The South Will Rise Again - By Another 2.5 Degrees With Action - Up To 9F Under BAU Scenario

[hatrack]

Even with dramatic cuts in greenhouse gas emissions, the average temperature of the Southeast will increase by another 2.5 degrees by the 2080s, a federal study concludes. Do nothing, and children born today could expect the mercury to rise by an average of 9 degrees by the time they are in their 70s, on top of the 2 degrees it has increased since the 1970s.

The warmer world will mean the Southeast will experience increased illness and death from summer heat, a decline in forest growth, increased buckling of pavement and railways, less oxygen in streams for aquatic life, and a decline in cattle and other rangeland production.

"These are facts to be dealt with," Jerry Melillo, senior scientist and former co-director of the Marine Biological Laboratory in Woods Hole, Mass., and co-editor of the report, said at a Washington, D.C., news conference on Tuesday, June 16. "Climate change is not just an environmental issue. It's about people. It's about us."

Titled "Global Climate Change Impacts in the United States," it is the federal government's first region-by-region assessment of climate change since 2000, and it finds that warming is already affecting water, energy, transportation, agriculture, ecological systems and human health across the nation, including the Southeast and Midwest.

EDIT

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20090616/GREEN/906160364/S%20tudy%20says%20S%20outh%20will%20rise%20again%20%E2%80%94%20by%202.5%20degrees

[phantom power]

1. 9 degrees in 70 years.

Brown trousers time.

[The Croquist]

3. Wow isn't it amazing that places that are hot will get hotter

Places that are cool (Western Europe) will get colder.
Places that are dry (Southwest US) will get dryer.
Places that are wet will get wetter.

Places will be flooding and in the midst of drought at the same time!!!!

We must stop it.

About 9 days ago we got another panic report on the Maldives. Several people agreed that stories like this made the case for man-made global warming less believable.

1,200-Foot 160 Foot Deep Stretch Of Maldive Beach Gone In Past 2 Weeks - 2 Islands Evacuated
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=115x198206

[RaleighNCDUer]

4. It's not global warming - it's climate change, and it IS happening.

Deny it all you want - reality has a way of dealing with those who deny reality.

[The Croquist]

5. The climate is ALWAYS changing.

I live in the Southeast and I'll take my chances.

[kestrel91316]

6. So, do you deny that there is such a thing as the Greenhouse Effect?

Or do you deny that CO2 is a greenhouse gas? Or perhaps you deny that man has generated enough CO2 to make any difference in the atmosphere's CO2 content?

Or maybe you deny that we have generated as much CO2 as atmospheric scientists claim we have?

If you make any such claims, YOU are the one with the obligation to back up said claims with actual scientific facts. I'll be waiting for you to do so.

<crickets chirping>

I really think you would be happier at some site that opposes the concept of anthropogenic global warming and climate change.

[The Croquist]

8. I do not deny that there is such a thing as the greenhouse effect.

I do not deny that CO2 is a greenhouse gas.
I'm not sure we've generated as much CO2 as atmospheric scientists claim we have. I know we've generated a boatload.

CO2 is certainly a greenhouse gas. To deny it is to deny reality. Burning fossil fuels creates CO2. That is a fact. Another fact is that CO2 levels has been increasing steadily since accurate global records began (I think) in the 1950s. If you want I can look it up.

There are other facts as well:

Arctic sea ice has shrunk over the last 30 years but Antarctic sea ice has grown. If you give me an e-mail address I'll provide you with the data from NSIDC.
The long term temperature record (over 30 years) is crap. If you give me an e-mail address I'll provide you with the data from GISS.
The quality of US surface station data is worse then crap. It may qualify as criminal negligence and the so called "Climatologists" don't care, If you give me an e-mail address I'll provide you with the data from http://www.surfacestations.org/ (Denier site). You can tell it's a denier site since they actually provide documentation and get no funding from either the federal government or "Big Oil".
The earth has warmed and cooled in the past without man's help.
Sea level has risen an average of twice as fast as it currently is for the last 18,000 - 20,000 years. Just google Ice age and sea level, do the math and you can confirm it yourself.
Then there is the fact that the earth has cooled over the last 10 years. Since we only have 30 years of accurate history I consider that significant. If you give me an e-mail address I'll provide you with the data from NSSTC.

Opinion: Just because I disagree with you regarding "Global Warming" shouldn't make me your enemy. I am not anti-science but I am open to questioning it. Frankly I think that "Global Warming" is a bigger scam then Piltdown Man ever was and this one risks killing tens or hundreds of millions of people if we "err on the side of safety". Poverty is the biggest cause of death on the planet and to think that hurting the economies of the western world won't increase poverty is just wishful thinking.

Prediction:
You won't be bothered to look at the actual data. You really should. It might open your eyes on which side are really the deniers.

[kestrel91316]

9. I am a mere veterinarian. I would NEVER presume to know more about

interpretation of factual climate data than the real experts: the world's leading climatologists.

Tell me again where YOU got your PhD in climatology and what university faculty you are now on? Also, links to your published climatology research papers would be appreciated.

BTW: There isn't going to BE any economy for the RW to fret about if the planet keeps heating up.

[phantom power]

10. There will be a vibrant jellyfish economy!

:woohoo:

[The Croquist]

11. None. I am a retired banker

You asked for facts and I presented you with facts.

"If you make any such claims, YOU are the one with the obligation to back up said claims with actual scientific facts. I'll be waiting for you to do so." It took me 51 minutes to reply. I hope that wasn't too long.

Feel free to dispute my facts?

Would you like to see the data?

