Solution !

[.... callchet ....]

Replace capitalism with personalism and all the problems are solved.

[Orrex]

1. or replace capitalism with lower-casism; i predict that the usa will recover quickly!

[.... callchet ....]

2. Sorry

Did not get it, elaborate please

[Nihil]

8. *Chuckle*

I think that a few people will hear a strange wizzing noise
as that flies over their heads ...

:toast:

[Orrex]

10. LOL!

:hi:

[.... callchet ....]

15. How do you do the smiling icon ?

Did you really think that subtle and sophisticated.

[Orrex]

19. Subtle? Sophisticated? I take offense at those accusations!

When you're posting a message, right above your subject line is a hyperlink for Smilies lookup table. Click on it, and you'll get a listing of the wide range of smilies supported by DU's messaging system.

[.... callchet ....]

21. I still

think the Brazilian is going to be hard to top. I saw the movie W, he must think he lives in a bee hive.

[Laelth]

3. And how, precisely, do you propose to do that?

What kind of totalitarian nightmare of a government would be required to make it happen?

Or am I merely too literal? Should I have inferred the sarcasm tag? :shrug:

Wind Power BLOWS.

See the following:
http://www.keepersoftheblueridge.com/faqs.html
http://www.nortexwind.org/index.htm
http://www.stopillwind.org/index.php
http://windconcernsontario.wordpress.com/
http://www.savewesternny.org/
http://www.epaw.org/

Or just watch this series of videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNxvkrgoPLo&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_utFV2ukOtU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOd5tSZF3A4&feature=related

There's more, but you get the idea. :)

The United States is a LIBERAL Country.

:dem:

-Laelth

[.... callchet ....]

4. People First

Push an agenda that requires food, shelter, clothing, healthcare, childcare and jobs for every USA citizen. If elected officials don't subscribe to

the program " People First " vote them out. We created a group of godzillionares, we could surly create a group of citizens that have a secure

future guaranteed to them. There already exists a potential surplus of housing and food. Coupled with universal health care and child care we would

have a work force that could compete with the cheapest third world countries.

[Citizen Number 9]

5. Can we require that they work for

the food, shelter, clothing, healthcare, childcare and jobs?

[.... callchet ....]

7. Sure

but so far that has only caused the biggest decline of a nation in the history of the world. Instead of the present system that causes people to beg

to live, I would present them with the basics of life and ask them to work. Drop the assumption that they are non motivated lazy good for nothings

and see how it works. If it doesn't work we would still be in the same place we are now except for a healthier happier nation. As a union safety

committee man, I wrote an absentee policy for a coal mine that rewarded people for coming to work instead of punishing them for missing work. It

worked to the betterment of everyone. The same amount of money was spent on the safety program at the mine except that the money was used to provide

rewards that were obtained by accumulating points by not missing work. It enlightened management to the idea that it was okay to treat people other

than your own family with dignity. Paradoxically I was eventually required by our district leaders to file a grievance against my on program because

it was an absentee policy not in the union contract.

[Citizen Number 9]

11. Chet. Getting a paycheck is a reward for coming to work.

No amount of policy writing is going to change that.

[.... callchet ....]

14. Absolutely

But just like an executive compensation committee, lets see how much we can give them in that paycheck. At least the fundamentals of life. I realize

that it takes a very small percentage of money to give a few a lot and that it might deplete our resources to give a lot very little. So the concept

of helping a lot of people can't stand the test of reason.

[Citizen Number 9]

17. I do that every day

I'd like to pay employees more in order to attract better workers, but there are limitations.

As it is, aren't Americans some of the highest compensated workers in the world and isn't this one of the reasons that cause business to look offshore for a more cost-effective solution?

[.... callchet ....]

18. Right

You are right . The logical conclusion and probably inevitable conclusion is to let the process run out. That would reduce the standard of living in

the USA to third world standards. The USA would be comprised mostly of below poverty wage earners. Our products would be cheaper and competitive on

the world market. Reduced health care would mean shorter convalescing periods and earlier deaths. That would reduce the burden on Social Security and

retirement programs. Workers would not be able to afford transportation, so they would camp out around industries. Gasoline consumption would drop

severely and pollution would start to recede. That is also the most likely scenario to take place. It appears inevitable and that is why I dropped

out of labor activism over 30 years ago. Back then everybody became rich and there were no battles to fight. There was no stomach for humanity then

and it looks like that is the case now also. But I am not going to quit again.

[.... callchet ....]

20. The biggest cost

factor in producing cars is not the UAW but the EPA.

[.... callchet ....]

16. These aren't

extreme measures I am talking about. As I have said before, I have been writing about the declining economic situation for years. The status quo position is that nothing that bad is happening that won't correct itself. But daily the facts and new developments keep emerging that support a total economic collapse. I am just forwarding ideas to prevent rioting and civil disruption.

[.... callchet ....]

12. Wrong response

Clicked the wrong post

[tinrobot]

6. Replace 6 billion persons with 1 billion persons.

That'll solve your problem!

