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Cerium (IV) Oxide Cerium (III) Oxide Hydrogen Cycles As Proposed For Solar Thermal Systems.

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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-10 09:59 PM
Original message
Cerium (IV) Oxide Cerium (III) Oxide Hydrogen Cycles As Proposed For Solar Thermal Systems.
Edited on Sun May-30-10 10:11 PM by NNadir
Anyone who is familiar with my thinking is probably aware that my enthusiasm for solar energy has been continuously waning, particularly for PV energy, which has, in my view, a pretty profound energy/mass density problem that translates into high external costs, most of which center on toxicological issues.

The toxicology issue has failed to be noticed precisely because solar energy has failed to make a difference.

Distributed energy sucks, because by definition, all pollutants in it are distributed into the hands of people who have no idea whatsoever what they are handling. (What happened in the end to all those nickel/cadmium batteries, and all of those mercuric oxide batteries when we were done with them?)

As far as I can tell, the chief product produced by the solar industry is complacency, and mostly it is employed by less than "clued in" types to pretend that their toxic, BP fueled lifestyle is really "OK" because everything will be wonderful "by 2050." Personally I find this "by 2050" crap to be an overt expression of contempt for future generations, insisting that they do what we cannot and will not do now when we are destroying their planet.

Shame on us.

Around here in Princeton, we have the Princeton Plasma Physics Lab - my Congressman (and an excellent Congressman he is) Rush Holt used to be assistant director of research there. The Princeton Plasma Physics lab is devoted to trying to produce fusion energy.

It's a useless enterprise mostly - fusion energy is a pipe dream - but the fusion people have done some fundemental research on molten salt physics and chemistry, as well as neutronics, and materials science, and it is very useful to read research connected with fusion systems if one is interested in more realistic things. So I support funding for PPPL.

They have a nice nuclear science library in their facility and a very nice campus. Their scientists give nice displays and talks at local science talks for high schoolers, so they're OK in my book.

I also support funding for NREL, (the National Renewable Energy Laboratory) although I think the renewable energy business is unrealistic and is mostly hyped by Ponzi schemers, and people trying to scam money off of government grants for systems that will not last very long - something that is a terrible waste in a time of limited resources.

Not everything that comes out of NREL is useless.

I've spent most of this weekend thinking about hydrogen cycles, that split water at relatively low temperatures, at least when compared to the dissociation temperature of water, roughly 4000C.

I wrote two brief posts on the SI cycle, the "sulfur iodine" cycle here recently. It is the most advanced and best developed thermochemical hydrogen cycle.

There are many hundreds of hydrogen cycles however. About 90% of the papers one can read about hydrogen cycles are devoted to nuclear hydrogen, but roughly 10% are devoted to solar thermal systems.

Hydrogen is useless in my view, as a consumer retail fuel, but as a captive intermediate to produce petroleum free fuels like the wonder fuel DME, dimethyl ether, hydrogen is quite attractive.

There are two very excellent papers of the latter type that I read this weekend.

One is:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V50-4J6WN9D-1&_user=10&_coverDate=12%2F31%2F2006&_alid=1353357911&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_cdi=5772&_sort=r&_docanchor=&view=c&_ct=7&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=d2ce3fc97b4feeb3acb21326344c94cf">Solar Energy 80 (2006) 1611–1623

The other is:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V2S-4HTCTDG-1&_user=10&_coverDate=11%2F30%2F2006&_alid=1353354319&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_cdi=5710&_sort=r&_docanchor=&view=c&_ct=20&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=74add6fc61a833cc19fb4c61636d615f">Energy 31 (2006) 2805–2822

Both come out of a French renewable energy institution – how useless is that? – and both have the same principal author, Stéphane Abanades.

The second paper is a survey article entitled “Screening of water-splitting thermochemical cycles potentially attractive for hydrogen production by concentrated solar energy.” I am spectacularly uninterested in the author]s criteria for rejecting some of these cycles, but the listing of them is very valuable. I will spend weeks probably collecting and reading the references in this paper alone.

The other paper is about the cycle I refer to in the title of this post, the cerium (IV) oxide ↔ cerium (III) oxide Hydrogen Cycles.

This two step cycle is as follows:

CeO2 ↔ Ce2O3 + ½ O2 (≈ 2000C)

Ce2O3 + H2O ↔ H2 + CeO2 (400C - 600C)

As is always the case with hydrogen cycles, the net reaction is the disproportionation of water H2O ↔ H2 + ½ O2

This is a cool cycle because it requires only one reagent, and just two reactions.

