Arctic Scientists Increasingly Bitter, Frustrated By Funding Struggles, Public Ignorance & Apathy

[hatrack]

EDIT

For the past 11 years, Hansen has been positioning himself at the same spot on Fram Strait, between Greenland and the Spitzberg (administered by Norway). He measures currents, temperatures and the salinity of the slowly warming Arctic waters which promise to bring a king tide of climate change to Northern Europe.

That's millions of euros for every expedition, to pay a staff of 30, an ice-breaker with a laboratory and a helicopter. Plus a continuous fight to get fresh cash to continue research, which takes up most of Hansen's energy. "It takes years getting a graph out" from which to draw scientific conclusions, he points out with some bitterness. "I'm frustrated by the lack of willingness to understand. The general problem in the field is the lack of respect for the knowledge of climate scientists."

Jan-Gunnar Winther, director of the Norwegian Polar Institute, regrets that half of the population of Norway "doesn't believe in climate change," compared to 97 percent of scientists. "That worries me because the general public has a connection to politicians. They are voters," he said. "We need to act and it's the politicians' responsibility to act."

"Arctic glaciers are melting, over 10 years you can see the changes with your own eyes," but for the general public "it's mentally very difficult to understand," Winther concedes. And rich Norwegians don't want to change their comfortable way of life, like most people living in the Northern hemisphere.

EDIT

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=31&art_id=nw20091111071714405C661940

[phantom power]

1. But... the Lexus payments... Who will make them....?

[ananda]

2. Denial aint a river in Egypt.

nt

[BeFree]

3. Welcome to the nightmare...

...Arctic Scientists.

We forest based specie have been there, done that.

[n2doc]

4. Frankly he is not doing it right

Long term monitoring needs to be done by automated systems. He and others need to be thinking and deploying ocean observing systems that can withstand the conditions there. Spending millions of euros to run out there to collect samples is not a long term strategy, it is a 19th century strategy.

[hatrack]

5. It's very possible that these expeditions are platforms for dozens of scientific projects

Some may be possible using only automated systems, but I would guess that many likely can't.

[XemaSab]

6. I'm not sure how you would set up an automated system up there

that wouldn't require a boat with 30 scientists to go up there every year.

You could probably anchor a buoy to the seafloor, but the ice around it might crush it or yank it loose. :shrug:

[n2doc]

7. There is a lot of interesting tech being designed now for ocean observing

Upward facing ADCP's would provide ice thickness and current velocities, chains of CTD would provide salinity, temp and density, all could be placed below the ice layer. The big problem is getting the data out, and in servicing. That is being worked out now along the western US coast.

My biggest issue with this release is the crybaby aspect. This guy hates having to work to keep "his empire" going. I know a lot of these greybeard types who feel that they should automatically be funded no matter how closed a shop they run or how out of date some of their techniques are. I do think the science is worthwhile, but money is tight and no mention is made of other equally worthwhile projects that are going without funding because this guy has to have his empire.

[joshcryer]

8. Automated systems that can cope with the melting at the north pole?

I'd love to see a design, but since the north pole ice is constantly receding every year an automated system is going to have to be able to move itself.

He's taking a swath of ice core samples from the north pole, this accurately measures thickness. Satellites can get volume data generally but what he's doing is important.

He could *probably* reduce his costs by timing his expeditions with other groups and riding their coat-tails (say an American expedition that takes him most of the way), it may not result in the kind of data he wants, but it's a start.

Other than that I can't see how ice cores can be done "remotely."

[abqmufc]

9. Ummm we losing the point here.....

It's not about the cost or the methodology (OK it is to a degree and to some that is all its about). This is about scientists and people in the field at a point where they (we) all stand around wonder WTF people....why are you not getting this?

We can bicker over the methodlogy (manual or automated) or the dollar amounts of an expedition (many obviously have never tried to get North of the Arctic Circle in Alaska or anywhere else....it costs lots of money and one needs lots of time as one gets stuck)...but the point is the scientific community is saying WTF b/c they have been saying and showing that it's pretty bad.

For me I just wonder why don't people listen to the cultures that have a consisent oral history of a land or water for thousands of years? I hope Obama meant it when he said last week "environmental integrity on tribal lands is a priority for my Administration.....tribes will not be forgotten."

Ask any trbial member, they will tell you what is going on b/c most are still tied to the lands that they have held in trust for thousands of years.

I spend a great deal of time working with the Alaskan Villages and the elders. They too wonder why nobody is getting it....to them it is clear as day and they don't get why we need "all this proof when the reality stares at you?"

[malakai2]

10. That's what I took away from it

But that's been my personal experience. Very hard to relay conceptual data to a public that doesn't understand how you arrived at your conclusions, and frankly doesn't care what the conclusions are. The TV says it's not a problem. And speaking of TV, Dancing with the Stars is on, so...