Pumped-Storage and Wind: an Ideal Solution

[Fledermaus]

Pumped storage units cost less to build and less to run than other dispatchable alternatives. Pumped storage can be used to firm wind units during the peak hours. Since pumped storage units are recharged at night, off-peak wind generated electricity can be used to run the pumps at night. This means that pumped storage combined with wind is a pure renewable solution.

Pumped storage units create no CO2, are very inexpensive, are environmentally responsible and can be constructed in many areas of Utah. Pumped storage and wind do not compete but are synergistic, and the combination means more clean, cheap electricity for Utah.

Building pumped storage and wind together means lower generation costs, lower transmission costs, less pollution and a plentiful, secure energy future for Utah. Clean, cheap and plentiful pumped storage combined with wind is a winner for Utah.

In the quest to locate alternative, non-fossil fuel energy resources for the United States, Symbiotics Energy is leading the way by developing pumped-storage facilities with limited aquatic resource impact (Closed Cycle, Limited Aquatic Resource Impact Pumped-Storage Facilities).

Symbiotics searches the United States topography for suitable sites with sufficient relief (height differential between the lower and upper reservoirs) as well as transmission Grid access to allow pumped-storage technology to work. Then, ground water is recycled in a Closed Loop for both the initial lower reservoir fill and also for evaporation make up.

Symbiotics has recently applied for Federal (FERC) permits to build and operate two such facilities in northern Utah totaling approximately 1,800 MW of needed peaking electricity capacity. 1,800 MW is equivalent to two new natural-gas-fired or coal-fired electricity-generating plants or two new wind farms. Solar facilities are usually smaller than 100 MW.

http://www.symbioticsenergy.com/index.html

[Enthusiast]

1. I love this concept!

This has real potential.

[kristopher]

2. It is extremely limited in relation to needs

Where it can be developed it is a great storage solution. Unfortunately, the "exploitable resource size" (that's the amount that can be developed with economic, environmental and political constraints considered) is only a small fraction of the amount of storage needed for a renewable grid.

On the positive side, much of the pumped hydro exploitable resource has yet to be developed. So, if you are looking for a good way to make money keep your eyes out for a good spot. You need lots of drop, easy access to the grid and large quantities of water, and storage for the water at least at the higher elevation.

[dbackjon]

3. So damning mountain valleys?

[Dead_Parrot]

4. Better than damning the whole planet... nt

[dbackjon]

5. So we sacrifice instead of preservation.

Unacceptable trade off.

might as well drill baby drill

[Dead_Parrot]

6. Really?

You'd rather see hundreds of thousands of acres of forest wiped out?

Nice.

[Enthusiast]

7. Since I am a fisherman...........

I love lakes. :loveya:

Actually I have a difficult time fishing due to physical problems. I just need a plate of fried catfish to get my fix. Bluegills, crappies or Saugeye(Walleye)will do fine.

[Dead_Parrot]

8. To be fair...

...a reservoir created just for pumped storage may not make a good fishing ground - if the variation in levels is too high (Such as at Dinorwig) the wildlife will have a hard time with it. On the other hand, schemes using existing lakes (and the Loch Ness/Loch Mhor scheme at Foyers springs to mind) where the changes are pretty small leave the environment intact. I hear there's some choice trout around Foyers - if you can beat the ospreys to it.

[XemaSab]

11. It really depends on where you live

Here in California, we've condemned virtually every major river in the state in the name of water storage.

Climate change WITHOUT dams HAS to be better than climate change WITH dams, which is what we're facing.

And there isn't enough off-channel or on-channel storage capacity to eliminate the use of hydrocarbons for the population of the state.

[Dead_Parrot]

14. Well, that's one of the nice things about pumped hydro...

...it doesn't mean plugging a major river, or even using an existing lake: If you've got the terrain you can build it from scratch, and it only takes a little water to keep topped up. Ffestiniog was more or less created that way - both the upper and lower levels were created with dams, but not sited on rivers: rainfall keeps the system topped up, although they probably lost a stream or two in the process. The Yaburu plant goes a step futher, pumping seawater up to a reservoir - and most of the coast from SF to Vancouver is the right sort of shape for that, if geology and ecology permit.

Which they don't, of course, and I agree there isn't nearly enough storage potential to cover the energy needs of the western seaboard. But pumped hydro is relatively benign as energy systems go, and I'd like to think we'd put in as much as is practicable before hitting the alternatives.

[dbackjon]

17. No - neither

[kristopher]

12. Shouldn't you learn what you are talking about before you condemn it?

Pumped hydro - google it.

[Fledermaus]

9. ??? 53% of the population lives in a state with pumped storage!

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/table1_15_b.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population

Perhaps you have some information to back up your other claims?

[NNadir]

10. Don't count on it.

[kristopher]

13. What does that have to do with anything???

Once more your superior intellect leaves me dumbfounded. I don't understand your meaning; spell it out for me please.

[Fledermaus]

15. As usual, you can't back up any of your claims.

It is extremely limited in relation to needs.

Unfortunately, the "exploitable resource size" (that's the amount that can be developed with economic, environmental and political constraints considered) is only a small fraction of the amount of storage needed for a renewable grid.

[kristopher]

16. Are the things you posted in #9

Are the things you posted in #9 what you use to try and determine whether what I said was true or not?