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Solar Power Comes to Saudi Arabia in a Big Way as Peak Oil Looms

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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 04:42 PM
Original message
Solar Power Comes to Saudi Arabia in a Big Way as Peak Oil Looms
http://www.fastcompany.com/1728619/saudi-arabia-looks-to-alternative-energy-as-peak-oil-looms-heavily

Solar Power Comes to Saudi Arabia in a Big Way as Peak Oil Looms

BY Jenara Nerenberg

Saudi Arabia is the world's largest exporter of oil. But as http://www.fastcompany.com/1702570/international-energy-agency-peak-oil-has-already-passed">experts and http://www.fastcompany.com/1725372/wikileaks-may-have-just-confirmed-the-existence-of-peak-oil">WikiLeaks previously detailed--the country's oil supply may be fast dwindling and that has made renewable energy options, such as solar, that much more appealing. Just this week the country announced that construction of its http://www.pv-tech.org/news/phoenix_solar_chosen_by_saudi_aramco_to_build_3.5mw_plant">largest solar power plant will be completed by September--and this just days after http://www.fastcompany.com/1725372/wikileaks-may-have-just-confirmed-the-existence-of-peak-oil">WikiLeaks reports about exaggerated oil quantities from the country hit the news.

"The solar market in the Gulf region is still in its infancy," http://www.pv-tech.org/news/phoenix_solar_chosen_by_saudi_aramco_to_build_3.5mw_plant">said Klaus Friedl, general manager of Phoenix Solar, the firm contracted to build the new solar plant. "There is, however, a huge potential for solar power plants in Saudi Arabia."

The concern over oil shortages is no longer limited to supplying foreign countries--the rate of domestic consumption in Saudi Arabia is set to triple in the next 20 years to 120 gigawatts, which means that Saudis could foreseeably consume all of their oil just for themselves. "It's really a preservation decision using solar for domestic consumption and keeping your oil for more lucrative export markets," http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/17/us-saudi-diversify-idUSTRE71G0L220110217?pageNumber=1">said Vahid Fotuhi, Middle East director of BP Solar. "Right now, out of the 8 million barrels per day they produce, over 3 million barrels per day are consumed domestically, mainly for power generation. That figure is growing 8 percent per annum," said Fotuhi.

Saudi Oil Minister Ali al-Naimi has already made it clear that he wants his country's level of solar output to match oil exports, though in terms of action the world is still left waiting. The country has more sun than oil, which means the desert nation could become the world's top exporter of power, just as it is the leader in oil.

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inademv Donating Member (738 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. Missed oportunity
Had we invested properly into the building of these solar systems, we could be selling them to the Arabs ourselves.
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. indeed, but we got the Raygun instead of a President
and the rest is history.
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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Exactly the thought I had when I saw the title
and another thought. If the oil countries are realizing they have to do something why aren't we?
Personally we are trying to cut our fossil fuel use and have cut our electric usage by 3/4 in 4 yrs without going broke...we were broke to start with and 450$ per month electric bills were ridiculous. Our bill is down , but the power co is adding fuel costs etc so we are only down to 150-200 40$ of that is added fuel costs.(have to use the ac on those over 100 degree days I cannot cope with the heat)
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Newest Reality Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. Take heed!
That's a very revealing move on the part of the Saudi's in relation to the oil supply situation.
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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. It’s not just the Saudi's either
http://www.arabianbusiness.com/uae-renewable-energy-targets-on-track-says-masdar-ceo-372837.html

UAE renewable energy targets on track, says Masdar CEO

By Ed Attwood
Tuesday, 11 January 2011 9:54 AM

Abu Dhabi’s plan to have seven percent of its energy needs provided from renewable energy sources by 2020 is on track, the CEO of Masdar City has said.

“So far most of these renewable energy installations and applications are already on the ground at Masdar City,” Masdar CEO Sultan Al Jaber told reporters on Monday.

“We have a number of other initiatives, such as the Shams 1 project, which is well under way. Most of the seven percent will come from solar power.”

The emirate’s plan is to provide around 1000 megawatts of power from renewable sources, Al Jaber added.

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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. This is your idea of "in a Big Way"?
Edited on Thu Feb-17-11 05:08 PM by FBaggins
500 of these "largest solar power plants" and they still won't get as much power as their first reactor (also planned) will give them.

So I guess that means you think they're going nuclear in a "really REALLY BIG WAY!!!!" ?

The article says that they expect to grow their power needs by 40 GW over the next twenty years. How many tens of thousands of these "largest" plants do you anticipate? :rofl:

Though I will say... if you're going to expand solar... this is the place to do it.
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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Saudi to develop solar and nuclear power
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1e31d396-27a6-11e0-a327-00144feab49a.html

Saudi to develop solar and nuclear power

By Abeer Allam in Riyadh

Published: January 24 2011 12:13 | Last updated: January 24 2011 12:13

Saudi Arabia will be burning most of its oil production domestically in less than 20 years if current consumption patterns persist, a senior official has warned.

