Australians buying more bikes than cars

[OKIsItJustMe]

http://news.smh.com.au/national/australians-buying-more-bikes-than-cars-20090107-7bal.html

Australians buying more bikes than cars

January 7, 2009 - 12:02AM

Australians continue to buy more bicycles than cars with the economic downturn, health issues and climate change driving sales, the Cycling Promotion Fund (CPF) says.

Figures released on Tuesday put total vehicle sales for 2008 at 1,012,64 while bike sales were 38 per cent higher at 1,401,675.

The CPF said it was the ninth consecutive year demand for bikes had outstripped vehicles.

"The economic downturn and the affordability of cycling is one of the key reasons for the continued surge in bicycle sales," CPF policy adviser Elliot Fishman said.

…

[bdamomma]

1. conserving and staying healthy at the same time.

[The2ndWheel]

2. I don't know if it's conserving if the main reason for it

is that you can't economically afford to do it. If economic times were great, and we were continuing to privatize the energy profits toward human civilization, and were continuing to socialize the energy costs to the rest of the planet, and people were still buying bikes instead of cars, to me, that would be conservation.

[OKIsItJustMe]

4. Does it have to be either/or

Does conservation have to be the "main reason" for it to be "conservation?"

I know people who have always meant to do (something), but the economy finally spurs them to do it. For a simple example, an outdoorsy, conservationist coworker came to me last evening for advice on programmable thermostats. (He's meant to install one for years, but…)

[The2ndWheel]

6. At this point, probably

If less energy is being consumed because the energy is more expensive, that's adaptation more than conservation. In my mind, conservation is having access to the energy, the ability to pay for the energy, and the ability to use the energy, but not accessing, paying for, or using the energy that you could access, pay for, and use.

That's why I just don't see conservation as part of any plan. I see changing energy sources. I see efficiency. We don't want solar or wind power so that we can use less energy. We want solar and wind power because we want to use more energy. We wanted to use oil and coal because it ended overt Western slavery. We no longer wanted, and had the ability to no longer need, for slaves to be slaves. We want solar and wind so that we no longer need to pollute the environment. As long as we exist in physical reality, we will impact the environment, especially as we increase the scale of our activity. What will the downside to solar and wind power be? I don't know, but we won't conserve it. We will give ourselves the ability to access more of it(sure, a small % of the energy could serve our current needs just fine, but why, when we never have before, would we stop at current needs?), give ourselves the ability to pay for it, and find as many ways as possible, and then dream up at least one additional way, to use it(no matter how small or wasteful that way might be).

[OKIsItJustMe]

7. You're looking for virtue. I'm looking for results

I would always prefer to have people do the right thing, for the right reasons.

On the other hand, I've grown more accepting of them doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, and even of them doing the wrong thing for the right reasons.

[The2ndWheel]

8. I wouldn't say I was looking for anything

I'm looking at our situation. Whatever is going to happen is going to happen. People are going to do what people are going to do. I'm just debating the word conservation, and how it relates to how we do things.

[OKIsItJustMe]

9. There are those of us who wish to conserve

Just look at the people who invested in solar panels and wind turbines for their homes, even though it was more expensive to do so. Look at the people who bought Priuses, knowing that they wouldn't save enough gas to pay for the extra cost. Look at the people who installed CFL's, even though they knew they wouldn't save enough electricity to cover their cost. Conservation, for the sake of conservation is "virtuous."

So, today, you can (for example) save money with CFL's, and people are doing it. It's conservation for the sake of economy. Does that make it a bad thing?

Solar power is becoming cheap enough that people who really wanted to use it before, but felt they could not afford to, now feel they can afford to. Conservation permitted by economy. (Does that make it a bad thing?)


http://www.ny.gov/governor/press/factsheet_0107092.html

MAKING NEW YORK MORE ENERGY INDEPENDENT AND ENERGY EFFICIENT

• Governor Paterson proposes one of the most aggressive clean energy goals in the country.

• By 2015, New York will meet 45 percent of its electricity needs through improved energy efficiency and clean renewable energy.

• Governor Paterson has proposed increasing the Renewable Portfolio Standard to 30 percent.
• He has set a goal of decreasing electricity usage by 15 percent.
• This effort will help rebuild our economy, create jobs, meet our energy needs, fight global warming, and protect our environment.

• The “45 by 15” goal will require a clean energy economy.

• Governor Paterson has proposed innovative financing mechanisms, such as “on-bill financing” now being discussed in a proceeding before the State Public Service Commission to help New Yorkers retrofit their homes and businesses and invest in energy efficiency and renewable energy.
• Realizing the “45 by 15” goal will create an estimated 50,000 new jobs. New York already has one of the nation’s most ambitious clean-energy workforce training programs, and Governor Paterson is committed to expanding it.

…

[The2ndWheel]

11. I still just don't see it

That we see the world a little differently is a good thing though. It's diversity.

"Just look at the people who invested"

If you invest in something, I think a return on your investment is expected. If you're just investing in something and expecting to lose money on it over the long term, that's wasteful, which isn't conservation. And if the return on your investment is substantial enough, you'll want to invest again and again, increasing your return each time, none of which is conservation.

"Solar power is becoming cheap enough that people who really wanted to use it before, but felt they could not afford to, now feel they can afford to. Conservation permitted by economy."

How is using a resource because it's now cheap enough to do so conservation?

Oil is becoming cheap enough that people who really wanted to use it before, but felt they could not afford to, now feel they can afford to. Conservation permitted by economy.

Coal is becoming cheap enough that people who really wanted to use it before, but felt they could not afford to, now feel they can afford to. Conservation permitted by economy.

Timber is becoming cheap enough that people who really wanted to use it before, but felt they could not afford to, now feel they can afford to. Conservation permitted by economy.

When I get to the bottom line in my own thoughts, I'm just not sure if conservation of energy is possible, except on the smallest of individual scales, which then only makes that resource cheaper for anyone else who wishes to use it. Big picture, grand scheme of things, global scale, I'm just not seeing it.

If we find a way to use a source of energy, we will. If we can't find a way to use a source of energy, we won't, but not because we're conserving it, but because, for whatever reason, we're not able to use it.

[Mika]

3. Will they be considered terrorists by the US Fatherland Über Alis?

More Groups Than Thought Monitored in Police Spying
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/03/AR2009010301993_pf.html

New Documents Reveal Md. Program's Reach

By Lisa Rein and Josh White
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, January 4, 2009; A01

The Maryland State Police surveillance of advocacy groups was far more extensive
than previously acknowledged, with records showing that
troopers monitored -- and labeled as terrorists -- activists devoted to such
wide-ranging causes as promoting human rights and establishing
bike lanes.

[phantom power]

5. Interesting. For the 9th consecutive year.

[XemaSab]

10. Bikes are a lot cheaper

A family can buy a kid 5 bikes while they're growing up, but only have one car during that time period.