Blast, smoke at Japanese nuclear plant. The reactor building has been destroyed.

[Fledermaus]

Public broadcaster NHK Saturday reported that a blast had been heard at about 3:30pm local time and showed delayed footage of smoke billowing from the site, also reporting that the reactor building had been destroyed.

The blast reportedly left several workers injured.

Kyodo News agency said radioactive caesium had been detected near the site, citing the Japanese nuclear safety commission.

TV channels warned nearby residents to stay indoors, turn off air-conditioners and not to drink tap water. People going outside were also told to aviod exposing their skin and to cover their faces with masks and wet towels.


http://www.smh.com.au/environment/blast-smoke-at-japanese-nuclear-plant-20110312-1brv1.html




Huge blast at Japan nuclear plant
A massive explosion has hit a Japanese nuclear power plant where a meltdown is feared as a huge relief operation continues after Friday's devastating earthquake and tsunami.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/

[Skip_In_Boulder]

1. On Twitter

Cirincione Joe Cirincione
by maddow@
@dcb23 Japan officials say they can contain it. If so, no threat to US. If not, radioactivity will carry east, as in Chernobyl.

[bananas]

2. video of the explosion

twitvid: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4767113&mesg_id=4767149
youtube: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x562186

[bananas]

3. First pictures of Fukushima building before and after explosion HERE:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=622147&mesg_id=622147

[joshcryer]

4. Please god let containment hold.

[eppur_se_muova]

5. Very white smoke -- what you'd expect from a hydrogen explosion.

TEPCO has already said it was hydrogen. Let's hope it's so.

[AtheistCrusader]

7. Still even if it was...

Ok, I'll admit it. I'm beginning to worry about the integrity of the containment vessel.

I'm also starting to wonder about reactor #2, which they have stopped talking about, ever since reactor #3 was 'brought down to safe pressure/temp levels'.

[txlibdem]

21. very white smoke -- actually it's steam, lookup the hindenburg to see a real hydrogen explosion

Your post contains incorrect information, possibly inadvertently fear mongering but if it quacks like a duck...

Please do not post incorrect info during a tragedy of this sort. It does no good.

Hindenburg: an actual hydrogen explosion,
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1264&bih=572&q=hindenburg+explosion&gbv=2&aq=6&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=hindenburg

Compare those pictures with the steam coming from the Japanese reactor to see the difference. A simple look will expose the fear mongering of some irresponsible posters.

[eppur_se_muova]

29. WHAT incorrect information? Two statements in that post, both true, and an expressed wish.

I know perfectly H2 burns to make water vapor (aka steam). I said "smoke" for three reasons: (1) that's what most people see when they see that big white cloud. Splitting hairs and calling it "steam" doesn't help most people. (BTW, actual steam is invisible. The white cloud is tiny droplets of condensed water, not steam -- as long as we're splitting hairs, otherwise I wouldn't even mention that). (2) With only video to judge by, one can't distinguish smoke from water clouds with certainty. Saying "smoke and/or steam" might have been more hairsplittingly precise, but I question that it would have been any big help. (3) In any explosion, there's bound to be lots of dust/debris from other materials entrained in the explosion, making the debris cloud more opaque, and possibly altering its color. Whether one calls that "dust" or "smoke" depends on whether it was actually produced by burning, which seems like a pointless quibble, and again, based on visual evidence, not one that's safe to make. The fact that the cloud was NOT dark with particulates suggests that fairly clean burning occured, which points to H2/air. Not a proof, merely a deduction, but good reason to suggest that something other than a breach of the containment vessel occured.

The whole point of my post was to dampen fear mongering. If you missed that, you need to work on reading comprehension a little. I was pointing out that the explosion seemed too clean for anything but H2/air to be the likely explanation. Since H2 is commonly produced in nuclear reactors, this was a reasonable hypothesis. H2/air explosions occured at both TMI ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_accident#Consequences_of_stuck_valve ) and Chernobyl. What I was offering was reasonably informed deductive reasoning to point out that the occurence of some explosion did not necessarily imply the worst case scenario AT ALL, however much concern it raised.

