VW to join Toyota, GM with 2010 plug-in Hybrid

[RedEarth]

The German government announced it will be helping to fund VW’s plug-in hybrid development program with 15 million euros. VM aims for a 2010 vehicle with 31 miles of all-electric range. VW head Martin Winterkorn said that while petrol or diesel powered cars would be around for some time to come, “the future belongs to all-electric cars.” According to autoblog, the Twin Drive uses a 82-hp electric motor and a 2.0L turbodiesel producing 122 hp.

VW recently signed a deal with Sanyo, which is aggressively ramping up automotive lithium-ion battery production. It expects the hybrid and plug-in hybrid markets to be 4 to 4.5 million vehicles by 2015, and aims to capture 40% of this market. Sanyo uses a mixture of Ni, Mn, and Co for the positive electrode, thereby producing a safer battery that exhibits power retention ratio of 80% or higher after 10,000 cycles (10-15 years in a hybrid vehicle).

Last week, Daimler announced it would bring an electric car to market in 2010.

http://climateprogress.org/2008/06/28/vw-to-join-toyota-gm-with-2010-plug-in-hybrid/

[loveable liberal]

1. The sooner the Middle East is irrelevant, the better.

[Captain Angry]

2. They are irrelevant.

We buy our oil from Canada and Mexico.

But your point is well taken. The sooner that oil is no longer king, the better.

[OKIsItJustMe]

6. You're dreaming

If the Middle East stopped producing oil tomorrow, we wouldn't be able to buy oil from Canada and Mexico.

[Captain Angry]

11. That is true.

My point was that there are a lot of people that think that we are getting EVERYTHING from the middle east. How many times do we hear idiots on the news that are saying we shouldn't be beholden to third world dictators? I wonder what the Canadians think when they hear that. :-)

The less oil we consume, the better. We'll reduce imports from all over the place, which includes the middle east.

So, I seized on a nuance and missed the bigger point.

[OKIsItJustMe]

12. Where our oil comes from

Highlights from a table (follow the link for more.) In short, almost half our oil imports come from OPEC countries, and less than one third from Canada and Mexico combined. We import more from Saudi Arabia than we do from Mexico.


(Figures are in 1,000's of barrels/month.)

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbbl_m.htm

                      ...  April, 2008
All Countries         ...    397,556
...
OPEC*                 ...    187,870
...
  Iraq                ...     20,383
...
  Saudi Arabia        ...     43,867
...
Non OPEC*             ...    209,686
...
  Canada              ...     76,019
...
  Mexico              ...     40,918
...

[Captain Angry]

15. Interesting. I always look at the numbers sorted by country, not by membership.

But #1 is still Canada, and #3 is still Mexico. Saudi is only 10% more than Mexico.

As I've said in numerous threads though, we need to get off of as much oil as we can. I don't care where it comes from as long as we stop using it. By 2010-2012, I'd like to see a PHEV or fully electric vehicle that can replace my Escape Hybrid. Capacity and ability to deal with going through awful weather in the mountains means the other hybrids made available so far don't cut it.

Thanks for the link.

[Eurobabe]

3. Good!

When our lease is up on our company car, we'll be looking for an electric vehicle.

[gateley]

4. How long do we have to hear the word "hybrid" when it comes to

the future of our vehicles? Granted, 2010 is just around the corner, but we gotta start looking past the combustion engine.

IF GM was able to make the Electric Car once, why can't we be pursuing that route now?


EDIT - if I'm going to rant, it's better if I use actual words instead of making them up.

[robinlynne]

5. Ask BUsh/.Cheney.

[OKIsItJustMe]

7. Because hybrids are cheaper to build

The battery packs on an all-electric vehicle are cost-prohibitive at this time.

[gateley]

9. Well, okay, but I sure hope we're pursuing that avenue and looking toward

the future -- not just viewing a plug-in hybrid as the answer to all our problems.

[OKIsItJustMe]

13. Absolutely!

Most auto manufacturers see us moving either to all-electric or hydrogen-electric vehicles in the long term.

The hybrid and "Extended Range Electric Vehicles" are just interim technologies.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/05/news/companies/bigoil_hydrogen/index.htm

BP, GM see hydrogen in their future

Companies agree that renewable energy is the future fuel of choice, but pursue a variety of options in the meantime.

By Steve Hargreaves, CNNMoney.com staff writer
March 5 2008: 7:50 AM EST

WASHINGTON, D.C. (CNNMoney.com) -- Top executives of BP and General Motors Corp., two of the world's largest corporations, outlined on Tuesday their visions for the future of renewable energy.

They came to the same bottom line: Hydrogen will likely fuel the cars of the future, although it could take 50 years to get there. Until then, each company will pursue different strategies for developing new energy sources.

...

"Relying on the internal combustion alone is probably not going to get us there," said Robert Babik, director of emissions, environment, energy and safety policy at General Motors (GM, Fortune 500). "The key is to let electrification of the vehicle play a critical role."

...

The E-Flex is a vehicle with an electric motor that also has an on-board electricity generator to charge the batteries on long trips or other times when the vehicle can't be plugged into an electric outlet. The generator could either be a conventional gasoline engine, an engine that runs on biofuel or, eventually, a bank of hydrogen fuel cells that Babik said could be the fuel of choice 50 years from now.

...

http://news.mongabay.com/2008/0305-fuel_cells.html

Toyota, GM: Hydrogen fuels cells are not viable

mongabay.com
March 5, 2008

Executives from General Motors Corp. and Toyota Motor cast doubts yesterday about the viability of hydrogen fuel cells for mass-market production in the near term, reports The Wall Street Journal. The executives said electric cars will be a better way to cut emissions and improve fuel efficiency.

Speaking at the Geneva auto show, GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz told reporters that advances in lithium-ion batteries will enable electric cars to drive up to 300 miles without recharging, making them more attractive to the mass market. He added that fuel cells are too expensive for mainstream use.

"If we get lithium-ion to 300 miles, then you need to ask yourself, Why do you need fuel cells?" Lutz was quoted as saying. "We are nowhere where we need to be on the costs curve" for fuel-cell vehicles.

Separately Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe echoed the sentiment, saying that costs for fuel cells remain high and the infrastructure needed to distribute hydrogen is not in place.

...

[ElectricGrid]

8. Open your eyes.

[gateley]

10. I'm willing to, if you'd explain to me what you mean. nt

[OKIsItJustMe]

14. Why did Toyota kill the electric car? Slow sales

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-6153394-7.html

January 25, 2007 12:33 PM PST

Why did Toyota kill the electric car? Slow sales

Posted by Michael Kanellos

There are a lot of theories about why large auto manufacturers killed off their electric cars in the '90s. GM came out with one. Ford did as well, and so did Toyota.

Some believe oil companies pressured the car manufacturers to kill the electric car lines. Others have said that once the legislative mandates got weakened, the manufacturers lost interest.

Mary Nickerson, national marketing manager for Toyota, has a different take. Customers didn't want it.

"The Rav4 EV had a 100-mile range. That range was not sufficient for most people in the marketplace," she said during the Clean Tech Investor Summit which took place this week in Palm Desert, Calif. "If it is the only vehicle in your garage, it is not enough for a typical American household."

...