Xpost: California wants to control home thermostats (Hmmm)

[Dead_Parrot]

SAN FRANCISCO: The conceit in the 1960s show "The Outer Limits" was that outside forces had taken control of your television set.

Next year in California, state regulators are likely to have the emergency power to control individual thermostats, sending temperatures up or down through a radio-controlled device that will be required in new or substantially modified houses and buildings to manage electricity shortages.

The proposed rules are contained in a document circulated by the California Energy Commission, which for more than three decades has set state energy efficiency standards for home appliances, like water heaters, air conditioners and refrigerators.

The changes would allow utilities to adjust customers' preset temperatures when the price of electricity is soaring. Customers could override the utilities' suggested temperatures. But in emergencies, the utilities could override customers' wishes.

Article at http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/11/america/calif.php
Original LBN thread at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3136767#3136821

What caught my eye was the responses, many of which seemed horrified at the prospect of being forced to use less power by the people that make it: I had to check I hadn't stumbled into FR by mistake. Kudos to Boreal for trying to insert some sanity, BTW.

Anyway, I thought in the light of this thread it might be interesting to discuss smart grids, demand side management, if having your A/C tweaked is only one step away from room 101, and whether (given these are the responses from liberals) there is any fucking hope.

For the record, although hydro is waaaay more reliable that wind or solar, I'm now well used to having the power company remotely switch off my hot water tank, office heating, or even the entire house if there's no juice. It's annoying, but it beats building another fossil fuel power station or having brown-outs in the hospital.

[Double T]

1. Many Americans have no self control or feel the responsibility to conserve energy.

Inevitably the government will take control of our ALL of our energy usage for vehicles and homes and have mandatory control over the number of offspring allowed by each individual, which will be no more than 2 throughout a person's lifetime.

[rodeodance]

2. I think it is a good idea. I have neighbor who keeps temp very high so she

can dress loosely as she says--shorts t-shirts in the winter.
then she opens a winder if gets too hot--NOT shut down temp.

you are right. there are too too many irresponsible people

[greenman3610]

3. the controversy is right wing nonsense.

this is not a means to enforce frugality, or intrude in people's lives.
"Smart" appliances, such as refrigerators, will be, in effect,
energy storage devices that will allow the occasionally
stressed grid to take a breather.
Your "smart" electric meter, will simply allow your fridge to
shut off for a few moments, say, the time in which the temp would
rise insignificantly from 26 to 27 degrees inside.
This action, rolled across a whole grid, and multiplied many
times, would amount to a huge savings in energy, and allow
great cost savings by avoiding the need for new generating
capacity that is only used to meet once in a year "peak" emergencies.

The same technology is going to allow you to have solar cells
on your roof and sell the power back to the grid, to
power your car with electricity, and sell your unused
battery capacity back to the grid, potentially earning
thousands of dollars per year for electric car owners.

The Orwellian analogies are simply playing to the deepest
Dittohead ignoramuses.

[Dead_Parrot]

6. And yet, it's people on the left coming up with the Orwellian analogies

at least in LBN. I agree that there's nothing wrong with the technology, but it seems there's a long way to go before the image comes right

[depakid]

7. Same on the earlier thread in GD

The vast majority of reponses were either paranoid, self-indulgent or reflected the wasteful, devil may care type attitudes that characterize so many in America these days.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2664211&mesg_id=2664343

Apparently, it's going to take another couple rounds of rolling blackouts- or a widespead failure on the Western Grid for these folks to get a clue that they're in a tragedy of the commons situation.

[Dead_Parrot]

9. Oh dear.

I'd missed that thread. Now I'm really depressed. :banghead:

Still, it's nice to see the spirit of pointing-the-finger-at-anyone-else is alive and well. It's just like the Kyoto negotiations, but with smilies.

[NickB79]

4. Honestly, if this scares some DU'ers

They're in a for a world of hurt in the next decade. This is honestly one of the least draconian measures I'm expecting to see put into place as we progress further down the peak fossil slope and up the climate change slope.

And yeah, those responses make me wonder if we have any hope as well. I mean, Al Gore is a rock star on DU for his work on An Inconvenient Truth, but it's like his message still hasn't sunk into the minds of most DU'ers.

[The2ndWheel]

5. The increasing control of the state and the corporation over every aspect of life

It's going to be a fun century.

[kestrel91316]

8. Before they do this they ought to institute severe penalties for leaving

doors and windows of homes and businesses wide open when the heat or AC is on. I KID YOU NOT, this is all the rage in Los Angeles, land of 119 degree summer days. The excuse is always "we wanted fresh air" when I complain to the guilty. I'd support hard prison time and $1 million fines for this crap.

[Dead_Parrot]

10. We could send them to live with the Maasai for a month.

A month should be long enough for them to lean how to deal with that sort of heat without so much as a water cooler.

It should also be long enough to rip out thier A/C and nail the bugger's windows shut.

Although, I'm guessing the local jails don't have decent A/C or fully opening windows, so your option would have a similar effect without incuring the air miles. :)

As an aside, I'm impressed there is fresh air in LA...

[bananas]

11. They got rid of the mandatory override

http://nctimes.com/articles/2008/01/11/news/breaking/9_02_1801_11_08.txt

Energy Commision to remove mandatory thermostat control

By: BRADLEY J. FIKES -- North County Times

The California Energy Commission will remove a proposed mandatory control feature from thermostats required in new homes, Claudia Chandler, the commission's assistant executive director, said Friday.

The control feature, specified in an upcoming revision to building codes, would have required so-called Programmable Communicating Thermostats to be installed with the air conditioning systems of new homes. These thermostats would have deferred in emergencies to a radio signal broadcast by utilities, removing control from customers.

After public protests, Chandler said, the commission decided to remove the mandatory provision from the proposal for the "Title 24" energy efficiency standards. Staff will make the recommendation at the energy commission's Jan. 30 meeting, and the new proposal would be taken up at a later meeting.

"The consumer or customer can overrride the emergency control," with the change, Chandler said. The system would notify customers of an emergency. If the customer did nothing, utilities could reset the thermostat to a higher temperature, but no higher than 88 degrees.

If customers don't want to give control of the thermostat to the utility, they can override the control, Chandler said.

[phantom power]

12. On some level, isn't the choice between planned versus unplanned blackouts?

I mean, whether people like it or not, the electric utility can shut off their power. Maybe somebody should point out that this way, just their A/C and/or hot water goes off, and I assume with at least some warning. Or, they can pretend they're in "control," and just have the electric utility shut off entire grid subsections, on an emergency basis with no warning, in which case their entire house will lose power.