(It’s not all that simple, but it’s a start.

Some excerpts from Abanades Solar Energy paper:

Alternative energy carrier such as hydrogen must be developed to face problems linked to the continuous rising of oil prices and to the global warming issue due to greenhouse effect. The use of solarenergy conversion systems for the production of hydrogen, which is a promising solar fuel, solves these problems.

Water-splitting thermochemical cycles coupled to a solar energy source constitute one of the ultimate option for hydrogen production (and solar energy storage) since this pathway does not use fossil fuel (diminishing global reserves and responsible for greenhouse gas emissions). In such thermochemical processes, a fraction of the solar energy supply is stored in the chemical products with respect to the process global efficiency.


I obviously don’t agree with the solar “Rah! Rah!” stuff. I think solar energy has a land use problem and much worse from an economic standpoint, a capacity utilization problem. Any system that will be operable for just 10% to 30% of the time is more than likely a loser.

I’d have more patience for this sort of thing if these were flush times, but we have diddled around too long and we are impoverished, whether we realize it yet or not.

But the chemistry is fun and interesting.

Like a good “solar will save us type” the author can’t avoid taking a swipe at the only scalable greenhouse gas free form of energy that operates on a ten exajoule scale, that would be nuclear energy.

Previous studies were focused on cycles that could be compatible with a nuclear heat source at about 900oC (Beghi, 1986; Yalcin, 1989; Funk, 2001; Brown et al., 2003). Higher temperatures can be considered with solar concentrating systems (in the wide range 400–2500oC), which lowers the number ofchemical steps in the cycles, thus the irreversibilitiesassociated to products separation and transferbetween stages (Abanades et al., in press).


This is pretty funny.

Then the author describes some apparatus and then performs the reaction. This is very, very, very cool. It, um, works, although the heater is conveniently not a solar heater – how then could he make his graduate students and post docs work late into the night?

The hydrolysis reaction was studied in an electrically heated reactor in order to control better the operating conditions (temperature in particular).Once implemented in a global process, the hydrolyser energy input could be ensured by heat recovery from the solar reactor or from any heat exchanger used in the cycle.


If you’re talking solar one should really lose that “control” thing. A cloud drifting by can put an end to that.

5. Conclusion

The feasibility of a new thermochemical two-step cycle has been experimentally demonstrated at lab scale. This process produces hydrogen from water and solar heat, and without fossil fuel and greenhouse gas emission. The solar energy supply (heat input) is thus converted and stored into a sustainable energy carrier thanks to a two-step process. The solar activation of Ce(IV) oxide was performed under concentrated solar irradiation that permits to reach the fusion of the material over 2000 _C and its thermal reduction by releasing O2 at reduced pressure. Then, the activated Ce(III) oxide reacted completely with water to produce hydrogen. The synthesis of a chemical intermediate (reduced cerium oxide) reactive with water also allows to solve safety problems associated with hydrogen storage and transportation. The solid material stable and storable at ambient temperature (its reactivity with water is not altered with time) could be used as hydrogen tank. Heating moderately the solid oxide in presence of water could release rapidly hydrogen on demand, which makes on-board hydrogen production possible with such a system. In some cases, this chemical intermediate synthesis could permit to counteract the important problem of hydrogen storage/transport. This paper is the first demonstration of the CeO2/Ce2O3 cycle since it has never been studied before. Optimization of the high temperature solar thermal step and design of solar chemical reactor able to achieve high conversion rates are now needed for a pilot-scale process implementation.


My sarcasm notwithstanding, this is, for all its flaws, an excellent paper, and I found it a very interesting read.

Have a nice Memorial Day.








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gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-10 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. What is the effiency of the cerium reactions?
CeO2 ↔ Ce2O3 + ½ O2 (≈ 2000C)

Ce2O3 + H2O ↔ H2 + CeO2 (400C - 600C)

That is, how much of the Ce in the process CeO2 ↔ Ce2O3 + ½ O2 ends up as something other than Ce2O3 or CeO2?

And similarly, how much of the Ce in the process Ce2O3 + H2O ↔ H2 + CeO2 ends up as something other than Ce2O3 or CeO2?

Anything less than 100% means that Ce may get consumed in the round-trip. And given that I don't know that I've even heard of Cerium since chemistry class, I fear that it is rare and expensive.
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-10 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. The author claims 23% solar to hydrogen efficiency without electricity as a side product, and 29%...
with it.

