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What's the cheapest commute: Leaf, Volt, Prius, Focus or a train?

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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 10:00 AM
Original message
What's the cheapest commute: Leaf, Volt, Prius, Focus or a train?


"Have you ever wondered how much it costs to commute in a plug-in car versus a hybrid or a gas-only model? After we published our exclusive comparison test among three different plug-in electric vehicles, many people asked us to test additional fuel-conscious options.

Among them was Roz Varon, the transportation reporter from Chicago ABC News affiliate ABC7. So Cars.com partnered with ABC7 and pitted the Cars.com Chevrolet Volt and Nissan Leaf against a Toyota Prius, a high-mileage Ford Focus hatchback and a commuter train to see how much each costs in a typical round-trip commute from the suburbs to the Loop, Chicago's central business district.

Four Different Drivetrains

The cars represent four separate drivetrain approaches: The 2011 Leaf is all-electric; the 2011 Volt runs on electricity alone for roughly 30 to 40 miles and then switches to premium gas; the 2011 Prius relies on electricity and regular gas; and the newly redesigned 2012 Focus uses regular gas. The Focus is part of the new crop of high-mileage compacts that can achieve close to 40 mpg on the highway with an automatic transmission. Unfortunately, the only diesel in our test was the locomotive that pulls Metra's Burlington Northern Santa Fe line. For the record, that's a diesel-electric series hybrid, but we won't geek out on mass-transit technology."

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2011/05/cheapest-commute-nissan-leaf-chevy-volt-toyota-prius-ford-focus-or-a-train.html
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. You don't have to buy the train
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Or park it
but the train also uses 3x as much energy as a Leaf.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. But carries how many people compared to a Leaf?
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. That's per passenger/mile. nt
Edited on Wed May-11-11 10:22 AM by wtmusic
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. No, but I used to drive 20 minutes to get to the train station.
Edited on Wed May-11-11 10:28 AM by Deep13
I lived one town out from Cleveland. It then took half an hour to get down town (after waiting for the train) and cost $3 round trip. It also took 15 min. to walk from the train station to my office. At the time It cost $5 to park across the street from the office and I could be there from my house in 20 minutes. Now I live one county out from either Cleveland or Akron and there is no train and not much bus service to anyplace in town locally or to either city.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. Actually, you DO have to buy the train. Just on the installment plan.
The purchase price comes from either your ticket, or your taxes, or both.
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Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
2. Mr. Brickbat hits a double: He drives his Focus (where he sometimes hits 40 mpg) to work, then
drives a train.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
3. If the Volt was less expensive I'd already have one
and I'd rarely use gas at all. I'd go months on a tank.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
4. K&R...very interesting story.
Prius ain't all dat, apparently. The article touched on a lot of important issues, such as initial purchase price ("You don't have to purchase a train to use it.") and reliability. It'd be nice to read an article that delves deeper into all those side-issues, not just the MPG/EV range.

.
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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
8. when is the train being installed in my town?
the light rail is taking 15 years and it will be 3 miles from my house.
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guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
10. They are all wrong. I have the CHEAPEST commute
It is called 'home office'. My commute consists of making a pot of coffee and walking down the hall. A 'traffic delay' consists of stepping over the dog. I fill up my car's gas tank about once every 3 weeks. Having a home office also reduces your monthly expenses for dry cleaning, lunch/food, and auto insurance. It's definitely a money saver if your job/profession permits.

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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Your home office is cleaner than mine.
If you have kids distractions can be an issue, but I hang a sign on the door that says, "THIS BETTER BE GOOD". They know what it means. :scared:

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guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Thats a stock photo off the Internet
My actual office is a real working office and semi-messy all the time. I don't have a 'show office' that some people have in their house. I don't have children running around but it did take a while to train my wife that just because I'm physically in the house that I can't spend all day doing chit-chat or errands or honey-dos. I'm pretty much left alone now unless I come out of my office.

You idea of a sign sounds like a good one.
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jtrockville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. RIght on guardian! I've been telecommuting full time since 1997
Love every minute of it. My office has all the comforts of home.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
13. Bicycle!!!
...but its not for everyone.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Yeah baby!
You are hardcore...I'm not equipped for riding when it's below 40°F (that's my excuse, anyway)
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. We have discussed cold weather communting on the bicycle Forum
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
18. Electric cars like the Nissan Leaf will win every competition
Thanks for posting!
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-11 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. If you add in "parking", light rail will prevail
There are cost involved with owning a car, one is where to park it? In something like Chicago it is a constant headache, thus light rail or in this case traditional rail wins out.
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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. It's true that, in the 5 or 6 cities in the USA with the highest density, light rail might be ok
But in the other 99.999% of the nation... No.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Inter city urban populations is about 33% to 50% of the population.
Now, that also tends to be only about 10-20% of the land area, thus why we have the term "High Density Populations". About 33% of the population live in Rural areas, thus the best way to get around has been the Automobile since the 1920s (and why in the 1920s the Automobile Industry concentrated on getting cars to Rural American and Upper Middle class America as opposed to the rest of the population, it is only in the post WWII era that you had most people living in urban areas driving cars).

