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TheOregonian: New report (by 200 economists) urges quick, aggressive action to stem carbon emissions

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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 10:41 AM
Original message
TheOregonian: New report (by 200 economists) urges quick, aggressive action to stem carbon emissions
http://www.oregonlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2009/10/new_report_urges_quick_aggress.html

New report urges quick, aggressive action to stem carbon emissions

By Abby Haight, The Oregonian
October 05, 2009, 7:00AM

A group of economists have come up with a simple formula for climate stabilization: Pay now, or pay a whole lot more later.

The sound way to deal with the threats of climate change is to spend the money now to rapidly convert the world to carbon-free energy, according to a report that debunks claims that acting quickly will destroy the world economy.

"http://www.e3network.org/papers/Economics_of_350.pdf">The Economics of 350" looks at the benefits and costs of climate action. The report arrives as world leaders prepare for the http://en.cop15.dk/">United Nations summit on climate change this December in Copenhagen, as the U.S. Congress grapples with bills to reduce greenhouse emissions and as a grassroots movement -- http://www.350.org/">350.org -- gains momentum toward its Oct. 24 International Day of Climate Action.

The report was released this week by http://www.e3network.org/">Economics for Equity and the Environment, a network of 200 economists that is a project of Portland-based http://www.ecotrust.org/">Ecotrust.

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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. REcommended. We are out of time for endless debate. We're about to go over a cliff.
Edited on Tue Oct-06-09 02:25 PM by JohnWxy
These climate changes are going to come sooner than the models had been predicting. Everybody is updating their models to incorporate newer data which shows the acceleration of warming is greater than previously thought. The scientists know it but they have been talking mostly to each other. They have not done a very good job getting the public to realize we are out of time for debate. What is needed is action. NOW..

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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. A simple question
If the government said the solution was to start building lots of nuclear power plants, would you oppose them? What if the government responded by saying: "We are out of time for debate, what is needed is action. Shut up and get in line."

The point is this. Even if we agree that climate change is a problem, there are still many different opinions on what to do. The only way to resolve those differences is through discourse and debate.
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JohnWxy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I submit that science provides some answers now, although I know invoking science is something many
find counter to their particular religion. There are things that can be done now which are not being done. In a few years I expect these methods will be recognized as effective, but by then it will probably be too late for them to have enough of an impact.

Please be advised, I am not into religion or demogoguery. My interest is in the emperically demonstrable, the practicable, the do-able. Alas, this seems to put me in a minority these days.





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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I agree, Science should govern the decisionmaking
http://www.rsc.org/publishing/journals/EE/article.asp?doi=b809990c

Energy Environ. Sci., 2009, 2, 148 - 173, DOI: 10.1039/b809990c
Review of solutions to global warming, air pollution, and energy security

Mark Z. Jacobson

This paper reviews and ranks major proposed energy-related solutions to global warming, air pollution mortality, and energy security while considering other impacts of the proposed solutions, such as on water supply, land use, wildlife, resource availability, thermal pollution, water chemical pollution, nuclear proliferation, and undernutrition.

Nine electric power sources and two liquid fuel options are considered. The electricity sources include solar-photovoltaics (PV), concentrated solar power (CSP), wind, geothermal, hydroelectric, wave, tidal, nuclear, and coal with carbon capture and storage (CCS) technology. The liquid fuel options include corn-ethanol (E85) and cellulosic-E85. To place the electric and liquid fuel sources on an equal footing, we examine their comparative abilities to address the problems mentioned by powering new-technology vehicles, including battery-electric vehicles (BEVs), hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (HFCVs), and flex-fuel vehicles run on E85.

Twelve combinations of energy source-vehicle type are considered. Upon ranking and weighting each combination with respect to each of 11 impact categories, four clear divisions of ranking, or tiers, emerge.

Tier 1 (highest-ranked) includes wind-BEVs and wind-HFCVs.
Tier 2 includes CSP-BEVs, geothermal-BEVs, PV-BEVs, tidal-BEVs, and wave-BEVs.
Tier 3 includes hydro-BEVs, nuclear-BEVs, and CCS-BEVs.
Tier 4 includes corn- and cellulosic-E85.