In response, http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/be10db70-225e-11e0-b91a-00144feab49a.html#axzz1Bq5svp4z">the authorities plan to cut reliance on fossil fuel and develop an alternative energy mix, including atomic and solar sources, as rising local demand could dramatically curtail the kingdom’s ability to export oil.

The world’s largest oil exporter will need 8m barrels a day by 2028, roughly equivalent to its current production, merely to meet domestic energy needs, Hashim Yamani, president of the King Abdullah Atomic and Renewable Energy City, said on the sidelines of a conference on Sunday. The kingdom currently burns a total of 3.2m/b a day, he said.



Mr Yamani said he expected to produce solar energy in commercial quantities “sooner” than atomic power. The latter will take from 8-to-10 years, he said. The kingdom, he said, is consulting with several countries on its nuclear plans and will probably use a mix of US, French, British, Korean and Japanese experience.

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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Yep... and that's one of the oddest "ands" in the book.
Yep... bread is usually made with flour AND salt. But there's a whole heck of a lot more flour than salt.

I sure wouldn't want to be seen in public cheering for the salt team. :rofl:
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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Solar can be put in place faster than nuclear
It’s that simple.
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Really? You can build 800-1000 of these puppies faster than ONE reactor?
Oh... wait... you mean that you can buiild one them faster than a reactor, don't you?

Wow... you really missed your calling as a payday lender (100 times over).

"I know 5,000% sounds like alot... but you really need this $50 today more than you need your paycheck in two weeks. Don't you?"

The problem with your argument is that the Saudis don't need $50 today. They need the whole paycheck in 10-20 years.

:rofl:
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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Strange notion of reality
Edited on Thu Feb-17-11 06:35 PM by OKIsItJustMe


Mr Yamani said he expected to produce solar energy in commercial quantities “sooner” than atomic power. The latter will take from 8-to-10 years, he said. The kingdom, he said, is consulting with several countries on its nuclear plans and will probably use a mix of US, French, British, Korean and Japanese experience.



I guess they should contact you to help them plan.
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Thanks for the label. Saves time reading your reply.
Edited on Thu Feb-17-11 06:40 PM by FBaggins
But I already knew that about you. :)

"Commercial quantities" still doesn't mean "anywhere close to equivalent quantities"

It doesn't change the fact that your "Big Way" (tm) is really a tiny drop in a massive bucket.

What's actually coming to SA "in a big way" is nuclear power.
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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. "Big way" was not my phrase
However, yes, “commercial quantities” means “big.”

And, even http://www.desertec.org/">bigger plans are in the works.
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. So do you think it is... or don't you?
You seem to want it both ways.

However, yes, “commercial quantities” means “big.”

So what description would you use for the amount of nuclear the intend to build over that 20-year period?

And, even bigger plans are in the works.

Yeah... right. Any other pipe dreams you want to sell while you're at it?

Drawing something on the back of a napkin doesn't mean it's "in the works". :rofl:
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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. You really have no interest in anything you don’t already believe. (Do you?)
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NickB79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-11 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. The very first line from your link: "Desertec is a concept proposed by the Desertec Foundation"
Do you have any information showing that ANY work has been started on the system itself, and not just another round of self-promoting, self-funded studies? Like, actual infrastructure being installed?
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. You need a :snotty: smilie for each of your posts in this thread...eom
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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Phoenix Solar builds solar power plant for the Saudi Arabian Oil Company in Riyadh
http://www.phoenixsolar.com/Press/PressReleases/_content/articles/PM_110214.html?uri=/Press/PressReleases/_content/articles/

Phoenix Solar builds solar power plant for the Saudi Arabian Oil Company in Riyadh

Sulzemoos, 14 February 2011 / Oman-based Phoenix Solar L.L.C., a subsidiary of Phoenix Solar AG (ISIN DE000A0BVU93), an international photovoltaic system integrator listed on the German TecDAX, is to build a solar park with a peak power of 3.5 megawatts for the Saudi Arabian Oil Company (Saudi Aramco). Saudi Aramco, the world’s largest oil producing company, commissioned Phoenix Solar last year to install a photovoltaic testing field designed to analyse different module technologies at its headquarters in Dhahran.

The solar power plant will be built on land where the King Abdullah Petroleum Studies and Research Center (KAPSARC) is currently under construction - close to Riyadh, the capital of Saudi Arabia. KAPSARC itself is the largest energy research centre in the world. The construction of KAPSARC is geared towards achieving LEED Platinum certification. The Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED), developed by the U.S. Green Building Council, is a system which rates green building and sets standards for sustainable building.

Together with Naizak Global Engineering Systems, its local project partner in Saudi Arabia, the task of Phoenix Solar will be to design and build the grid-connected ground-mounted photovoltaic plant by the end of September 2011. Phoenix Solar’s principal is M.R. Khathlan (MRK), a Saudi company which, in its capacity as general contractor, will design and build the electricity and water supply of KAPSARC.

The photovoltaic project was awarded through an international bidding procedure. Alongside Phoenix Solar’s cutting-edge competence in power plant construction and the presence of the company in the Gulf region, a determinant factor for winning the contract was the experience gathered by Phoenix Solar from the test facility.

