Does anyone have the distinct feeling that

[CLANG]

[Warpy]

1. The one shining difference betwen now and 1931

is that old folks are still getting their social security checks. That doesn't seem like much, but that will continue to support enough of the consumer marketplace that we might escape with a deep recession if Obama's team does everything right and can ram it past the GOP and Blue Dogs in Congress.

[CLANG]

2. I'd like to be optimistic, but my sense of things

is that we are entering a new dark age, which will start with world economic collapse, more wars, more disease, and more starvation. I just hope I can keep my sense of humor about me.

[The Brethren]

7. I would very much like to optimistic too,

but more than anything I am a realist.

My optimism, as strange as it might sound, is that I know that economies, including financial "bottoms", are part of the cycle involving nationwide economics. Which tells me, as the old expression goes: "this too shall pass". However, since there are no guarantees that since we made it through the Great Depression for ex. that even if it got that low that we would get through it again.

Each time period shares similarities, but there are other factors involved involving our era. The end result so to speak is unpredictable. Aside from the record number of job losses, and companies closing, we are also dealing a serious problem with economic "competition" along with the still high cost of living/inflation. Ideally, stopping the collapse in our economy and hopefully turning it around must involve a number of these things working together. It doesn't mean that increased jobs won't help us....it certainly will, but other factors must come into play as to help us bounce back and to help keep it that way ....at least for period of time.

Some things to also consider involving The Great Depression is that it took years for our country to bounce back from it which involved poverty and starvation like we have not seen yet. And I pray we don't. And during it's come-back, our country started at one point to decline backwards into the depression again. However, we were able to pull ourselves out of it again towards recovery. Also, timing was very helpful then. WWII has been noted in history as actually having helped us to finally end the Depression by all the jobs it created here at home. Along with this was the amazing American spirit of so many people working together to try and help our soldiers, but also to try and help our economy. In contrast, the 2 wars we have now, are not helping us financially, they've drained us instead.

Realistically, I believe it is not clear yet just how bad it will get and if we will recover. But I believe, no matter what our party affiliations are, etc., that if we as Americans work together as best we can, we will deal things.

[CLANG]

10. I agree that "this too will pass"...

but that doesn't mean millions won't meanwhile suffer, or die, and that people we know may be among them.

[GliderGuider]

12. We have a psychological difficulty in dealing with this

We in the first world are very much out of touch with large-scale suffering. Such suffering has been the lot of humanity since our time here began, but we got lucky and large groups of us were able to hold the suffering at bay for a time. In fact we held it at bay for so long we forgot that our present happy state was the exception, and started to understand it as our natural right.

We are about to get reacquainted with the true natural state of human existence. There will still be happiness and joy in peoples' lives, and it will be felt all the more keenly in its contrast with suffering. Think of it as a restoration of the natural balance of joy and suffering. Yin and Yang.

[The Brethren]

13. I know, and that is a large part

of what is upsetting me with everything going on with our economy and our government. Every number on someone's current stat sheet of lost jobs, companies, homes, etc. is a person. I hate to say this, but I think it is going to get much worse then right now before it gets better.

It's already in motion, it would take a well planned and thought out emergency plan from our government to actually address just losses for those who are quickly running out of money, and will probably not find another job (or one close to what they need to cover expenses) for awhile. Since Nov. on, friends and family of mine have told me some of them were either fired due to cut-backs, others are lucky to still have their jobs. However, they were told by spring at the latest they'll be laid off. At least some are lucky they were given more notice then many others.

Reports are showing up on the news daily now that unemployment is rising at a record rate. And you know there is a percentage of folks who won't show up on any unemployment records, for ex., those they didn't qualify for that program -- such as workers who had worked 3 mths or less depending on their local laws and not qualify. Which means they don't "count" according to the stats. I don't think there are any ideal answers right now that our government can suddenly pull of of it's sleeve that will fix everything, but something needs to happen. I also hope more people who have jobs still will try if they can to help their families, friends, other people with food, shelter - if possible, etc.

[CLANG]

14. I'm sick and tired of these "experts" predicting that

we'll start recovering later this year, or early next, blah blah blah...

NO WE WON'T!! This is the Silver Streak, the driver is dead and we are heading for Central Station at 100 miles an hour!

Sooner or later we will have to rise up and put a stop to the looting.

[The Brethren]

15. That's just it. No one knows exactly what

is going to happen. They're working on projections and hopes of what will actually happen.

