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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-14-05 11:30 PM
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Government report gives new wind to green energy (UK)
By Geoffrey Lean, Environment Editor
15 May 2005


Wind power is better than nuclear power stations for tackling global warming, the Government's official environmental advisers will tell Tony Blair this week.

Their conclusion - after the most comprehensive study of wind energy in Britain - contradicts the Prime Minister's own opinion and could intensify the debate about building new nuclear power stations.

The Sustainable Development Commission's report - financed by the pro-nuclear Department of Trade and Industry - aims to start the fight-back against the increasing drive to build at least 10 new nuclear power stations in Britain. It sets out to correct "systematic misrepresentation" about wind power by influential nuclear advocates.

The Government's advisers on nuclear waste, the Committee on Radioactive Waste Management, warned last week that no decision should be taken to build new nuclear stations until it had determined how to dispose of its highly dangerous detritus. Margaret Beckett, the Secretary of State for the Environment, takes a similar position. <snip>

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/environment/story.jsp?story=638548

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StevieM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. I wish Margarett Beckett had become prime minister instead of.....
Tony Blair. She was the depuuty party leader under John Smith before he died. Then Blair became the leader, and John Prescott the number 2.

Becket led Labour for about 2 months after Smith's death. It should be noted that shortly before he died, John Smith led Labour to to a 25-point victory in local elections. Becket then led them to a 20-point victory in European Parlimentary elections. Blair only won his first election by 12.5 points. Yeah, he really rejuvinated the party. I get sick to my stomach every time I hear that lie.

Steve
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
2. This is a classic:
"no decision should be taken to build new nuclear stations until it had determined how to dispose of its highly dangerous detritus. Margaret Beckett, the Secretary of State for the Environment, takes a similar position."

And the carbon dioxide released by Britain is not, therefore, "highly dangerous detritus?" Not in the minds of the illiterate journalists, links to whom have been cluttering this site, one after another, in separate thread after thread this morning. From what I can tell from reading these "nuclear exceptionalism" the quality of journalism in the the UK is as bad as in the US. The articles, typical of the type of thinking that dooms our planet, mention nuclear problems and ignore problems with every other form of energy. In fact the form of waste that is going to hit Britain the hardest, and pretty damn quickly apparently, is the form of waste that is shutting down the gulf stream, on which Britain's climatic and economic stability wholly depends. Nevertheless, the eyes of all Britain's - judging from these illiterate links - are focused on a leaky pipe in a nuclear facility that needs to be fixed.

No wonder the British government found it so easy to "sex up" their justification for committing murder for Halliburton. Apparently journalists there, like journalists here, feel that if you repeat a lie enough you can make it must be true.

However, in spite of apparent stupidity on a scale that can only find in the other country to rape Iraq to keep access to that liquid fossil fuel, they have one thing right:

Wind power is generally superior to nuclear power in terms of impact and cost, and should be built whenever possible and practical. If recycled steel is used in construction, the greenhouse gas impact can be very small. I certainly don't debate this. I've been on record supporting wind power wherever proposed. The fact that wind power is viable is demonstrated by the capacity as measured in gigawatts. This capacity worldwide is 20-30 gigawatts, an impressive quantity, better than 5% of nuclear capacity, nuclear representing the world standard for clean, safe scalable energy. I have read that over 1 million American homes can be said to be powered by wind.

However wind power only works when the wind is blowing, a fact that seems lost on many of its proponents, some of whom engage in magical thinking, if they think at all. In the 2003 climate crisis in Germany, when people were literally dying from the heat, the country's entire wind capacity failed and produced zero energy. The nuclear plants in France, which provided some of the lost capacity were also in trouble, since they had to discharge heat at higher temperatures than are normally permitted.

These types of crises are going to become more and more and more common, because stupid people do not recognize that carbon dioxide is a dangerous waste, more dangerous than the heavy metals from coal and solar power, more dangerous than nuclear fission products, more dangerous than any other single threat to humanity.

This crisis will even stop worsening however as long as illiterate immoral twits pretend that fossil fuels are not dangerous, as long as people who could better spend their time getting a reasonable level of education spend their days cruising the Internet looking to justify their irrational fear of all things radioactive.