(The "real" hydrogen explosion of the Hindenberg won't be a good example, because there was so much burning canvas and varnish/paint, which produced all the light and color (mostly due to sodium ions, since Na+ emits light so efficiently -- this is why so many flames are orange, and why sodium is used in some street lamps). Hydrogen burns with an INVISIBLE flame. The bright flash and big white cloud of the Challenger explosion was more comparable.)

[txlibdem]

30. If you say that was your intent then I believe you

The statement "Hydrogen exploded at a nuclear plant" sounded inflammatory to me and since you provided no link to support your claim... Add to that the fact that I found two links that say it was the buildup of steam pressure that caused the wall to burst out and gravity caused the ceiling to collapse, you can see how I might jump to the conclusion I did.

Imagine there's a policeman directing traffic away from your work, telling people, "Don't worry folks, it's just a hydrogen explosion at the nuclear power plant. Nothing to see here; move along." Now, honestly, what would your mind jump to first (especially given the climate on DU for the past couple of days -- posters claiming all kinds of false stuff and spinning a tiny release of steam into "OMG'z... This Is Chernobyl All Over Again!!!!")

So for the record: there was NO hydrogen explosion. If any portion of the pressure buildup were caused by hydrogen it would have been the result of extreme heat:
"Only about 3% will split at 2200 °C. About 3000 °C or more is where you'll start to see about 50% of the molecules splitting."
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101213170924AAk9gVX

As to the Hindenburg, refer to:

"Here's the simple explanation: Hydrogen does burn invisibly… but only when hydrogen is the only thing burning.

As the Hindenburg was consumed by flame, it was not only the hydrogen which burned; it was also the canvas covering, the aluminum alloy framework, the steel bracing cables, the gelatine-cotton gas cells, the tanks of diesel fuel, and even the tables and chairs. And no-one has ever claimed that canvas, aluminum, steel, or diesel fuel burns with an invisible flame."
http://www.airships.net/hindenburg/disaster/myths

[jpak]

6. CNN also reports cesium release due to fuel rod damage

n/t

[Fledermaus]

8. Is there cesium because it was intentionally released or is containment breached?

[joshcryer]

9. From what I understand they were doing a steam bleed off but stopped when they detected cesium.

No idea if it was released but some small quantity probably was.

[eppur_se_muova]

11. What source? That's the most detailed info I've read. nt

[abqmufc]

13. HERE you are

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/12_38.html

Enjoy. Meltdown is occurring NOW.

[abqmufc]

14. Wallsteet Journal article (good detailed info).....

"TOKYO—Japanese nuclear authorities said Saturday afternoon the Fukushima Daiichi No. 1 nuclear reactor was experiencing the threat of a meltdown after Friday's massive earthquake damaged the cooling system and that outside water was being poured into the reactor to cool it down.

"If the water level remains at this level, the reactor core might be damaged, but we are now pouring water into the reactor to prevent it from happening," a spokesman for Tokyo Electric Power Co. said. The company, known as Tepco, is the owner of the plant, which is located 150 miles, or 240 kilometers, away from Tokyo.

A portion of the reactor's fuel rods, which create heat through a nuclear reaction, have become exposed due to the cooling-system failure. The spokesman for Tepco said 1.5 meters of the 4.5 meter long fuel rods were potentially exposed."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703555404576195700301455480.html

[txlibdem]

22. Your link says nothing about meltdown at all

That post is exposed as pure fear mongering and that sentence is a fiction, is not happening, will not happen.

Posting incorrect information just because it affirms your religious beliefs does not make it a fact.

[abqmufc]

23. see it how you want to...

Answer me this. How long did it take to hear about Bopa the true extentl? How long did it take to hear the true extent of BP oil spill? How long did it take for us to learn about Chernobyl's extent? Yet you expect the truth to come out now for this incident? I may be living in a world of fear, but I suspect you are living in a world of denial.

