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SHRED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 09:58 AM
Original message
Where did green Obama go?


Is Obama trying to placate the RW corporate powers, as maybe a political move, when he advocates nuclear, coal, and drilling offshore?
I can't figure him out sometimes especially after hearing a speech he gave on the future of energy in the USA. It was on Air America's Al Franken Show and that "candidate version" of Obama spoke eloquently and very informed about green power sources. Where did he go?

I think sadly missing in the nuclear and coal debates are the mining pollution that occurs to feed both of these.
Mountain top removal and mining for nuclear plants are very toxic activities.
Also, when we talk of nuclear waste we must also examine coal mining waste disposal.
The whole process from building the power plants, to mining, to energy production, to waste disposal needs to be part of the discussion but is overlooked quite frequently.

Wind, solar, algae/plant biomass, hydrogen, electric commuter cars, etc...are the directions to head into the 21st century.

my 2 cents


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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. He put GE's anti-environment toadie in charge of environmental enforcement at DOJ. nt
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SHRED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. can you link me up?
I'd like to check him out.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Here's the Google link
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SHRED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. thanks!
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Glad to help!
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SHRED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Ignacia Moreno appears to be a terrible choice...I missed that one

GE, with the help of Moreno <2> (PDF), argued that it was not responsible for the Superfund site because it thought it had sold the waste to a company that was going to reuse it to make paint. GE said it didn't know that the waste was instead being dumped, according to court filings <3> (PDF).

"Nothing is ever cut and dried with a GE site," said RuthAnn Sherman, an EPA enforcement attorney working on that case. "They aggressively pursue every possible avenue and appeal everything."

A federal judge ruled against GE, but the company is now challenging the costs of the cleanup, Sherman said. Moreno withdrew <4> (PDF) from the case a week after her nomination was announced.

http://www.propublica.org/article/epa-attorneys-criticize-obama-nominee-706




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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. I followed the GE fracas intermittantly, so I caught this when he was nominated. nt
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. one of obama`s earmarks was for alge biomass for the military....
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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
8. If you had paid attention during the presidential campaign, you would have known that
he was for nuclear power if the waste could be disposed of safely and limited offshore drilling, but with more of a focus on green energy solutons...

He hasn't changed his position.
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SHRED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. And this compromised ground...
Edited on Sun Jan-31-10 10:20 AM by SHRED
...is the exact reason he is falling in the polls and why the Democratic Party is falling also.

Enough of the "if nuclear waste can be disposed of safely...blah...blah...blah" nonsense.

Time to grow a pair and quite compromising on energy, heath care, and financial help for the middle class.
The other party would have how much legislation passed if they had such majorities, and the Executive Branch?

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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. My way or the highway isn't the democracy that the founding fathers envisioned.
Edited on Sun Jan-31-10 10:24 AM by Windy
You have to work within our established democracy to get things done and that will always involved compromise. If you don't work within democracy, you have a dictatorship. Read some civics, then focus your angst on congress.
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SHRED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. You make a good point...

...but is there any compromise coming from the Republican(Conservative) side?
How do you work with that when they refuse?


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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. Our corporate "citizens" never compromise
They may suffer temporary setbacks. They may have to settle for 10% this time. But they never die, they never forget, and they always come back for another bite of the apple. I don't think this is quite what Adams and Jefferson and Madison had in mind.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. He seems to now be for nuclear power even though we still don't have a waste-disposal strategy. (NT)
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
9. He's been drowned in red ink
and unless he makes the toughest choice of all and calls for Pentagon budget cuts, he's gone forever.
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
11. To paraphrase Chris Matthews
I forgot he was green.
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
15. when he talked about "clean coal" during the campaign, knew he wasn't green.
Edited on Sun Jan-31-10 11:19 AM by niyad
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. The 'clean' coal issue was interesting, as was his take on it. He's a politician. Folks forget that
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. I never forget it.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. the same banks
that gave so much $$$$$$$ to O's campaign, also support coal:


"The two largest banks in the world are the leading financiers of a new U.S.
“Coal Rush” that will result in the construction of more than 150 coal-fired
power plants across the country—a recipe for climate destruction.

Transitioning to a clean energy future that prioritizes energy efficiency and
clean, renewable sources like solar and wind power will allow us to meet
our future energy needs, build a stronger economy, keep our communities
healthy, and curb climate change.

But as long as Citi and Bank of America continue to fund dirty energy, they
are holding back the resources needed for clean energy to flourish.

snip

Citi (formerly Citigroup) is a leading financier of fossil fuel energy and the world’s top financier of coal.13 According to Forbes, Citi’s assets of $2.2 trillion make it not just the world's largest bank, but its biggest company.

snip

.......providing financing to mining companies that practice mountaintop removal (MTR), including
Massey Energy, Arch Coal, Alpha Natural Resources and others.19 These companies
are responsible for the loss of more than a million acres of Appalachian forests and mountains, the devastation of communities, poisoned water supplies, and rampant poverty throughout the
region. Citi is continuing to bankroll this destruction of communities and ecosystems
despite massive public opposition to MTR.

snip

coal is the single biggest greenhouse gas polluter in the U.S., dumping 163 million
tons of CO2 into the atmosphere every year. It is also America’s biggest emitter of
toxic mercury and directly responsible for every body of water in Ohio being under
a health advisory due to high levels of mercury found in the fish.

http://ran.org/fileadmin/materials/comms/mediacontent/r...