[Howzit]

23. You mean, subtract 5 Billion people!

[tinrobot]

24. Yeah, that, too...

How we do it is going to be the problem of the century.

[Howzit]

25. What makes you think "we" are going to be the ones doing it, rather than the ones it is done to?

[stuntcat]

26. whoever!

However it's done and whoever's 'eliminated' it will be great for the rest of the animals :D

[Howzit]

28. People like you can volunteer not to have any kids, but

what about those who choose to breed?

I am pushing 50 and don't care to have any.

Any suggestion of actively reducing the population is likely to cause backlash, with stong motivation to "reduce" those pushing such a scheme.

I'm polite; so you go first.

[stuntcat]

32. I would go first

I have to be here 40 more years and I dread the horrible things I'll see. If it wasn't for my best friend and my husband I'd be happy to delete myself right now. It would break their hearts, especially my best friend.. so I have to remind myself to laugh at the biggest disasters.
I pity the children being made, especially the very young ones.. what if that baby laughing at the grocery store grows up to love animals and the Earth? By the time he's my age it'll so much worse than the news I'm getting every day. But serious nature lovers aren't reproducing as much, maybe the new generations will have that emotion bred out of them. I'm already seeing young people saying every day on the internet how it doesn't matter if the animals survive, our species is here to use the planet however we want.. those kid's kids won't miss the old forests!

[tinrobot]

30. Sooner or later, it will get done.

We can do it or we can have it done to us. Our choice.

It will be very difficult for humans to undo the few billion years of genetic programming that compels us to reproduce. But if any species can consciously choose to slow/stop reproduction, it is us. I don't have much faith that we will make that conscious decision, though....

[Howzit]

31. Does that mean we should stand by and allow genocide

as in Rwanda, Darfur, the Congo and potentially former USSR states?

[tinrobot]

33. No, it doesn't.

Instead of killing people, we should concentrate on creating fewer new people.

[Howzit]

34. OK, but "Replacing 6 Billion with 1 Billion people"

gives the impression of a shorter time constant.

[stuntcat]

27. I like it

:thumbsup:

[GliderGuider]

9. The possibility of a solution implies that what we are experiencing is a problem

But what if this is not a problem, but rather a predicament?

What if human activity for the last 10,000 years has been an entropic function?
How do we "solve" entropy?

We can respond to it, of course. Solve it? Maybe not...

[.... callchet ....]

13. I wrote all that and then put it in the wrong place. LOL

callchet (186 posts) Wed Jan-07-09 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Recorded history of any type
The possibility of a solution implies that what we are experiencing is a problem
But what if this is not a problem, but rather a predicament?

What if human activity for the last 10,000 years has been an entropic function?
How do we "solve" entropy?

We can respond to it, of course. Solve it? Maybe not...


Recorded history of any type indicates a pattern in human activity. A leader emerges and promotes a course of action that is self interested. The

masses are led by the leader sometimes further past the benefit of the masses than logic understands. But under scrutiny I think that mass reaction

is not a reaction but tolerance. I think that in general the action of the masses appears to co-operation when in fact it is just existence in

their own sphere. The overall appearance is masses led by a leader when in fact it is opportunist availing of a position. For example the generally

perceived English adoration for the Royals is much like the a parent that is proud of, adoring and wishing the best for an offspring. Suffering

both returned adoration and desirableness from the child. Suffering to incomprehensible extremes. Until sometimes a new influence is introduced to

change the pattern. Diverging, but supporting I call attention to the popularity of " Life Styles of The Rich and Famous " and " My Super Sweet

Sixteen" in the USA. So I would agree that there is no problem because that is just how things happen. But I would suggest that there is not disorder

but in fact well defined order and patterns that are taken advantage of by a few deviants. And that another few deviants want to redirect. And that

another few want to redirect again. It in finality calls attention to the fact that it cannot be accepted that there is no solution but constant

changes. The dilemma is in setting boundaries and then trying to work within those boundaries. Nothing is linear. Much the same way that we deny that

the benefits of the clean air movement have caused death, misery and pollution. Much the same way we are willing to sacrifice the few for the many.

So we are looking for temporary relief. So check this out. When Oprah gains weight do we realize that it is not the function of another helping of

Mac and Cheese. Can you imagine the delectable treats that she has to turn down on a daily basis presented to her by a Chef that is ever working to

preserve and justify his job. It is all in what perspective you chose to encompass.

" People First "

[Dogmudgeon]

22. Like Ilya Prigogine's dissipative structures?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissipative_system">Dissipative Structures or Systems -- almost as good as paradigms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Prigogine">Ilya Prigogine -- one seriously cool dude.

As an explanation for human excess wreaking planetary destruction, though, it isn't a problem so much as a solution to "What To Do With All That Heat".

--p!

[GliderGuider]

29. Humanity as an autopoietic machine?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopoiesis

Frijtof Capra is also a seriously cool dude.

I love this sort of metaphysics.