Ideally, if the current stimulus plan works wonders and the economy makes a turn around that would be incredible. That's presuming it does, and in my opinion that's a big presumption. But in all fairness and trying to be optimistic, let's say it does. However, according to what I am reading the plan won't actually start showing noticeable improvements till about another year and half to 2 yrs. depending on whose analysis of it your looking at. In the meantime, that leaves at least a yr. and half...or more, of time for things to stay as bad as they are. Or if our economy continues on the same downward path for an even longer duration it will then create major changes financially to our country on even larger scale. Either way, in that time period it means that thousands and thousands of people will be directly affected by what is happening...assuming things don't improve during that yr. and half or so by themselves.

And if the stimulus plan doesn't work or takes a lot longer to help, then the downward spiral will start feeding upon itself.

One recent small flag, to me at least, was while I was reading in the local paper earlier this week that in my state rental vacancies have clearly dropped in figures. Not because more renters are suddenly buying homes, but because more renters are having a hard time paying their rent and are moving in with other people to help with costs. The only rental areas in, state-wide, vacancies that are holding their own for occupancies are 1 bedroom apts. and "efficiency apts." (studio apts).

A few months ago, it was reported, state-wide, the opposite -- that rentals of all types were going up. Namely because of the rate of foreclosures and job cuts. So folks were maturely downsizing their expenses and trying to find something they could afford.

This recent change however shows that the job cuts are affecting people more, even in the past few months. It also shows that people are getting closer to fewer options financially. In other words, what happens if there are more cut-backs, or companies closing, creating more unemployment and then the friends, or relatives, who've moved into together to "get by" are suddenly having an even harder time paying for whatever house or apt. they're sharing, along with their families? And if say, it comes down to just one bread-winner in those situations paying for that home as well as utilities for a group of people, what if they then lose their jobs? The economy is declining faster then many may have thought whether or not everyone is paying attention to it.

And I hope it changes before we do hit Central Station head on.

[sandnsea]

3. And food stamps, housing vouchers,

energy assistance, unemployment insurance, etc. I've thought those programs have kept the bottom from falling out for a long time, we'll see how well it holds up in a real crisis.

[panader0]

4. None of the above

I'm having the time of my life. I made less last year than ever. My 3 kids are 16, 16 & 17. I have almost no work (construction). I am a business owner (very small), so unemployment benefits are not available. All of my friends are out of work too. But, I just had a coupla hits on the ganga. So, all is good.

[CLANG]

5. I wish you continued bliss!

[Dumak]

6. The continuing massive disparity

of wealth will see to it that whatever the Democrats do now is merely a slight band-aid and the working people will continue to be abused.

[clixtox]

8. Exactly!

Until the extant, dysfunctional oligarchic systems crumble from their overwhelming corruption, or are cast out through a rising up of the criminally exploited. Until that glorious day the working people, the poor, even the middle classes will continue to be just rubes/suckers ripe and ready to be ripped off, without recourse.

We are doomed and my vote is to expect anarchy, it is the best option we have. The present reality is a result of corruption, greed and hypocrisy and the forces aligned to maintain the status quo are not going to allow any significant change, let alone any improvement in our sorry situation.

Just like the teenager in the ghetto's best option to make money is to stand on the corner and sell drugs. Risking their life, their freedom and their soul because they have been short-changed every step of the way since birth. Poor health care, lousy education, if any, miserable environment, poverty, broken homes, ubiquitous crime, cruel authorities and police, unequal justice, etc., etc...

Our culture is beyond sick and disgusting.

It is unimaginably horrible.

Really!

[GliderGuider]

9. My shaky knees come from understanding that this is not just an economic and financial crisis.

We are in a crisis convergence zone. Along with the financial clusterfuck we are facing: the depletion of a wide variety of resources (oil, fish, metals, ground water, soil fertility); ecological problems like climate change, ocean acidification and biodiversity loss; and an increasing complexity and brittleness in our global social and political systems. These are all happening at the same time. They all intersect, interact and amplify each other. Trying to solve any of them usually makes some others worse. They are all happening within the same time scale -- they are happening now and will continue to gain momentum over the next decade.

The convergence appears inescapable. What we face is not a problem, it's better thought of as a predicament because of the lack of a solution. That implies that our response to it has to be orthogonal to the problem space. This is why people like Carolyn Baker, Joanna Macy, Sharon Astyk, the folks at Awakening the Dreamer, and I, are all advocating a deeply personal, even spiritual, response to the coming transition.

From one perspective we're fucked. From another we have in our grasp the greatest opportunity for change ever presented to a civilization.

[CLANG]

11. Very nice post

I fear the end results of control and consumption. Our economic system, which is based on the need for ever expanding consumption - a finite resource model, is a sure dead-end. Also, our economic system is based on control of resources, which is the primary cause of war.