By the way, do you think the eyes of Britain will stare quite so hard at this as they stare at the harmless leaky "radioactive" (gasp) pipe, were such an accident to happen in Britain:

"Wind Turbine Accidents

WTC started operating a 500-kilowatt-capacity prototype turbine in Southern California’s Antelope Valley in early 2002, on Los Angeles Department of Water and Power property, according to Windpower Monthly.

In early June, Miles said, the rotor shaft to which the two blades are connected broke off the turbine tower and fell to the ground. The blades stayed on the shaft, and the tower and nacelle remained standing. "It would be analogous to a wheel coming off of your car," said Miles. This mishap near one of two branches of the Los Angeles Aqueduct caused no injuries or other damage, he added--except to his company.

DOE has "basically put things on hold" pending an investigation into why the accident happened, Miles said.

This follows another accident about a year earlier, with the same machine. Miles said an electronic device in the pitch system failed and led to a persistent "runaway condition" in which a blade "drove itself back upwind and into the tower, and took a chunk off of the tip of the blade."

He said it’s possible--but still unknown--that this earlier incident contributed to the rotor shaft break.

"Other than that, I guess the joke goes: ‘How was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?’" he said, adding, "The machine had performed pretty well, I’d say. We had no reason to believe there was anything really wrong with our concept..."

...Nevertheless, the $15 million contract awarded by DOE to The Wind Turbine Co. in 1997 (see Con.WEB, July 25, 1997) may be nearing an end. "The outcome of the failure analysis ... will help us decide what direction to move in," Simms said. "We don’t have money to continue beyond a few months ... unless The Wind Turbine Co. is able to find somebody who is willing to cost share to meet their <30-percent> cost-share obligations." Otherwise, "We’ll be closing out the contract, probably within a few months." This would have happened regardless of the accidents, he noted.

Miles said the project has rung up about $14 million in total expenses, including $12 million from DOE. The state of California pitched in nearly $1 million in 1998..."


http://www.newsdata.com/enernet/conweb/conweb91.html
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. The "leaky pipe" you are pooh-poohing in England squirted out ...
... about 20 tons of uranium and plutonium dissolved in nitric acid, producing such a gigantic mess that the best current advice of management at the reprocessing plant is that the facility's useful life is over and the place should simply be shut down.

Close nuclear leak plant for good, says Sellafield
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x23878

This industrial-sized headache results from the (by now) all-too-familiar inattention of the nuclear boys, who being convinced (as usual) that nothing could possibly go wrong with their favorite technology, simply neglected (over a period of many months!) to inspect for such a leak, with the result that a rather nasty puddle accumulated before anybody decided it was time to take a squint at the area ...
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Township75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
3. Seems like a good reason to support both wind and nuclear
From the article:
"The commission's 176-page report concludes that "wind power, along with other renewables, offers the only truly sustainable domestically sourced option for electric generation over the long term".

since I have never heard of any uranium mines in the UK, but I do hear about the wind, I bet wind is one of the only DOMESTICALLY SOURCED options as the article suggests.


"It also dismisses a claim by nuclear advocates that wind power is so unreliable that it will require expensive back-up from new conventional or nuclear power stations. "

it's a shame they didn't bother to describe the counter arguement to this claim by the nuclear industry. I would have liked to hear it.

I personally think AT THIS TIME, wind won't be able to supply the electricty of the new nuclear power plants that are proposed...but if there are enough people who do, I encourage them to invest the money and pay for them. If the wind turbines are going to offer the energy, you could make a lot of money in many, many, many countries supplying cheap, clean, renewable energy...if it is everything that its supporters claim it is.


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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Maybe you could wait until after you see the report (due out Thursday) ..
... to criticize what you consider its weaknesses and omissions ...
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Township75 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-15-05 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I am waiting for the report...
I never critized it either.

I agreed with the statement that wind is a better DOMESTIC source of energy for the UK than plutonium or uranium.

I critized the ARTICLE for mentioning that the report refutes claims that wind can't handle the energy demands of nuclear, yet didn't eloborate on it at all.
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