Ice data here: http://nsidc.org/cgi-bin/bist/bist.pl?annot=1&legend=1&scale=100&tab_cols=1&tab_rows=3&config=seaice_index&submit=Refresh&mo0=04&hemis0=N&img0=extn&year0=2009&year1=2008&.cgifields=no_panel
Compiled raw or processed data available upon request.

GISS data available here:
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/station_data/
Compiled raw or processed data available upon request.

I've already provided you with the "denier" site for the quality of US surface station data. Here it is again http://www.surfacestations.org
Here are some results:

9% of USHCN stations are within 1 degree of accuracy.
20% of USHCN stations are between 1 and 2 degrees of accuracy.
58% of USHCN stations are between 2 and 5 degrees of accuracy.
11% of USHCN stations are 5 degrees or more out of accuracy.

Compiled raw or processed data available upon request.

Did you google sea level as I suggested? It won't take long to either refute or confirm my claim.
Here is a GISS site:
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/gornitz_09/

Satellite temperature data can be found here:
http://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/public/msu/t2lt/tltglhmam_5.2
Compiled raw or processed data available upon request.

As I said, just because I disagree with you regarding "Global Warming" shouldn't make me your enemy and please don't call me a right winger. There are plenty of Democrats who believe in the right to bear arms and in God. I believe in the former but not the latter. Some of us even question "Man Made Global Warming"

[Javaman]

13. LOL keep digging have fun mr. banker non scientist! LOL

"I'm not a climatologist, but I like to play one on the internets!"

LOL

[Javaman]

12. It's always so funny when you ask them their background.

they get very quiet.

"I don't claim to be a climatologist, I just play one on the internets!"

Personally, I rather take the advice of 30,000 scientists than some fool that listens to 1 or two idiots funded by the oil and coal companies to parrot their talking points, but hey that's me.

Cheers!

[The Croquist]

14. Call me by my first name, "Retired".

The reason I've been quiet is that I've been waiting a day and a half for kestrel91316 to look at the facts and data that I supplied, at his request, and reply. If anyone has been quiet it's him not me. See his post 6 and my posts 8 & 11. I provided facts and links.

Maybe you would like to look at the data instead of just dismissing me as a fool. Of the 5 links I provided, three are US government sites, one is working for the US government and one is a site run by a "denier". All provide data not opinion. Data counts more then all the insults in the world.
The "denier" ran an audit of the USHCN sites that showed that the network is fatally flawed. It was dismissed as propaganda on Climate Progress. They didn't attack his results (they can't), they attacked him personally and ignored his results. The best I can tell Real Climate totally ignored his results but insult him regularly. I understand that typing an insult is easier then looking at data but the argument should be about facts and data rather then talking points.

Dismissing any questioning of science is by definition anti-science.

[Javaman]

15. LOL I stand by what I stated, I think I will believe a climatologist first...

before I take the word of some "retired" guy on the internet with no background other than banking as a source of information in the area of climate studies and gives dubious links to pseudo-science.

I bet you stay up nights searching for this stuff, huh? LOL everyone one needs a hobby! LOL

Your grandchildren will thank you for your diligent work in the highly acclaimed field of denial.

I can refute all your stupid questionable links, as I have done with other fools in the past, but given the fact that BS has already been proven to be grossly false from many many public and scientific sources and are backed by reams and reams of data, I'm instead, because your ignorance exhausts me, just going to block you. It's just easier for the both of us, don't you agree?

And why am I blocking you? I think it's obvious: blatant and willful ignorance to the world around you, closing your eyes the immediate area around you and the little cocoon of oil backed pseudo-science info that you have surrounded yourself in. I mean really now, it's very ugly.

However, I do congratulate you at the way you enjoy pushing the ball of stupid down the field. I think Sisyphus comes to mind.

Ta!

[The Croquist]

16. Just hold your hands to your ears and shout "I can't hear you!"

I can refute all your stupid questionable links

Did you even bother to look at my links?
You call The National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) a stupid link? They get their funding from the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), the National Science Foundation (NSF)and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). All are part of the federal government.

You call the Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) a stupid link? GISS is a division of NASA which means they are part of the federal government. James Hansen runs the place! Is he a hack of big oil?

Both RSS and UAH get their funding and data from the federal government.

Are NSICD and GISS controlled by big oil? If so why do they both believe in man-made global warming?
Are RSS and UAH controlled by big oil?

Feel free to trash the one "denier" site that I supplied. What ever you do, don't consider for a moment to try and think for yourself. That might prove inconvenient.

Actually I do stay up late and read about it and what's worse I don't see anything wrong with that. I read both sides of the argument and I consider myself quite well informed. I don't hold my hands over my ears and shout "I can't hear you!".

And why am I blocking you? I think it's obvious: blatant and willful ignorance to the world around you, closing your eyes the immediate area around you and the little cocoon of oil backed pseudo-science info that you have surrounded yourself in. I mean really now, it's very ugly.

You haven't disputed a single one of my facts but you have repeatedly attacked me personally and the links I provided without even knowing what they were. Maybe you should consider who is being ignorant.

[XemaSab]

7. As a complete aside, I love that phrase...

I used it the other day to describe a road I went down... the road was about 4 feet wide and steep and bumpy as all get out with loose gravel covering the road surface and a brazillion foot drop-off. Yes, some routes are blue star routes, some routes are black diamond routes... this route was a brown trouser route. :D

[dixiegrrrrl]

2. Heat index today= 105. Yesterday = 103.

Halfway thru June, the hot weather season has not even arrived.
But the Gulf is hot now.
So add more hurricanes to that list of consequences.