Also comments BELOW the web link to an article are deemed PERSONAL comments according the Democratic Underground guidelines. Thus, thanks for pointing out what is already known, that the meltdown comment was my opinion. Finally, I'd note the time of the comment. At 3:30 AM MST, BBC, Sky, CNN, and msnbc all had "experts" saying it was nearing meltdown, meltdown was unavoidable. In a real time, social network media world these sites ARE NOT for the final truth, they are for getting the word out fast, as best we can, and we the best info we can find.

good day.

[txlibdem]

24. So the fact that your link said nothing of the sort makes it a fact anyway?

That doesn't make any sense as written. Can you put it in the form of a metaphor?

Example: My car that I drive everyday just got a flat tire, therefore the gas tank has exploded/will explode/must explode?

Example 2: My computer needs to be rebooted due to error, therefore SkyNet has taken over and "Arnold" will bust down my door to kill us all soon.

Example 3: ... you do one now. Come on, it's fun to just make crap up. Play along!

PS, why don't people use the "DIV" tag as it is supposed to be used. The link entitled "HTML lookup table" is right there when making a post. If anyone needs help with the "DIV" tag please feel free to PM me, I will be glad to explain it as best I can.

[abqmufc]

25. Can't you see I wrote MY OPINION.

Christ, you are just like the lot of DU'ers. You walk around with a chip on your shoulder and accuse people of things that you are uncertain about.

Instead of saying something to the effect of "hey your post noted 'meltdown is coming' but I didn't see that in the article, please explain." You jump up and down my arse and start stating I am a spreading lies and fear. Yet to me, everyone has the right to an opinion so long as they state it is an opinion. I felt it was clear that the comment was an opinion, you didn't. I get that, yet you just kept coming like it is some virtual fist fight. Even now you ignore the fact I said yes, it is my opinion, you attempt to tell me I am wrong. It is an opinion, why can't mine be different than yours? Why must you say I am wrong for my opinion. You ask nothing as to why I say this (like a decade of experience on such matters)

Every opinion is based on something, and one persons logic for an opinion is another persons excuse or 'fairytale'. My logic does not have to mirror your logic. To me the government (all) lie, they never give the truth upfront and I listed some examples that are very similar to this accident. I could list 100 examples (starting with the impacts of the nuclear legacy of the Navajo and Pueblo peoples of the southwest the issue that is close to my home), but I feel that is pointless, you obviously love to fight. I'd assume most people on DU would agree the government is never honest, that is not a liberal notion that is a human nature notion, or at least I assume.

Next time I suggest if you find an error or have a question or need clarification why not ask without the hate and looking for a fight?

good day,

[txlibdem]

27. You can believe what you want but fear mongering hurts others -- that's a fact

People have died over fear mongering: Dubya's build-up to the Iraq war has now been proven to be nothing but fear mongering and the result is thousands of American soldiers are dead, perhaps hundreds of thousands of Iraqis are dead.

Panic in football stadiums leads to people getting trampled to death. So, no, I don't take fear mongering lightly because people could die because of it. I prefer facts and opinions that are clearly stated "this is my opinion" or "IMO" or some other qualifier. Your post #13 states: "Enjoy. Meltdown is occurring NOW." and that is not depicted as an opinion; its position immediately under a link leads a reader to assume that information is in the link, that the statement is fact and not opinion at all. That is my only beef with your "opinion" statement.

Any false statement kinda rubs me the wrong way. Sorry that I didn't allow you to post false information at will without being called on it. My bad. :hi: :grouphug:

[abqmufc]

28. Last time, I don't see my opinion being fear mongering...

I am sorry you do. I also hope I am wrong and we won't see 1 to 5 reactors go to meltdown in the next 36 - 48 hours. But I'll bet my next 3 unemployment checks I am right.

We are going in circles, yes I know what I said, I also said that I felt it was well classified as "opinion" by its location. You don't...so I'll put in big bold letter from now on to please YOU, MY FREAKING OPINION.

