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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 11:40 AM
Original message
Cities in the deindustrial future
My urban center is on the "definitely-fucked-regardless" list. Natch.

Go further back and you’ll find the same thing in every secular millennialist movement the United States has seen since the dawn of the 20th century. Whether the apocalypse du jour is nuclear war, pandemic disease, racial conflict, Communist takeover, fascist police state takeover, the imminent arrival of Antichrist, or what have you, the accepted way to deal with it is to flee to some isolated location in the mountains and wait for the rubble to stop bouncing. I’ve tried to challenge the kneejerk application of this same way of thinking to the consequences of peak oil in a number of previous posts, but there’s another side to the picture – the widespread notion that cities in the aftermath of peak oil will be deathtraps by definition.

(...)

Step outside the potent complex of cultural factors that make a flight to rural isolation seem like the obvious response to peak oil, and things take on a very different shape. Now it’s true, of course, that some cities are much too big and much too badly sited to survive the end of the age of cheap abundant energy. Los Angeles is probably the poster child for these abandoned ruins of the not too distant future, though most of the large cities of the Southwest could give it a run for its money – it’s easy to imagine tourists of the future wandering among the fallen skyscrapers of Phoenix or Santa Fe the way today’s tourists visit Teotihuacan or Chaco Canyon. Equally, it’s hard to imagine that Manhattan or inner city Chicago will become anything in the future but vast salvage yards for metals and other resources. Yet it’s crucial to note that the vast majority of America’s cities do not fall into these categories.

Imagine, by contrast, a city of between 20,000 and 200,000 people in a mostly agricultural region; there are hundreds of such cities scattered across the North American map, so this shouldn’t be hard. In the sort of overnight collapse imagined by too many writers on peak oil these days, that could still be a very difficult place to be – but as I’ve pointed out more than once in this blog, an overnight collapse is very nearly the least likely way the downslope of Hubbert’s peak might play out. In the far more plausible scenario of uneven decline and slow depopulation spread out over many decades, such a city would have immense advantages over a rural lifeboat community. Located within easy reach of surrounding farmland, stocked with raw materials in the form of surplus buildings, cars, and the like, and a large enough work force to allow division of labor and the production of specialty goods, the city could easily import food and other necessities by supplying trade goods to the nearby countryside, the way cities in preindustrial times have always done.

(...)

Historically speaking, this pattern – the largely independent city-state surrounded by its own agricultural hinterland – is one of the most common foundations for urban society, and civilizations that manage a broader level of geographical integration routinely fall back to the city-state pattern in times of disintegration. Some variant of it is very likely in the North America of the deindustrial future. Some areas of the continent lack the agricultural and resource base to support such a pattern; others will likely be in the path of armed invasions or mass migration, in which case all bets are off; the fate of Roman Britain shows what can happen when an urban society is overwhelmed by armed and hostile migrants (though Roman Gaul, which passed through a similar experience, came through it with a surprising number of its cities intact, and most of those are still viable urban centers today). Elsewhere, though – especially east of the Mississippi and west of the Cascade crest, where rainfall and soil quality combine to make sustainable organic agriculture a good bet for the foreseeable future – urban centers are likely to play a significant role through the approaching deindustrial Dark Ages and on into the successor cultures to come.

http://www.energybulletin.net/33280.html
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. Exurban valley communities
The Lehigh valley (Allentown-Bethlehem) (PA)

The Adirondacks (NY)

The Sacramento valley (Sac'to, Chico, Marysville) (CA)

The Piedmont range (NC)

Athens, GA, and environs

The Willamette valley (OR)

Feel free to add to the list, by all means.

--p!
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sillyphoenix Donating Member (136 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. erm...
Edited on Thu Aug-09-07 12:17 PM by sillyphoenix
Actually, the Finger Lakes region of NY would be better than the ADKs. Adirondack soil is terrible for farming, but Finger Lakes soil is quite good. (Plus it's the best area in the US for growing grapes (mmm, wine...) outside of the Napa Valley :D)

Also, anywhere along the Mississippi would also be a good location, provided the location was protected from floods. There are a several reasons why preindustrial cities sprang up along rivers, trade and good soil being two of them.
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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. I dunno. Something tells me that...
>>it’s easy to imagine tourists of the future wandering among the fallen skyscrapers of Phoenix or Santa Fe the way today’s tourists visit Teotihuacan or Chaco Canyon<<

...the 4- or 5-story "skyscrapers" of Santa Fe aren't gonna leave much in the way of spectacular ruins.

Honestly, can't this writer even do a little elementary editing for absurdity before putting forth an otherwise valid hypothesis?

exasperatedly,
Bright
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I suspect that wasn't meant to be taken literally.
I think his comment on scrap-salvaging is more realistic.
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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
5. What to do? Stay or go?
Edited on Thu Aug-09-07 12:23 PM by GliderGuider
I occasionally get asked that by people I've been able to infect with the Peak Oil Wakeup virus. My advice is to sit tight for now. It's not at all clear how this will unfold, and any decision you make right now has at least a 50% chance (maybe even a 90% chance) of being wrong. Plus staying where you know people and are part of some sort of community has enormous advantages.

I have a choice between staying in a human-scale neighborhood of a moderately large city (~800K) or moving back to my boyhood home - a 50 acre farm ten miles outside a city of 300K. Despite the romantic attraction of building a self-sufficient intentional community there, since I know nothing about farming and have no friends left in the area I think I'll stay put and deal with whatever comes.
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phantom power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I grapple with the same riddle.
We happen to own a few acres of land out in the PA countryside, with some farmable pasture, some woods and even a stream. House with a wood stove, etc. Not a bad substrate for setting up a post-industrial homestead with our extended family.

Furthermore, if we chose to, we could sell our house here in AZ, and pay off all mortages, and be living there debt free. At current housing prices. So, my dangerous game is, of course, how long to wait. Wait too long, and perhaps we get caught in some economic phase-change, and miss the window for selling out.

As you can imagine, I often find myself supremely tempted to pull the trigger on this plan, especially after a day of reading many hatrack posts, and/or the Economy forum.

And yet... jump the gun too early, perhaps I cause needless family/career disruption, loss of a (currently) agreeable lifestyle, and maybe end up in a place that is just as ultimately screwed, for unforeseeable reasons.

Whee.
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enid602 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
7.  Los Angeles
"Los Angeles is probably the poster child for these abandoned ruins." With 700 mostly new miles of urban rail, and a median year-round temp of 72 degrees, I would think the Los Angeles Basin would be a good place to hang out in the post-Bush fallout. I currently live in Phoenix, and cannot imagine having to live without transportation or air conditioning.
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NMDemDist2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-09-07 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. well, I've made the move already
to a place with agriculture, water and salt locally available

if you wonder why I added salt, this is a fascinating read

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41MM087P13L._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg

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