The reason I am using 33-50% of the population for inner-city/urban areas is most traditional Northern Urban Cities stop expanding in the late 1920s, and you had the rise of the Suburbs. Most Suburbs started as "Trolley Suburbs" in the 1890s onward, but started to switch to "Automobile" suburbs starting in the 1920s (The Housing boom of the 1920s ended with the Housing crash of the 1930s, while some housing came back 1938-1941, WWII stopped that mini-boom and it did NOT re-start till 1946, by that time developers of suburbs were no longer building trolley lines to their developments, instead relying on new buyers having access to cars with a limited access to bus transportation).

Most of the pre-depression Trolley suburbs are now viewed as "Inner City" by most suburbanites. even if the Tolley suburb is NOT in the inner city proper. Sometimes these are referred to as "Older Suburbs". These are almost non-existent outside of California and the North (Minneapolis East to Boston/New York City/ Washington) for the south the west did NOT participate extensively in the boom of the late 1800s and pre-WWII industrial America. You have some on the West Coast, but we have to remember California only became the Third Largest state by population in 1940 (Beating out Ohio), and the second most populated state by 1950 (Beating out Pennsylvania). California only became the most populated state in the census of 1980, finally beating out New York State. Texas and Florida have followed a similar through about 20 years later pattern, thus the big three of 1900, New York, Pennsylvania and Ohio (#4 was Illinois, # 5 was Texas, #6 was Massachusetts), are now the big three of California, Texas and then New York (#4 is Florida, #5, Illinois and #6 Pennsylvania). Most of this development is post WWII (The top Six States by population in 1950 was New York, California, Pennsylvania. Illinois, Ohio and Texas).

I mention the above just to point out the much earlier development of the Northern States compared to the Rest of the Country. California started its "Growth" while before the South did and thus why the South is the most car dependent area of the Country, for the Urban and Suburban South is a product of the age of the Automobile suburb, not the earlier growth of the Urban Core nor the Trolley suburb and thus why it is the area most opposed to alternatives to the Automobile.

http://www.census.gov/statab/hist/HS-04.pdf

For this reason, outside of the American North, you tend to see very small urban cores surrounded by post WWII suburban developments, while in the American North you tend to have a more balance i.e. a much larger urban core, surrounded by a inner ring of old trolley suburbs, then the post WWII Automobile suburbs. The first two areas are idea for Light Rail, and where Light rail is making its biggest comeback, the later area is to low a population density for Light Rail, and depends on the Automobile. The Post WWII Automobile Suburbs must live and die with the Automobile, the Urban Core and Old Trolley Suburbs can survive without the Automobile for they were designed NOT to depend on automobiles.

I lived in the South, in an Automobile Suburb for a few years, and saw the differences between it and where I grew up in an old trolley suburb. To get anywhere in the Automobile Suburb I had to get there by Car, walking was either to far or to dangerous. I did NOT have such a restriction in my old trolley suburb, everything was in walking distance, they had something called "Sidewalks" even on major highways (The Housing development I Lived in had sidewalks, but the development was blocked off by four lane highways that surrounded the development).

I can NOT say EITHER aspect was a deliberate plan, I suspect it came out of the plan to make it easy to everyone to use the Trolley (In the trolley Suburb) or their Automobile (in the Automobile Suburb). Furthermore, the North retain more of their old inner city business core area then the Southern City Urban Cores (In the Southern City I lived in, the old urban core had for all practical purposes been abandoned in favor of being somewhere along the interstate that was the core of the Suburbs of that city). In Northern Cities, such development has occurred, but the inner City has retains many of its older business aspects.

Thus a comment on your statement that 99.99 % of the population, Light rail is a good solution to the old urban core and old trolley suburbs and those automobile suburbs that can adjust to light rail. This section of the population is around 33-50% of the population, more in the older Norther Cities and their older Suburbs then the Post-WWII suburbs (which is the growth area of most of the rest of the Country). The General rule of thumb is 1/3 of the American population live in the older inner Cities, 1/3 in Suburban and 1/3 in Rural America. The 33-50% numbers I am using reflect that the divide between these three groups is NOT that definite. US urban centers do NOT have walls that says where the cities ends and where the suburbs begin (Through some of the belt way perform a similar function as far as walking is concerned, thus why Boston did its "Big Dig" to get rid of the expressways built in the 1950s for they were killing Boston). The same with Suburbia and Rural America, you have huge overlap (in fact the term "Suburban" was invented to describe areas of such overlap between Urban and Rural American, but since the 1920s have taken to mean NOT that area of overlap, but something different from both).



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txlibdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-11 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. What I meant was that light rail needs huge subsidies in most parts of the nation
I guessed that it could be profitable in those few cities where population density is highest.

Where I live, DART (Dallas Area Rapid Transit) light rail serves 57,000 riders per day in and among the 13 cities that participate (it's voluntary and results in a 1% extra sales tax to pay for DART services) out of a population of 2 million people, or 2.85%. It's really less than that because most people will take the train somewhere and then take the train back later in the day.

It's not a knock against light rail. I just think it could never survive without subsidies (except in those high density places I mentioned).
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