Wind-BEVs ranked first in seven out of 11 categories, including the two most important, mortality and climate damage reduction. Although HFCVs are much less efficient than BEVs, wind-HFCVs are still very clean and were ranked second among all combinations.

Tier 2 options provide significant benefits and are recommended.

Tier 3 options are less desirable. However, hydroelectricity, which was ranked ahead of coal-CCS and nuclear with respect to climate and health, is an excellent load balancer, thus recommended.

The Tier 4 combinations (cellulosic- and corn-E85) were ranked lowest overall and with respect to climate, air pollution, land use, wildlife damage, and chemical waste. Cellulosic-E85 ranked lower than corn-E85 overall, primarily due to its potentially larger land footprint based on new data and its higher upstream air pollution emissions than corn-E85.

Whereas cellulosic-E85 may cause the greatest average human mortality, nuclear-BEVs cause the greatest upper-limit mortality risk due to the expansion of plutonium separation and uranium enrichment in nuclear energy facilities worldwide. Wind-BEVs and CSP-BEVs cause the least mortality.

The footprint area of wind-BEVs is 2–6 orders of magnitude less than that of any other option. Because of their low footprint and pollution, wind-BEVs cause the least wildlife loss.

The largest consumer of water is corn-E85. The smallest are wind-, tidal-, and wave-BEVs.

The US could theoretically replace all 2007 onroad vehicles with BEVs powered by 73000–144000 5 MW wind turbines, less than the 300000 airplanes the US produced during World War II, reducing US CO2 by 32.5–32.7% and nearly eliminating 15000/yr vehicle-related air pollution deaths in 2020.

In sum, use of wind, CSP, geothermal, tidal, PV, wave, and hydro to provide electricity for BEVs and HFCVs and, by extension, electricity for the residential, industrial, and commercial sectors, will result in the most benefit among the options considered. The combination of these technologies should be advanced as a solution to global warming, air pollution, and energy security. Coal-CCS and nuclear offer less benefit thus represent an opportunity cost loss, and the biofuel options provide no certain benefit and the greatest negative impacts.


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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Are you familiar with any other studies?
Edited on Tue Oct-06-09 06:08 PM by OKIsItJustMe
You seem to believe this one is some sort of panacea.
“A man with a watch knows what time it is; a man with two watches is never sure.”

— Mark Twain



Surrendering our fate to “science” would be much easier, if “science” spoke with one clear voice, as you suggest it does. But “science” does not share your certainty.

http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/v42_2_09/article05.shtml

Both directions at once

Problem: Can America simultaneously achieve energy independence and address global warming?

The challenge of controlling climate change is a goal that, to many, appears to be at odds with the equally important goal of energy security. However, the idea that the two goals are somehow mutually exclusive is not one accepted by ORNL energy researcher David Greene. "We don't want to sacrifice one for the other," he says. "We want—and we believe it possible—to achieve environmental goals and energy security goals at the same time.

"To help determine which technologies have the greatest potential for reaching these goals, Greene and a multidisciplinary group of researchers from across the laboratory conducted the ORNL Energy Assurance Study to determine (1) which energy goals are feasible, (2) the technologies needed to realize these goals, and (3) where best to deploy research and development efforts.

"The good news," says Greene, "is that, with technology advances in most areas, the goals are achievable. More good news is that, if we can master carbon capture and storage and identify environmentally acceptable ways of producing domestic fossil fuels, then the conflict between climate and energy security goals will be very, very small."

Greene contends the real challenge is to assure a high probability of success for 11 specific technologies. "This means that we must pursue all 11 as if we needed every one to succeed," he says.

The Energy Assurance Study had two fundamental premises: First, we must control climate change and solve the global problem of oil dependence. Second, achieving these two broad goals at an acceptable financial cost will depend upon advanced technologies. The uncertainty lies in advancing any area of technology to the point of making a significant contribution. "The focus on this uncertainty enables our study to provide a different perspective on the importance of research and development," Greene says.

