Wildfire Costs and Impacts

[Fotoware58]

http://www.wildfire-economics.org/

U.S. Wildfire Cost-Plus-Loss Economics Project

This page lists most of the wildfire impacts. Some of these impacts are dismissed or ignored while fires are allowed to roam far and wide. If fires are so beneficial, then why don't people want them near their homes? Hell, why not torch all forests and see even more "benefits" to catastrophic wildfires? I still have yet to see anyone offer up any benefits to forests from "free range fire" but, the government is continuing to spend money they don't have on watching forests burn, instead of putting them out. AND they do this with no required NEPA analysis or public input.

[rd_kent]

1. Nice inflammatory comments.

"Hell, why not torch all forests and see even more "benefits" to catastrophic wildfires? I still have yet to see anyone offer up any benefits to forests from "free range fire" but, the government is continuing to spend money they don't have on watching forests burn, instead of putting them out."

Uh, its a fact that fires are an intregal part of the forest ecosystem. We put them out when they are near home because....wait for it...they are near homes.

And you link you provided goes to an organization that has nothing printed under the title "Who we are. Our mission. Briefly."

[Fotoware58]

5. Obviously...

the site is under construction. To cover ALL the impacts of wildfires requires a lot of scientific thought and analysis. Today's catastrophic wildfires aren't "natural", as fuels buildups are unnaturally high. They are NOT "an integral part" of our forests. Otherwise, how does a ponderosa pine tree get to be 400 years old?!? Restoration is the key but, it just isn't politically palatable to the rotting planks of America's eco-agenda.

Even now, some National Forests seem to be abandoning their Let-Burn programs, fearing a wave of public lawsuits and outrageous costs of putting out a 200,000 acre fire. Alas, other Forests still are embracing disasterous wildfires. Until the public decides they are tired of smoke, evacuations and dead forests, we must endure massive GHG production that outpaces all man-made sources. Increased flooding, loss of endangered species habitat, unhealthful air and property losses will be the norm.

Yes, prescribed fires will be essential to forest restoration but, you cannot expect wildfires to do any good. Welcome to the new millennium, where forests are expendable and people who live in the woods suffer.

[mike_c]

2. if you've yet to see any benefits of fire...

...then you're either woefully uninformed or willfully ignorant. I'm not going to provide you with a lit review, so feel free to claim that I can't-- but I think you probably know better. There is a LOT of evidence suggesting that fire suppression has had dramatic negative impacts on forest ecology, especially in western North American forests.

On edit-- Oh, it's WISE again, hiding behind a new facade. We've had this discussion before. WISE is an anti-environment RW front group. I really wish you'd stop posting their crap here.

[Fotoware58]

3. Killing the messenger, AGAIN!?!

Try responding to the message instead of namecalling, bud! How are they "an anti-environment group", when they want to restore forests instead of burning them to a crisp? I am certainly NOT a rightwinger. Again, I'm not seeing you produce any evidence that proves Let-Burn wildfires are "beneficial", even though the government widely "advertises" them to the public. There ARE other choices to "save our forests", dude! Once we have restored our forests back to a more "natural state", only then can we let fires burn, with the promised "benefits". Today's wildfires don't decrease fuels loading. They radically INCREASE the amount of dead and dying forests. Try responding to THOSE facts, bud! Wildfires DESTROY natural features we humans like, and even NEED. For example, who will take the blame when an entire grove of precious Giant Sequoias trees are allowed to be burned into oblivion, despite their fire adaptations? (Of course, "global warming" will be blamed for the Let-Burn fires that escape.)

Someday, people will wake up and wonder why we allowed our old growth to burn to the ground. Until then, the scientific "crap" I post will continue to befuddle those who rely on ascientific rhetoric and blather, while forests disappear. Others just don't want to talk about dying forests because they cannot support their wishes with solid, sound science.

And Mike, you surely do NOT have to read whatever I post. It is one's right to remain ignorant and to not trust science while embracing disaster.

[mike_c]

4. I'm not going to waste time arguing with you again....

Instead, I'll urge readers in this thread to follow the links to WISE, find the names of their exec director and board members-- they're on the WISE site-- then Google those folks. No one need do anything more to discover what WISE is really up to.