The Dirty Truth About "Clean" Coal


QUICK & DIRTY FACTS:

So-called “clean coal” doesn’t address the massive social and environmental costs of mining,transporting and refining coal.



Zero emissions clean coal is highly speculative and decades away from wide scale deployment.



Factoring in the true costs of coal, our environment, health, climate and econ-omy will fare far better if we switch to clean,renewable energy sources immedately.



U.S. power plants produce 1.9 billion tons of C02 every year. Even if capturing and storing this waste is theoretically possible – why create it in the first place?




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


America’s biggest source of electricity comes with a price. In addition to pumping out half of our electricity, coal-fired power plants emit more climate-changing greenhouse gases than any other source. Proponents of our continued reliance on fossil fuels often argue that a new generation of “clean coal” technology is emerging and that it will allow us to not just continue using coal – but to use even greater amounts of it!


Currently, the term “clean coal” covers everything from scrubbers on conventional coal plants to marginally more efficient burning processes to futuristic “near-zero emission” technologies that may never be technologically, economically or socially viable. But even if so-called “clean coal” technologies were available, would they be the best solution?


What the coal industry conveniently omits from its sales pitch is the fact that the entire life cycle of coal is dirty. Before it is burned, coal must be mined, transported and refined. Coal extraction leads to entire mountain ranges destroyed by strip mining; rising rates of asthma and lung disease; water pollution; and the creation of massive amounts of toxic wastes. Coal enthusiasts never mention what it takes to get coal out of the ground in the first place.


IS IGCC OR “COAL GASIFICATION” VIABLE?

IGCC (Integrative Gasification Combined Cycle) is the most commonly cited technology masquerading as clean coal. The basic idea is to convert coal from a solid into a synthetic gas. The gas powers a turbine, and the resulting heat propels a steam turbine to generate electricity. While IGCC plants can be slightly more efficient and less polluting than traditional coal plants, the technology is unproven and unreliable. Only three IGCC plants have been built in the U.S., all largely funded by the government as commercial test projects. One failed and was abandoned, and the other two have suffered from operating problems and reliability rates that would never be acceptable for a commercial plant. The heavily marketed story of IGCC is that the technology will make it easier to capture C02 emissions at some undetermined point in the future. However, of the 151 new coal power plants currently under development across the country, only 34 are planning to use IGCC technology, and none of these are being designed to capture their emissions! Proponents say that IGCC plants are “capture-ready,” which is a bit like saying your driveway is “Porsche-ready.


CAN CARBON CAPTURE AND SEQUESTRATION WORK?

The other buzz words associated with clean coal are “carbon capture and sequestration,” or CCS. The concept of CCS is that we can curb climate change by capturing the emissions from coal plants and storing them underground, safely away from our atmos-phere for eternity. The most glaring flaw in this concept is that CCS technology is not likely to be a commercially viable option for at least another decade, and new coal-fired plants are slated to begin construction now. There are also no working models of CCS at a commercial-scale power plant anywhere in the world. Why not? Read on.


snip

Proposals for carbon storage locations include underground depleted oil and gas fields, unmineable coal seams, and even in our oceans. Underground storage of the 1.9 billion tons of C02 waste produced annually by U.S. coal plants is hugely problematic and likely impossible. Carbon dioxide is a colorless, odorless gas that can be fatal to humans exposed to high concentrations. In 1986, a C02 leak killed nearly 1,800 people instantly in Lake Nyos, Cameroon. The leak was but a tiny fraction of the amount of C02 we would need to store annually from coal plants.

snip

According to estimates, using CCS on a typical plant would require a 40 percent energy increase. So, even if carbon emissions could be captured and stored, other air pollutants would actually increase due to the additional fuel being burned.

snip

In 2006, the Environmental Protection Agency estimated that capturing 90 percent of CO2 emissions from IGCC plants would increase the total cost of electricity by 38 percent. The EPA’s definition of “capture” does not include transportation of gas, storage, or the monitoring needed at storage sites for decades to come. Some estimates that include both capture and storage predict a doubling of the cost of electricity, which would make CCS prohibitively expensive.

snip

http://action.ran.org/index.php/The_Dirty_Truth_About_%...


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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
17. I'd like to think that it's a trick - he says clean coal, knowing there's no such thing...
...and talks about safe storage of nuclear waste, knowing there's no such thing.

I wish he would say in no uncertain terms that we must move away from these old technologies and lead the world in green energy, but he seems to have a need to play games with both sides.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
19. Nuclear is as green as it gets. For many, many, many reasons.
And coal is about as dirty as it gets.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. "nuclear is as green as it gets"
:rofl:
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
21. "Where did green Obama go?"
The same place the Pro-LABOR, Pro-Working Class, Pro-Rule of LAW, Pro-Equal Rights, "Liberal" Obama went.

If you find "Green" Obama, please look for all the others.
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-31-10 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
24. Cimate change has fallen off everybody's radar lately
It was all the talk during the Copenhagen meeting. Now you never hear a peep about it.
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