Defining the Goals

Greene notes that while many studies have focused on the feasibility and cost of achieving climate goals, only a few have considered the energy security side of the equation—and many of these studies have posited the impractical goals of an oil-free economy or the elimination of oil imports. "Both of these positions are too extreme and not reasonable," Greene says. "We want to achieve a situation in which our economy and foreign policy are free from the undue influence of nations that supply oil, where we don't worry about the price of oil any more than we worry about the price of copper."

Greene and his colleagues have developed a model of the world oil market that enables them to project whether a particular set of strategies would result in oil independence. The model takes account of oil market uncertainty by simulating thousands of possible future scenarios. Using this model, they have determined that oil independence—defined as a situation in which it is 95% likely that the nation will spend less than 1% of its gross domestic product on oil in any given year—could be achieved by 2030 through improving America's petroleum supply/demand balance by 11 million barrels a day.

Greene stresses that energy independence does not mean absolute independence from imported oil. "The key," he says, "is shrinking U.S. potential economic vulnerability to a small and manageable problem." This is done by decreasing demand through energy efficiency and increasing supply through the use of more environmentally benign fossil fuels. "Imports will certainly go down a great deal," Greene observes, "but they need not be eliminated and are not the sole focus."

On the climate front, most studies estimate that the world will need to reduce greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions 50 to 80 percent—a significant range—by 2050 in order to stabilize atmospheric CO2 at levels that will avoid dangerous climate changes.

"In our study, we assumed that we want to do both of these things at the same time," Greene says. "Secondly, we recognized that not every technology we need will be available. Progress with every technology is not a sure thing. Even technologies we are fairly sure of are not a done deal."

Assessing the Options

To develop a comprehensive picture of current and near-future policy options, ORNL scientists and engineers were asked to provide assessments of the technologies they thought would be the most effective in meeting the climate and energy goals.

"A study like this requires experts in every phase of the energy system—people who know the electricity grid, transportation, solar energy, nuclear energy, and so on," says Greene. "The credibility of the study really rests on those folks. Only a place like ORNL with a breadth of research and a high level of expertise can undertake a project on this scale."

The group's study examined these broad technologies:
  • Carbon capture and storage
  • Nuclear power
  • Transportation energy efficiency
  • Wind
  • Buildings energy efficiency
  • Solar
  • Industrial energy efficiency
  • Biomass
  • Electric drive vehicles
  • Advanced fossil liquid fuels
  • Efficient electricity generation and transmission
The study's authors took a novel approach to determining which technologies would be available to address the problems. "People usually build scenarios," Greene said. "They assume we will have certain technologies and that these technologies will cost a specific amount of money. Based on this rigid scenario they determine what the future would look like." In contrast, the ORNL study approaches the problem from a different perspective: Inserting a level of uncertainty about which, if any, of these technologies will be available and in what year, the study seeks to understand the chances of solving the twin challenges of energy security and climate change. Perhaps even more intriguing, the study seeks to determine which of the 11 technologies are indispensable parts of the solution.

Using the data gathered from ORNL researchers, as well as from other studies by the International Energy Agency and the National Academy of Sciences, the technologies were analyzed in terms of their impact on U.S. oil dependence in 2030 and on global GHG emissions in 2050."

Critical Technologies

The results indicate several combinations of technologies are capable of reaching the goal of oil independence in 2030. The team took encouragement from the fact that some of these combinations could also achieve up to a 70% reduction in GHG by 2050.

The group next looked at the combinations that solved both problems, seeking to identify which technologies were critical. "For example," says Greene, "what if wind power or nuclear remain at current levels?" Greene explains that, if policymakers want 95% certainty that the challenges of oil independence and GHG emissions can be solved simultaneously, the crucial question is, "How confident do we have to be that any single technology will be successful?" "It turns out that we need to be at least 50-50 or better on every technology," he says. "The message is that we really must work hard on developing all of these technologies to be sure that most of them will be available."

"The only technology that was absolutely essential to meeting the greenhouse gas goal was carbon capture and sequestration (CCS)," Greene says. "Similarly, advanced fossil technologies, like oil shale, coal to liquids, and environmentally safe oil drilling, were shown to be absolutely essential to meeting our oil dependence goal."

