Re CO2 footprint: Is a vegan in a Hummer better than a beef eater in a Prius?

[wtmusic]

"Want to give your public pronouncement a little zing? Try throwing in the words Hummer and Prius and imply that the SUV is better for the earth than the Prius. CNW sure knows the value of making the false claim. Last week, author Michael Pollan tried a similar trick when he said at the 2009 Poptech conference that, 'A vegan in a Hummer has a lighter carbon footprint than a beef eater in a Prius.' Guess who's had to issue a mea culpa?"

"Pollan, who wrote The Botany of Desire, The Omnivore's Dilemma and other books, was blasted by people armed with facts. Specifically, Gidon Eshel and Pamela Martin from the University of Chicago found that shifting from eating meat to veganism saved about 2 tons of CO2 equivalent per person per year. A Hummer driver, on the other hand, emits 4.76 tons more per year than a Prius."

http://green.autoblog.com/2009/10/30/eating-his-words-michael-pollan-retracts-hummer-vegan-prius-mea/

[Teaser]

1. facts are good things

.

[FSogol]

2. My green #$%@ is bigger than your green #$%@

:shrug:

[wtmusic]

9. That ain't what your green wife told me

:wow:

[earthside]

3. Can We Talk About ...

... the carbon footprint of pet dogs again, too?

[TheWraith]

4. No we may not. nt

[arissa]

5. Pollan's unnecessary use of hyperbole with the Hummer reference doesn't

discredit the underlying truth of what he was trying to get at. The University of Chicago found that going vegan is 50% more effective at reducing greenhouse gas emissions than switching to a Prius. (http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/06/060413.diet.shtml)

Why? Because methane and nitrous oxide are also greenhouse gases and produced in huge quantities when raising livestock, so you can't compare just co2 emissions.

A United Nations report found that global livestock production produces more greenhouse gases than all the world's transportation combined. (http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/12/un_report_globa.html)

And this doesn't even start to take into account the amount of water wasted, water polluted, land degradation, and other environmental impacts of livestock raising.

Pollan's point is that people should be more concerned with the environmental impact of their food, and it's a valid point.

[glitch]

6. Facts sure can take the humor out of false zings! :)

Any comparison that doesn't take water and methane into account is embarrassingly shallow.

Nobody beats the Prius-driving vegans. Except! The bicycling-vegans. :evilgrin:

[Teaser]

11. I'm concerned with the environmental impact of my food

but I'm still ain't going vegan.

[kristopher]

14. They didn't just compare CO2 emissions

The OP uses CO2e meaning that all GHGs are considered.

[IrateCitizen]

7. It depends significantly on how the beef was raised, along with how far the vegetables traveled.

If a vegan in NY is eating veggies grown in Chile during February, then that's not very sustainable.

Likewise, if a meat-eater is dining on locally-raised, grass-fed beef, it is much more sustainable.

Also, does the Hummer driver travel a short round-trip commute or a long one? Does he carpool? Does the Prius owner trek 150-200 miles round trip every day?

[wtmusic]

8. All good points, and why blanket statements like this

are really only good at initiating discourse.

Without hard facts about your own situation, you can twist the argument to justify any POV.

[Javaman]

10. Also is the prius used or new?

Since it takes roughly between 15 an 25 barrels of oil to make a single car. Not even taking into account the amount of water needed as well.

Also was the prius, whether it was used or new, built here in the states or in Japan? Transporting cars via cargo ship uses huge amounts of bunker C oil.

[JohnWxy]

12. THe GHG emissions from cattle exceeds the GHG output from the transportation sector world-wide.

THis should not be construed as an endorsement of the use of Hummers just pointing out something not widely recognized.

[wtmusic]

13. There are few facts which will throw a significant percentage of DU into

kneejerk, vitriolic, full-defense mode. That is one of them (I made the mistake of dedicating an entire thread to it once).

Hands off my firearms/cigarettes/bacon.

[joshcryer]

15. A vegan in America vs a Vegan on, say, a deserted island.

Better metric.

[imdjh]

18. Why do people always assume that vegan or vegetarian means eating uncooked local organic produce?

When I go to our pricy local health food store, the food bar has several selections. Almost everything is soaking in or floating in olive oil. My guess would be that many of the ingredients are imported.

[zbikerwy]

16. vegan in beef country

as the old saying goes "What does vegan stand for in the crow language ?? (answer - Bad hunter )
that aside, my opinion from the heart of beef country in wyoming is that blaming cattle for the gas emissions produced causing global warming is plain bunk. it's a wonder that all the wilda beasts,zebras,antelope and gazelle on the african plains are never referred to when this issue comes up.
now back to the original question, which is worse ?? i would haft to go with a vegan in a hummer, he obviously has more money than most here and after a bowl of beans is as deadly to the environment as any cow calf combo, and probably could care less about any footprint, carbon or otherwise

[imdjh]

17. Yeah, but what about four people on scooters? Or two people on Harleys?

Four people on scooters are getting about 20MPG overall.

Two or four people on two Harleys are getting about 17MPG overall.

So I guess if your "other car" is an F350 dually then your Harleys are better, but not much.