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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Wow... a whopping 3.5 MW (when the sun is shining of course).
Edited on Thu Feb-17-11 06:25 PM by FBaggins
They do have "night" in Riyadh, right?
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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Yup
Edited on Thu Feb-17-11 07:21 PM by OKIsItJustMe
And your assumption is that this is the only plant that will be built, and that it is the only type of plant that will be built. (Right?)

Solar and Nuclear each have their disadvantages:

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/tribalenergy/guide/benefits_impacts.html


When looking at the environmental impacts and benefits of an energy solution, it is important to look at all parts of the energy life cycle, as well as long-term management and conservation of natural resources. All approaches have environmental impacts, but we can minimize them by understanding the impacts and making wise choices.

The following are brief discussions of the environmental benefits and impacts of some key technologies. It is important to note that they represent current technology. The challenges and problems of each are being worked on through research and development. …


http://www1.eere.energy.gov/tribalenergy/guide/benefits_impacts.html#nuclear

Nuclear Energy

Nuclear power plants require the mining, processing, transport, and disposal of nuclear materials. The processes used to generate electricity are relatively clean, and produce little air pollution, however large amounts of water are still used for cooling. Concerns regarding the environmental impacts of nuclear energy generally center on the transport and storage of nuclear waste, as well as on the potential for accidents. As a result, siting new nuclear plants has become a contentious issue, and there has not been a new nuclear plant ordered in the United States for over 20 years.



http://www1.eere.energy.gov/tribalenergy/guide/benefits_impacts.html#solar

Solar

Solar technologies directly convert the sunlight falling on the earth's surface to usable energy. The most common means of doing this are 1) photovoltaics (solar cells), that convert sunlight to electricity, 2) solar hot water, 3) solar heating, lighting, and cooling of buildings, 4) using solar energy for agricultural or industrial purposes such as crop drying, 5) concentrating solar power, whereby mirrors or troughs are used to superheat liquids that are then used for other purposes. For more information on solar technologies, see http://www1.eere.energy.gov/tribalenergy/guide/energy_technology_basics.html">Energy Technology Basics.

None of these technologies require the transportation of fuels. They have no emissions and produce no waste as a byproduct of their use. As a result, their environmental impacts are limited to siting issues, particularly, issues relating to their visual impact and any impact from land use. Roof-mounted solar energy systems can often avoid both of these impacts.

Hazardous chemicals are used in the manufacture of solar cells, creating environmental considerations in their manufacture and, in some cases, in their eventual disposal. Solar cell manufacturers minimize their use of these chemicals, recycle them when possible, and release a minimum of pollutants to the environment.

Some solar cells include minute amounts of heavy metals, such as cadmium. These materials are encapsulated in the solar modules and do not present any environmental threat during their use, but could have an adverse environmental impact when the solar panels are decommissioned (although the encapsulation will also minimize these concerns). To address these issues, the photovoltaic industry is examining the processes that would need to be in place to recycle cadmium-telluride solar modules when they reach the end of their useful life. For more information on issues related to cadmium use in solar cells, see http://www.nrel.gov/pv/cdte/">Cadmium Use in Photovoltaics: The Perceived Risk and the Scientific Evidence, a Web site provided by DOE's National Renewable Energy Laboratory.

Finally, if a battery bank is used to store the solar energy, battery disposal may be an issue, although most battery types can be recycled.



Of course with a concentrating solar plant, electricity can be produced round-the-clock (yes, even in the dark.)

http://www.eere.energy.gov/basics/renewable_energy/thermal_storage.html

Thermal Storage Systems for Concentrating Solar Power

One challenge facing the widespread use of solar energy is reduced or curtailed energy production when the sun sets or is blocked by clouds. Thermal energy storage provides a workable solution to this challenge.

In a concentrating solar power (CSP) system, the sun's rays are reflected onto a receiver, which creates heat that is used to generate electricity. If the receiver contains oil or molten salt as the heat-transfer medium, then the thermal energy can be stored for later use. This enables CSP systems to be cost-competitive options for providing clean, renewable energy.

Several thermal energy storage technologies have been tested and implemented since 1985. These include the two-tank direct system, two-tank indirect system, and single-tank thermocline system.



In the end, the Saudi’s don’t care what you or I (or the US DoE) think. The Saudi’s will do what makes the most financial sense to them.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. 3.5 megawatts? For half the day? Boy, they'll get to 40 gigawatts in no time.
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Why some solar there could make sense.
It's reasonable to assume that the SA of 20 years from now will have dramatically higher power demands during the day (from A/C) than at night. It makes sense to have some power generation that peaks at roughly the same times. It isn't as if you're going to turn off a reactor at night... and they want to reduce the amount of oil/gas they're using.

So it does make sense (assuming they can get prices down)... but it's ridiculous to think of it as that big a deal.
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AtheistCrusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Sure.
It's actually ideally suited for it. But the rollout rate is unimpressive, and will be for some time.

I'm not bagging it completely, just, like you say, criticizing the wording.
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-17-11 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
23. K&R 'cause not everyone gets to watch Jerry Springer. nt
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