Other technologies, such as transportation energy efficiency, were also important, but only the removal of CCS and advanced fossil technologies resulted in zero probability of meeting GHG and energy independence goals.

The study made clear a final point: Time is of the essence. "We cannot just sit back and wait for someone to invent something to take care of the problem," Greene says.

"The success of our efforts to address climate change and energy security has a critical dependence on advancing technology," says Greene. "This study is just a starting point for understanding and measuring the importance of energy research to the lives of our children."

###


“The only technology that was absolutely essential to meeting the greenhouse gas goal was carbon capture and sequestration.”

— David Greene (ORNL energy researcher)

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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Panacea?
Panacea is a remedy for all ills, so I have no idea what that means in this context.

Yes I've read a very wide array of studies on the topic, but Jacobson's is the most comprehensive and answers more questions than any other that I've seen.

For example the one you are quoting above is aimed at a specific question that reflects a full set of questionable assumptions:
"Greene notes that while many studies have focused on the feasibility and cost of achieving climate goals, only a few have considered the energy security side of the equation—and many of these studies have posited the impractical goals of an oil-free economy or the elimination of oil imports. "Both of these positions are too extreme and not reasonable," Greene says. "We want to achieve a situation in which our economy and foreign policy are free from the undue influence of nations that supply oil, where we don't worry about the price of oil any more than we worry about the price of copper.""
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OKIsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Yes, a panacea
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/panacea
a remedy for all ills or difficulties


You apparently believe that citing one study is the answer to all difficult questions. (Or, perhaps, that by dint of repetition, you give it greater weight.)

I have previously stated that I have reservations about that study, and (frankly) I have greater faith in the ability of a diverse panel of experts to come up with a reasonable answer.
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Well, having seen some of your conclusions,
I'll give your opinion due weight.
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Science only gets you so far
For example, the science of nuclear power and radioactive waste are well understood and have been for years. Some people look at the risks and find them acceptable, some people look at the risks and think they are not. The science is settled, but the debate continues.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. The science isn't as well understood as you seem to believe.
Edited on Tue Oct-06-09 08:51 PM by bananas
For example, it was only recently that South Africa realized the PBMR can melt down and requires a massive containment structure. That makes it economically unviable for electricity, as well as extremely dangerous.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-07-09 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. The demise of the pebble bed modular reactor
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. If the government told a big fat lie like that, I would absolutely oppose them.
There is no serious analysis which says the solution is to start building lots of nuclear power plants.

From the pdf in the OP:
"The studies cited here contain a wealth of detail on projections of future technologies; it is interesting to note, for example, that none of the studies relies much on expansion of nuclear power, but none of them except Greenpeace proposes phasing out the existing uses of nuclear power, either."

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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-06-09 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. When you use the term "serious analysis"...
...is that an opinion, or a provable, demonstrable fact?
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-07-09 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. For example
From the pdf in the OP:
"The studies cited here contain a wealth of detail on projections of future technologies; it is interesting to note, for example, that none of the studies relies much on expansion of nuclear power, but none of them except Greenpeace proposes phasing out the existing uses of nuclear power, either."

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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-07-09 04:24 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Oh dear ... it's catching ...
Stuck for an answer to a question?
Simply repeat the same thing that you said last time!

I've got used to two people doing this round here but now it looks
like someone else has been infected ...
:crazy:
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-07-09 04:38 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Ok, I gave an alternate reply in post #16.
HTH!
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-07-09 05:59 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Ta!
:hi:
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-07-09 04:35 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. You really don't know what "serious" means?
:rofl:
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-07-09 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. I do
I'm pretty sure in this case serious means "anything I agree with".
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kristopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-07-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. I think I'd characterize ...
the class of studies as 'objective'. Studies produced by people that don't have a horse in the race who look at the totality of the evidence in order to arrive at a conclusion that takes into account as many of the positives and negatives as possible.

I think "serious" is a good word for such work but I'd have to admit that those producing studies finding the object of their life's work to be the best option, or studies by economically motivated actors are also "serious" about having their preformed, distorted, cherry picked conclusions accepted.

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