And again with the attitude...(this is my MY FREAKING OPINION)

I stated my opinion was based upon the current news at the time of the original post, 3:30 AM MST. Here is a link which seems to elude meltdown was eminent. From my understanding this sight is essentially Japanese Public TV, and thus I'd deem a credible source (MY FREAKING OPINION). If you like examples of the news breaking at that time, I can and will post them. I hope this one is enough.

TITLE: "Agency: Uranium fuel may be melting at reactor"
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/12_45.html

That Agency is the country's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency....MY FREAKING OPINION, they are the source to trust. My FREAKING LOGIC felt if the government thinks the fuel may be melting in the core AND they could not cool it down (fact at the time of the first post), then the end result is core meltdown. I am sorry that logic is fear mongering to you I am. My intent is never that for the exact reasons you bring up. I've seen first hand the hate and fear created during a Manchester derby and United's derby match with Liverpool FC, so nice tie in on bringing up footie.

[FogerRox]

32. Cesium is created by degradation of fuel rods

at 2200 degrees or higher. That is the beginning of the meltdown.

[FogerRox]

31. Fuel rods react at 2200 degrees or higher.

Creating cesium. SO when the government tells you there is cesium in the air, they are likely not holding back.

[eppur_se_muova]

10. BBC also reporting iodine. Neither is good news.

Venting should release gases, mostly xenon and krypton. Venting at TMI did release some iodine, though -- most abundant after noble gases. So this still does not *definitely* mean that the vessel has been breached, except for the deliberate venting. Keeping fingers crossed.

[abqmufc]

12. Now a 25K safe zone created

It started at 3K, then 6K, then 10K, now 25K exclusion zone (CNN reporting). See the path....meltdown is occurring. The zone is now hitting higher density population zones.

[Strelnikov_]

15. ..

redacted, not appropriate at this time.

[joshcryer]

16. The pro-nukers put the final stage at containment building. If it ruptures or has ruptured...

...then they will have been proven wrong in their faith that it wasn't capable of rupturing under most concievable circumstances.

Of course they might weasel around about how the hydrogen coolant blew up the containment vessel but we'll see.

[abqmufc]

18. And they ignore the cooling ponds outside the plant

They could be breached or heat up and vaporize. Those ponds hold a lot of Cesium and nuclear waste. Similar to the coal slurry ponds in the USA, there is concern the pools in Japan could be breached and float out to the Sea.

“In addition to the reactor cores, the storage pool for highly radioactive irradiated nuclear fuel is also at risk. The pool cooling water must be continuously circulated. Without circulation, the still thermally hot irradiated nuclear fuel in the storage pools will begin to boil off the cooling water. Within a day or two, the pool’s water could completely boil away. ..."

http://blogs.forbes.com/williampentland/2011/03/11/risk-of-nuclear-catastrophe-escalates-in-japan-worse-than-chernobyl/

[abqmufc]

17. One hour exposure = one year of normal exposure, report

"Fukushima Prefecture says a high level of radiation has been measured near the Fukushima Number One nuclear power station.

The prefecture says the radiation level rose to 1,015 mircrosieverts per hour on Saturday.

One hour of exposure to this amount of radiation is equivalent to the permissible amount of radiation an ordinary person receives in one year. It is about twice the level that requires power companies to notify the government of an emergency situation.

The government's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency says the power station's operator, Tokyo Electric Power Company, observed the radiation level near a gate on the hillside of the plant at 3:29 PM on Saturday, before an explosion was reported at the nuclear plant."

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/12_51.html

[FBaggins]

26. Odd choice of units aside... let's hope that's all there is.

Obviously a problem... but if doses stay in that range there shouldn't be a problem.

The same source that reported the earlier number reported a far lower one just minutes later. If true, that's an encouraging sign.

[joshcryer]

19. Radiation was 1015 microsevert at 3:26 PM, 860 at 3:40 PM, now it is 70.5 microsevert!

[joshcryer]

20. The radiation measured was because of the intentional pressure release they did.