This is way better than PV efficiency, but below the theoretical efficiency of the sulfur iodine cycle which is better than 50%.

There are no side reactions and the yields are quantitative. That is the beauty of this system.

Cerium is not rare and expensive. It is the most commonly available lanthanide element. Mostly it is used in self-cleaning ovens and in lighting as well as in gas mantles, where it has more or less replaced thorium. There are fairly large deposits of it in the United States (in mines that closed for economic reasons), China and India.

Cerium is a common fission product in nuclear reactors, representing close to 10% of the fission products. Only one appreciably long lived isotope is found in this situation, Cerium-144, which has a half-life of only 284.89 days. Thus after 10-20 years of cooling, it is essentially non-radioactive.
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-10 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Since the cerium compounds are solids, and the rest gases, this isn't much of an issue.
Edited on Mon May-31-10 06:44 PM by eppur_se_muova
You just pipe in the H2O, pipe out the O2 and H2 (and unreacted H2O). The cerium, whatever compound it's in, doesn't evaporate or flow; it just sits in the reactor and gets recycled between the two oxides continuously. Always the best way to do any process, if you can.

You can buy cerium in the form of "Mischmetall", literally, mix-metal. It is produced from lanthanide ores by reducing all the lanthanides and iron simultaneously, so "Mischmetall" contains principally iron, cerium, lanthanum, and other rare earth elements. Mischmetall is used to make cigarette lighter flints, and other such spark generators. You can also buy iron-depleted Mischmetall relatively cheaply. The principal cost of producing pure cerium is the cost of separating it from the other lanthanides. For many applications, the other lanthanides are not harmful, so no need to purify too much, which saves money. At any rate, cerium is one Hell of a lot cheaper than platinum or palladium, which are routinely used as industrial catalysts -- and notice that cerium oxides are functioning "pseudo-catalytically" here. (Other uses besides lighter flints include ceramic glazes and abrasives -- CeO2 is an old standby for polishing optics.)
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-10 06:52 AM
Response to Original message
3. "Batteries" are not "distributed energy"
YOur thesis is feces
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-10 07:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Bullshit. Every "solar will save us" handwaver speaks of battteries or dangerous fossil fuels
as back up.

Other "solar will save us" energy storage systems are even worse. The ignorant freak Amory Lovins, now highly paid (off) by BP, one spoke of placing solar molten salt tanks in the back yards of every consumer in his suburban fantasy.

Now it happens that molten salts are great things in centralized systems, but centralized systems are run by engineers with a high degree of training in scientific concepts. Compare that to the general scientific level of the "solar will save us" set here, NOT ONE of whom shows even a trace of a shred of fragment of a mote of scientific knowledge, think of the ground water, and a rational person who does know science understands the risk.

The problem is that distributed energy places into the hands of people who are as ignorant of materials science as most of said handwavers are, materials that they don't understand in the least.

Have a nice vapid day.

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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-10 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. "think of the ground water"
"Think" you ought to read your words before you post
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-10 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. tell us about the NJ molten salt breeder reactor
it is a fraud - is it not?

:rofl:
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-10 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Telling a person about science who is clearly clueless on the topic would be useless.
Tell us about how solar energy saved the United States in the last 8 years that you've been ignoring BP because Amory Lovins, anti-nuke, works for many dangerous fossil fuel companies.

Of course, if one didn't hate numbers because they are completely over one's tiny little head, we could refer to them to decide if the "solar will save us" crowd is http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/solar.renewables/page/trends/table1.html">delusional or not.

From a purely moral standpoint - and I am fairly aware how difficult it is to describe ethical and moral positions to those who worship the dangerous fossil fuel executive officer for greenwashing via complacency, Amory Lovins - one might ask if we could hold the irresponsible twits who kept arguing that we should bet all the living tissue on the planet on the "solar will save us" chip.

But, as usual, besides being ignorant of science and technology, this set is ignorant and indifferent to responsibility, which is why one can tell that none of them have ever had a job more serious than cashing checks on the trust fund.

Have a nice http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x246887">"Drill! Baby! Drill! because I live in Maine and would http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/st_profiles/sept05me.xls">have to not log on my computer if I couldn't dump gas waste in the atmosphere.






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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-10 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. FYI during the last 8 years we had a pronucular antisolar anticonservation asshole GOP POTUS and VP
yup!

Oyster Creek to marine life in Barnegat Bay

Kill Babay KILL!!!!111

yup
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