[Fotoware58]

6. Try Googling...

scientists like Dr. Stephen Pyne, Dr. Jerry Franklin and Dr. Thomas Bonnicksen, who all say we need to manage our forests back to health instead of doing nothing and hoping the climate will magically change overnight. They all say that fires are the biggest threat to old growth forests, as well as other types of stands. Today's fires burn at such high unnatural intensities that kill everything in its path. You can choose to embrace these catastrophic fires or you can decide to "rebuild" our forests back into a balanced ecosystem that supports all the good stuff we like from forests, including recreational opportunities and enhanced endangered species habitat, amongst other benefits to active scientific management.

[Fotoware58]

7. Burning money!

Here's a few examples of how wildfires are extremely expensive. Not only are they very damaging to our environment, they are also VERY damaging to our economy, and especially local rural economies. This carnage just isn't "sustainable" and it is sad that these costs have to be endured because of political rhetoric. I'm sure we'll see yet another year where wildfire costs will hijack the budget of the Forest Service resulting in closed campgrounds, reduced scientific studies, abandoned fuels reduction projects and lost jobs.

However, firefighters will continue to make tons of money at the expense of our environment. We haven't really entered the peak of fire season yet, either. The magic 10 million acre mark is still within reach, especially if National Forests in Idaho and Montana get some big Let-Burn fires going. Both states have 4 million acres each that the Forest Service would like to see burned.

Notice that all of these fires are relatively small with HUGE dollar amounts. I didn't include any very costly Alaska fires, either!

145 ACRES $1,400,000
60 ACRES $1,630,000
6,583 ACRES $7,537,750
70 ACRES $1,500,000
3,664 ACRES $3,200,000
955 ACRES $1,900,000
170 ACRES $1,500,000
130 ACRES $1,000,000
6,324 ACRES $16,967,631
3,225 ACRES $3,950,000
643 ACRES $1,071,421
129 ACRES $1,000,000
14,454 ACRES $6,402,568
10,125 ACRES $4,400,000
1,661 ACRES $880,000
3,047 ACRES $2,968,000
3,268 ACRES $3,173,090
458 ACRES $2,900,000
6,130 ACRES $11,100,000
3,766 ACRES $1,630,000
10,549 ACRES $2,447,406
146 ACRES $1,475,000
4,025 ACRES $1,730,976
1,400 ACRES $2,600,000
23,440 ACRES $1,070,000
7,718 ACRES $1,200,000
19,400 ACRES $1,400,000
8,750 ACRES $1,109,898
801 ACRES $1,000,000
10,022 ACRES $1,404,000
9,543 ACRES $1,450,000
30,005 ACRES $2,300,000
7,794 ACRES $6,198,851

[Fotoware58]

8. Cost plus loss plus mitigation

A recent study has shown that suppression costs are but a small fraction of the monetary costs of catastrophic wildfire. The Cedar Fire near San Diego burned vast amounts of land, as well as impacting humans in a very bad way. In fact, the thick smoke killed my Uncle, even though he lived in a suburb of San Diego. Who's family member will be next to die?

Back to the study, though. The impacts of the Cedar Fire have resulted in FIFTY times the suppression costs. Last year in California alone, suppression costs totalled one BILLION dollars. If you apply a mere 10X multiplyer then you have 10 BILLION dollar losses to our economy, just in California last year. How many social programs did the Governator cut in his California budget to cover those costs? How many hundreds of millions of GHG's spewed into our atmosphere from these fires? The fires in Trinity County alone resulted in the equivalent pollution of 2 MILLION cars running all year long. How many acres of endangered species habitat went up in smoke?? How much silt clogged our streams from the wildfires?? Many impacts can't be itemized with dollar figures.

Only good stewardship of our public lands can save our forests and reduce our mitigation costs, with the side benefits of healthy, resilient and drought resistent forests. When will we start thinking globally and acting locally?? Are you a part of the problem or a part of the solution??

Why is it OK to let millions of old growth trees die in Let-Burn fires??