better!

[txlibdem]

10. The only thing stopping it is 19th century thinking and inertia

Seems like people just want to do things the way they've always been done. Perhaps there is a lack of vision, or a lack of courage, or fear that financing or the insurance companies will back out if they tried such a radically different method of melting metal.

We (the masses) are going to have to force the changes we know are necessary.